CPP
Active member
Can you explain your comment:what:
Are you trying to say, matching the equipment, the room and the quality of music played creates the sound a person wants to hear based on their hearing and their likes. Is that what you mean ?
Ayre MX-R Twenty vs Pass Labs Xs-150 ? ...... Thoughts ? .......
- Thread starter joeinid
- Start date
Can you explain your comment:what:
Are you trying to say, matching the equipment, the room and the quality of music played creates the sound a person wants to hear based on their hearing and their likes. Is that what you mean ?
What I said: I think and work with properties. My focus is always on the properties of each individual tool I use in a set. When I want to change a part in a set of a client I listen to the overwhole sound and the image. I bring in other properties which are not there in a set to make it complete. Most other shops try things out and hope for the best. When I am at a show and I ask to distributers what the different properties are of each individual tool, they often don't know. This says it all. I started with music and audio when I was 6. I go a Philips tuberecorder of my dad and started to make recordings of the radio. Till I was 19 I spend allmost all my money on audio and music. Music is my biggest passion. And audio is the way you can listen to the thing you love most. When I started to work in audio in 1998 I started to test as much as possible. When you test all the time you learn and become aware of all the different properties. This makes audio a lot more easy to understand. When a client sends a list and I know the stuff he owns I can discribe the overwhole sound and the way the image is build.l
I give you a good example: At shows and also at many shops were they sell Pass Labs the often use MIT and Shunyata. Often it is based on the same distributer or a shop who sells them togheter. But audio does not work like that. Why? Because my personal opinion is is that Pass Labs can create a wide and deep stage, you hear all the layers of the lowest freq, you get a wide palette of colours in the mid freq and the different sounds of all instruments. But......you need the right cables to create what I call a realisic and intimate individual focus of instruments and voices. I was amazed how small and direct the sound of a voice and instrument i during an intimate classical concert. This part has become very important for what I call total sound.
When you compare a brand like MIT and Shunyata with Audioquest and Kimber the differerences are huge. In the last 5 years I often told Desmond of Pass Labs that they need to create a more intimate sound within the wide and deep stage Pass labs create. He said to me that the .8 series give a much more palpable image compared to the .5 series. I didn't listen to the .8 series, but I believe him. Maybe others can say something about this part. The XS will have the same difference. I know exactley the properties of MIT and Shunyata. That is why I would never use them for Pass labs. Because seen threw my eyes and tests give the same outcome it is incomplete. I often say to the distributer andf shops who sell it the same thing: instruments and voices are too big in proportion. I hate this a lot to be honest. Because you loose an inmportant part. When music is more intimate the level of emotion is a lot higher. I love classical music but only with instruments. But when I listend to a female voice during a concert at the house of a friend I was fully moved by her voice cause of the direct and intimate focus. I thought; this is how I want a voice out of my system.
I use Purist Audio LE powercables and Audioquest Wel Signature xlr cables and the Audioquest Redwood 2013 version.( about 37% silver, 63% copper) When I compare this configuration with MIT or Shunyata the outcome in differences is huge. For me it is difficult to understand why you would buy these cables. I have won all batlles against MIT cables in 2 years of time. This says a lot. I am only interested in the best results, the rest doesn't matter at all. The best and most convncing sound in audio always wins.
So what are the differences: I have a lot more resolution, details which are not there with the MIT and Shunyata. In less than 10 seconds I can listen to all different parts you judge a system for. But most people can't, so what I do is I take a part of Total sound and ask my client to focus on this. At the end he understands all different parts. Instruments and voices are a lot smaller and realistic in proportion compared to MIT and Shunyata. The silver I use gives a much more palpable and physical image. My combo has a lot more speed comapared to both MIT and Shunyata. The level of black is a lot higher. When I invite people to my home the often say: this is how you want your sound. I make it complete, this means more emotion so you get a higher endresult. The mid freq. are a lot more open than with MIT and Shunyata. When I play a cello you hear more different layers. But the biggest difference is how much more palpable the image is. I am a perfectionist and that means only the best is good enough. In 16 years of time I auditioned a lot. All the good things I use for my total sound.
Music is all about emotion, and an intimate and realictic individual focus is a very important part for that!!
When you compare a brand like MIT and Shunyata with Audioquest and Kimber the differerences are huge. In the last 5 years I often told Desmond of Pass Labs that they need to create a more intimate sound within the wide and deep stage Pass labs create. He said to me that the .8 series give a much more palpable image compared to the .5 series. I didn't listen to the .8 series, but I believe him. Maybe others can say something about this part. The XS will have the same difference. I know exactley the properties of MIT and Shunyata. That is why I would never use them for Pass labs. Because seen threw my eyes and tests give the same outcome it is incomplete. I often say to the distributer andf shops who sell it the same thing: instruments and voices are too big in proportion. I hate this a lot to be honest. Because you loose an inmportant part. When music is more intimate the level of emotion is a lot higher. I love classical music but only with instruments. But when I listend to a female voice during a concert at the house of a friend I was fully moved by her voice cause of the direct and intimate focus. I thought; this is how I want a voice out of my system.
