Axpona 2015 Pics

Paul - I envy you for methodically conducting your due diligence. However, I am concerned that by the time you make the decision to jump, the new model, something better comes along. All the while you are giving up valuable enjoyable hours of listening.

I know you don't want to listen to the advise of others for an ultimate buying decision and would prefer go it alone and do your homework. I respect that. But again, you have good dealers, you have good, knowledgable friends here, perhaps you can save a little time here and there with their help.

You were hell bent for leather on the Lampizator, even inciting some good natured bantering, and you were all excited about the Sonore i2s capabilities and the PS Audio DirectStream and the Soulution DAC and this digital piece and that digital piece and in the end, found out that its vinyl you really love. So, invest in a killer vinyl rig (Kronos, AMG, etc.) and maybe go lighter on the digital side. Get a nicely priced, nicely featured, nicely sounding DAC like the AYRE QB9-DSD and start listening. :audiophile:
 
FlexibleAudio said:
Thanks Norman. If you have seen one thing from me it would be that I want to develop my system with as little compromise as possible (to my ears) and that I move at the speed of a crippled snail. Oh wait, that's two things.
Click to expand...
There pretty has to be some compromise, because there is always something new and almost always something better. Mike's advice seems spot on to me?
 
I agree too. There will always be something newer and supposedly better. Paul, I say jump in and start enjoying the music.
 
Mike said:
Paul - I envy you for methodically conducting your due diligence. However, I am concerned that by the time you make the decision to jump, the new model, something better comes along. All the while you are giving up valuable enjoyable hours of listening.

I know you don't want to listen to the advise of others for an ultimate buying decision and would prefer go it alone and do your homework. I respect that. But again, you have good dealers, you have good, knowledgable friends here, perhaps you can save a little time here and there with their help.

You were hell bent for leather on the Lampizator, even inciting some good natured bantering, and you were all excited about the Sonore i2s capabilities and the PS Audio DirectStream and the Soulution DAC and this digital piece and that digital piece and in the end, found out that its vinyl you really love. So, invest in a killer vinyl rig (Kronos, AMG, etc.) and maybe go lighter on the digital side. Get a nicely priced, nicely featured, nicely sounding DAC like the AYRE QB9-DSD and start listening. :audiophile:
Click to expand...



Agree and for the very same reason I'm on the fence , too much , too quickly ........ :skeptical:
 
FlexibleAudio said:
I simply found even the best digital has a bite, a hard edge that I did not find in analog. It did not seem as natural to me.
Click to expand...

I always get suspicious when I hear complaints about a 'hard edge' from digital vs. the 'musicality' of analog.

Have you been to live concerts of unamplified music with brass instruments recently? I go to such concerts frequently, and time and again I am stunned how hard brass actually sounds, with a significant 'edge' to it, except in the smoothest sounding venues -- it especially helps suppress expectation bias by closing your eyes.

Digital reproduction is on average markedly superior to vinyl in this respect (PCM at least, I don't know about DSD).Yes, you can hear that hardness of brass on the best turntables, but also then only with the very best recordings/pressings. These are rather rare circumstances. Otherwise it is typically softened up. Yet you hear that natural hardness of brass from digital all the time. Granted, on inferior digital (in particular, think early brickwall filters) there is artificial harshness overlaid on the reproduction of hardness, which muddles the picture. Yet on good digital there is no artificial harshness, only natural hardness of brass instruments. Good reproduction is not guaranteed, however. Even if the digital source is good, harshness may arise as an artifact of problematic room acoustics, converting natural hardness of sound to harshness. Yet this is not a problem of digital itself, but of room distortion. Vinyl may be more forgiving of room problems in this respect. Solution: better room treatment.

If brass doesn't have 'edge' to its sound, it doesn't sound real! (Again, only in the smoothest sounding live venues the tale may be different.)

I remember vividly the exasperated remark from an ATC loudspeaker executive in an interview from the early 1990s about the CD medium: "But live music does sound hard!" That's right. -- Also, have you ever closed your eyes when listening live to unamplified human voices in a classical concert? These can sound quite hard too.

One should not mistake the softness of sound from analog for 'musicality'. The debate digital vs. analog has always been fundamentally wrong. It should have been a debate digital vs. analog vs. live music, with the latter being the final arbiter.

I will, however, grant that vinyl is still superior to digital, at least 16/44.1 Redbook, in some aspects. In particular, vinyl is vastly superior when it comes to conveying the roundness and breathiness of the sound of tenor saxophone (alto and soprano saxophone appear to fare much better on Redbook). I also think that the resolution of, say, solo violin can be markedly better on a great turntable on the best recordings/pressings.

Until recently I would have said that vinyl is also superior when it comes to the reproduction of orchestral strings. Yet on good recordings now finally I hear that characteristic silky inner sheen from an orchestral violin section playing at low to middle volume through my Berkeley DAC (standard Alpha 2, not Reference). Count me impressed at how far the CD medium has come. I had thought this kind of resolution would have been lost forever -- but it has always been in those tiny pits waiting to finally be uncovered.
 
Musicality mean different things to different people, some may consider the lack or accuracy (no edge) as being more musical, same as how high thd with SET's allow SET lovers to connect ...



It's all good ...
 
Mike said:
Paul - I envy you for methodically conducting your due diligence. However, I am concerned that by the time you make the decision to jump, the new model, something better comes along. All the while you are giving up valuable enjoyable hours of listening.

I know you don't want to listen to the advise of others for an ultimate buying decision and would prefer go it alone and do your homework. I respect that. But again, you have good dealers, you have good, knowledgable friends here, perhaps you can save a little time here and there with their help.

You were hell bent for leather on the Lampizator, even inciting some good natured bantering, and you were all excited about the Sonore i2s capabilities and the PS Audio DirectStream and the Soulution DAC and this digital piece and that digital piece and in the end, found out that its vinyl you really love. So, invest in a killer vinyl rig (Kronos, AMG, etc.) and maybe go lighter on the digital side. Get a nicely priced, nicely featured, nicely sounding DAC like the AYRE QB9-DSD and start listening. :audiophile:
Click to expand...

rbbert said:
There pretty has to be some compromise, because there is always something new and almost always something better. Mike's advice seems spot on to me?
Click to expand...

MDP said:
I agree too. There will always be something newer and supposedly better. Paul, I say jump in and start enjoying the music.
Click to expand...

a.wayne said:
Agree and for the very same reason I'm on the fence , too much , too quickly ........ :skeptical:
Click to expand...


Thanks for the thoughts guys; they are not lost on me. As I have mentioned before, I have my B&W, Rotel, Oppo stuff that gets me by on a day-to-day basis. I want the new set up to be right for me when I switch. As I have also said, I get into a lot of different business ventures that can distract me for long periods of time and tie up my goof-around money. I am happy with the process (but excited about the finish line at the same time).

Rob, as far as compromise goes, I get the never-ending new technology point. I am just saying I am not terribly unhappy with what I have and when I convert to my new system I would like the step up to be as close to my ideal as possible. It's just the way I want to role. I am having fun and happy.

Mike, suffice it to say I was absolutely floored by the AMG, DS Audio Nightrider.
 
Al M. said:
I always get suspicious when I hear complaints about a 'hard edge' from digital vs. the 'musicality' of analog.

Have you been to live concerts of unamplified music with brass instruments recently? I go to such concerts frequently, and time and again I am stunned how hard brass actually sounds, with a significant 'edge' to it, except in the smoothest sounding venues -- it especially helps suppress expectation bias by closing your eyes.

Digital reproduction is on average markedly superior to vinyl in this respect (PCM at least, I don't know about DSD).Yes, you can hear that hardness of brass on the best turntables, but also then only with the very best recordings/pressings. These are rather rare circumstances. Otherwise it is typically softened up. Yet you hear that natural hardness of brass from digital all the time. Granted, on inferior digital (in particular, think early brickwall filters) there is artificial harshness overlaid on the reproduction of hardness, which muddles the picture. Yet on good digital there is no artificial harshness, only natural hardness of brass instruments. Good reproduction is not guaranteed, however. Even if the digital source is good, harshness may arise as an artifact of problematic room acoustics, converting natural hardness of sound to harshness. Yet this is not a problem of digital itself, but of room distortion. Vinyl may be more forgiving of room problems in this respect. Solution: better room treatment.

If brass doesn't have 'edge' to its sound, it doesn't sound real! (Again, only in the smoothest sounding live venues the tale may be different.)

I remember vividly the exasperated remark from an ATC loudspeaker executive in an interview from the early 1990s about the CD medium: "But live music does sound hard!" That's right. -- Also, have you ever closed your eyes when listening live to unamplified human voices in a classical concert? These can sound quite hard too.

One should not mistake the softness of sound from analog for 'musicality'. The debate digital vs. analog has always been fundamentally wrong. It should have been a debate digital vs. analog vs. live music, with the latter being the final arbiter.

I will, however, grant that vinyl is still superior to digital, at least 16/44.1 Redbook, in some aspects. In particular, vinyl is vastly superior when it comes to conveying the roundness and breathiness of the sound of tenor saxophone (alto and soprano saxophone appear to fare much better on Redbook). I also think that the resolution of, say, solo violin can be markedly better on a great turntable on the best recordings/pressings.

Until recently I would have said that vinyl is also superior when it comes to the reproduction of orchestral strings. Yet on good recordings now finally I hear that characteristic silky inner sheen from an orchestral violin section playing at low to middle volume through my Berkeley DAC (standard Alpha 2, not Reference). Count me impressed at how far the CD medium has come. I had thought this kind of resolution would have been lost forever -- but it has always been in those tiny pits waiting to finally be uncovered.
Click to expand...

Lets see, mostly amplified but not all. A lot of brass but not all. In 2014:

The Elgin Symphony (4 times)
Chicago
Nitty Gritty Dirt Band
Dave Mathews Band
James Taylor
The Outlaws
Diana Ross
John Mayer
Phillip Phillips
Marchall Tucker Band
Some very good nights at BB Kings Blues Club

I would never, ever say digital is bad or that analog is better. To my ears they are different and I have a preference. I hear what I call an edge in digital but let me be even more generic. With vinyl I simply relax more.
 
FlexibleAudio said:
I would never, ever say digital is bad or that analog is better. To my ears they are different and I have a preference. I hear what I call an edge in digital but let me be even more generic. With vinyl I simply relax more.
Click to expand...

Fair enough!

I'd add that I personally listen to music less for relaxation and more for adventure and excitement.
 
FlexibleAudio said:
Thanks Norman. If you have seen one thing from me it would be that I want to develop my system with as little compromise as possible (to my ears) and that I move at the speed of a crippled snail. Oh wait, that's two things.
Click to expand...

Did you hear "bite" with DSD128 on the GG or B7? Ddid they play DSD128 natively for you?
 
Norman the DSD on Lampi was 128 only and it was on the B7. The GG was only set up for PCM the two times I visited. Go figure? I wasn't impressed with the PCM relative to the DCS stacks I was comparing it to at the show. On the other hand the DSD128 on the B7 was the closest to analog I have heard from digital. To me it just wasn't analog and you know what I am trying to accomplish. Given the hoops and hurdles I was willing to jump through to get the best from a Lampi, changing vinyl is not a daunting issue.
 
Do you have the music in vinyl? If you already have a big collection, then OK…if not very daunting.

I will let you know in a few weeks what difference the 1-2 punch of Regen and Corning cable makes, OK? Swenson is loving it and very surpsrised that the combo is so dynamite.

There is a lot I feel is brewing in terms of digital playback that will unfold in the next few months and the good news is that the costs of these things will be minimal. Software, hardware tweaks, etc. I hear things...

That reminds me, I have to contact my analog designer buddy that takes digital as a hobby and he hears even more things...

I also have a big audio session at the end of next month with Herve, and I will again hear the LHC-208, but this time directly against the B7…just for fun. Man, I love it here in Geneva as I am close to some real high end heavyweights…Goldmund/Dartzeel/CH/Nagra/Audio Consulting/Stenheim/Tron/Eternity Joe/Swiss Sonor, Illusonic (Lausanne office).Like being a kid in a candy store…LoL

Zurich has their fair share of brands as well. Soulution, Weiss, Klangwek,Piega/etc. Lucerne too
 
I still cant get over the fight where one has to be better than the other, there's no exclusivity here gents, it's all good .....






:)
 
Al M. said:
I always get suspicious when I hear complaints about a 'hard edge' from digital vs. the 'musicality' of analog.
Click to expand...
Yep. I regularly attend live acoustic music concerts, mainly classical, at the local USF concert hall and occasionally the recitals off in the side rooms, where you sit 8' from the performers. I'm fine with my digital/SS system. Nothing "unmusical" about it at all...to me.
I have also never met an audiophile at such events. Perhaps one could attend with me and point out which violinist sounds more "analog/tubey" during the performance.:P
But perhaps they're too busy listening to rock music on their TTs....
Like A Wayne said, it's all good. Heard too many great/terrible examples of various reproduction systems to compartmentalize this stuff. YMMV.

cheers,

AJ
 
AJ Soundfield said:
Yep. I regularly attend live acoustic music concerts, mainly classical, at the local USF concert hall and occasionally the recitals off in the side rooms, where you sit 8' from the performers. I'm fine with my digital/SS system. Nothing "unmusical" about it at all...to me.
I have also never met an audiophile at such events. Perhaps one could attend with me and point out which violinist sounds more "analog/tubey" during the performance.:P
But perhaps they're too busy listening to rock music on their TTs....
Like A Wayne said, it's all good. Heard too many great/terrible examples of various reproduction systems to compartmentalize this stuff. YMMV.

cheers,

AJ
Click to expand...

To me its not that a live violinist sounds more analog its that to my ears analog sounds more like a live violinist.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top