I use Purist Audio LE powercables and Audioquest Wel Signature xlr cables and the Audioquest Redwood 2013 version.( about 37% silver, 63% copper) When I compare this configuration with MIT or Shunyata the outcome in differences is huge. For me it is difficult to understand why you would buy these cables. I have won all batlles against MIT cables in 2 years of time. This says a lot. I am only interested in the best results, the rest doesn't matter at all. The best and most convncing sound in audio always wins.
So what are the differences: I have a lot more resolution, details which are not there with the MIT and Shunyata. In less than 10 seconds I can listen to all different parts you judge a system for. But most people can't, so what I do is I take a part of Total sound and ask my client to focus on this. At the end he understands all different parts. Instruments and voices are a lot smaller and realistic in proportion compared to MIT and Shunyata. The silver I use gives a much more palpable and physical image. My combo has a lot more speed comapared to both MIT and Shunyata. The level of black is a lot higher. When I invite people to my home the often say: this is how you want your sound. I make it complete, this means more emotion so you get a higher endresult. The mid freq. are a lot more open than with MIT and Shunyata. When I play a cello you hear more different layers. But the biggest difference is how much more palpable the image is. I am a perfectionist and that means only the best is good enough. In 16 years of time I auditioned a lot. All the good things I use for my total sound.
Music is all about emotion, and an intimate and realictic individual focus is a very important part for that!!
mdkim
New member
:facepalm:
This should be interesting...
This should be interesting...
cmalak
Active member
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2013
- Messages
- 2,304
Bo...what you are saying is that one needs to be aware of how a speaker plays in a room, how an amp drives the speaker, and how the sources, preamp cabling and other accessories all fit together to deliver a "synergistic" (there's that word) sound that approximates one's sonic ideal. Like any system (IT, mechanical, other...), a system's outcome can be greater than the sum of its parts when it is carefully and intelligently designed. System building is a multivariate equation and it is compounded by the fact that we all have different hearing acuity (different brains, ears, tastes...), different rooms, and different gear. For you to presume that people are mistakenly matching gear together, when you don't know what their individual sonic preferences, the characteristics of their rooms, and the "synergy" that they have put together when matching their gear is a bit presumptuous on your part.
I agree with the sentiment of your statement but not necessarily your conclusions. Also, there are many on AS who are gear explorers and who like to try out many different brands and pieces of gear because for them that is part of the appeal of this hobby.
I agree with the sentiment of your statement but not necessarily your conclusions. Also, there are many on AS who are gear explorers and who like to try out many different brands and pieces of gear because for them that is part of the appeal of this hobby.
mep
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2013
- Messages
- 5,075
Excellent post Cyril.
What is the 'absolute' sound? It is like a blueprint of the Original. So what is needed to create this what I call TOTAL SOUND. Which parts needs to be there?
Soundrealism; I want instruments to sound like they sound in real. Sound is very important how it influences your emotion. I love the sound of a violin in real. I hate demos with violins when they sound so different. Another example is when you use a recording with 2 different acoustic guitars. I want to hear exactly the difference between them. For this part I love Pass Labs amps who can do this very precise.
3-Dimensional soundstage; I love those speakers who are able to create a stage what is far behind, beside and even in front of the speaker at the same moment. This gives you the freedom on focussing on every single instrument or voice of the recording. This is priceless. This make listening so much more fun. It gives me a big smile on my face all the time. I want to hear the room were it was recorded. The level of decay makes the image wider and deeper.
A sharp individual focus of instruments and voices. Or what I call intimate sound. Listening to instruments and voices during intimate concerts learned me how small they are in proportion. This part is also very important for the extra emotion it can give. When instruments and voices ( at many shows this mistake is made often) are too big in proportion the distance between you and the music is bigger. There is less emotion and you are not pulled into the music as it should be.
Blacks; The space between the instruments and voices with there acoustic information of the recoding room. The level in blacks make a very big influence in what it does with your emotion. Instruments and voices become so much more apparent. Just like instuments and voices are playing in front of you. You can touch them and point out exactly were they are. The germans use the word; Darstellung.
timing/speed: How better the speed how better the realism in the overwhole sound will become. I had often less acoustic problems when the speed became better. It gives you more different layers of the lowest freq. Every part of the recording becomes so much easier to hear. More details become apparent. Professional roomacoustic measuring gives me the first time of what I call 'Stealth'low freq. This makes the subwoofer fully dissapear. And even the energy of an instrument comes from the place were it was recorded.
resolution; You want to hear as much information/details as possible. But.......the details must be placed at the right place of the recording. Often you can hear lots of details, but you don't know exactly were they come from.
air: you need the air around instruments/voices to hear them loose from eachother. This level in separation makes listeinig to music much more appealing.
a big freq. response; How lower your system goes, how much more information of the recording you can hear. This extra information gives us humans a more emotional feeling then when a system does not go that low. Even if we can hear to 20khz max,higher freq. still influence our brains. Above 20 kHz can make a difference.
articulation of voices; this is a part what got my attention after using professional roomacoustic measuring. This became so much more apparent then I ever could hear. Even at shows and many demos with the most expensive highend it was not this easy to hear. We are talking about word endings like sss,ttt and th. But also the breathing of singers and even the moving of lips.
hights; you want to hear the differences in hights of voices and instruments. When you use the best cables this part becomes so much earier to hear.
Soundrealism; I want instruments to sound like they sound in real. Sound is very important how it influences your emotion. I love the sound of a violin in real. I hate demos with violins when they sound so different. Another example is when you use a recording with 2 different acoustic guitars. I want to hear exactly the difference between them. For this part I love Pass Labs amps who can do this very precise.
3-Dimensional soundstage; I love those speakers who are able to create a stage what is far behind, beside and even in front of the speaker at the same moment. This gives you the freedom on focussing on every single instrument or voice of the recording. This is priceless. This make listening so much more fun. It gives me a big smile on my face all the time. I want to hear the room were it was recorded. The level of decay makes the image wider and deeper.
A sharp individual focus of instruments and voices. Or what I call intimate sound. Listening to instruments and voices during intimate concerts learned me how small they are in proportion. This part is also very important for the extra emotion it can give. When instruments and voices ( at many shows this mistake is made often) are too big in proportion the distance between you and the music is bigger. There is less emotion and you are not pulled into the music as it should be.
Blacks; The space between the instruments and voices with there acoustic information of the recoding room. The level in blacks make a very big influence in what it does with your emotion. Instruments and voices become so much more apparent. Just like instuments and voices are playing in front of you. You can touch them and point out exactly were they are. The germans use the word; Darstellung.
timing/speed: How better the speed how better the realism in the overwhole sound will become. I had often less acoustic problems when the speed became better. It gives you more different layers of the lowest freq. Every part of the recording becomes so much easier to hear. More details become apparent. Professional roomacoustic measuring gives me the first time of what I call 'Stealth'low freq. This makes the subwoofer fully dissapear. And even the energy of an instrument comes from the place were it was recorded.
resolution; You want to hear as much information/details as possible. But.......the details must be placed at the right place of the recording. Often you can hear lots of details, but you don't know exactly were they come from.
air: you need the air around instruments/voices to hear them loose from eachother. This level in separation makes listeinig to music much more appealing.
a big freq. response; How lower your system goes, how much more information of the recording you can hear. This extra information gives us humans a more emotional feeling then when a system does not go that low. Even if we can hear to 20khz max,higher freq. still influence our brains. Above 20 kHz can make a difference.
articulation of voices; this is a part what got my attention after using professional roomacoustic measuring. This became so much more apparent then I ever could hear. Even at shows and many demos with the most expensive highend it was not this easy to hear. We are talking about word endings like sss,ttt and th. But also the breathing of singers and even the moving of lips.
hights; you want to hear the differences in hights of voices and instruments. When you use the best cables this part becomes so much earier to hear.
Testing is one of the nicest things in audio I agree. But when you are aware of the different properties of a tool audio becomes a lot more easy to understand and use. And the endresults are a lot better. When I go to a show I often listen to incomplete sound or mistakes which are made. For me it is often clear what they did wrong. When you are aware of the properties you know how the stage will be build and the overal sound.
Bobby - we welcome dealer participation, but can you add in your signature (settings/signature) that you are a dealer and for what brands? Thanks!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Adrian Low
New member
Like many of you, I've been doing this for a ling time, and if there is anything I know, it is that I cannot tell conclusively what any single component is doing in a foreign system/room. Even changing the component for another (e.g. Amp A vs Amp B) simply tells you that the differences are due to interaction. As an Ayre dealer, I've heard their demos at CES sound awful, TO ME, yet I've also heard virtually the same sound magnificent. Rooms, placement, music selection, AND my mood at the time, play huge roles in the perception. If you really want to know what the component sounds like, in your room, then the only way to know is to borrow/buy it and use it for some extended period. Play the system with different music, at different times to ensure your mood is not a factor.
I once had a client who fought bad traffic to meet me, and when he finally arrived, he was in a bad mood, with a pounding headache. I suggested we go for dinner, relax and just talk. We listened a little, talked about his needs, and we made an appointment for us to bring some stuff to his house. The same system sounded much better to him in his home (though I thought our set up at the store sounded much better, same system).
My 2 cents only, but hopefully worthy of thought.
I once had a client who fought bad traffic to meet me, and when he finally arrived, he was in a bad mood, with a pounding headache. I suggested we go for dinner, relax and just talk. We listened a little, talked about his needs, and we made an appointment for us to bring some stuff to his house. The same system sounded much better to him in his home (though I thought our set up at the store sounded much better, same system).
My 2 cents only, but hopefully worthy of thought.
Myles B. Astor
Active member
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2013
- Messages
- 2,884
:scholar: