Avantgarde Speakers

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asiufy said:
Ha! Pretty cool review, and I agree with that quote :)

There's the setup thing, which adds complexity, but partnering amplifiers/electronics factor in a great deal as well.
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XD is supposed to help. But I would think utilizing Jim Smith would be the icing on the cake.
 
Mike said:
I also don't have a 4m wide room either, but man those Trio's look awesome!
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Those who don't have space, or even have a 2m wide room, but some length, should just get the WE 16A (pic at the bottom). It is a giant 200kg mono, that has one of the greatest midranges ever. You need to cross it to a sub below 75hz. It sounds the same 180 degree off axis, and 2 ft or 10 ft away. Well, it was made for a cinema audience of 800, including those sitting in either corner of the front row.
WE 16A1.jpg
WE 16A2.jpg

This is my AG Trio review Avantgarde Trio - Factory visit

And reviews of some other horns http://audioshark.org/speakers-10/h...estern-electric-berlin-7229.html#.Vd9WOixViko

http://audioshark.org/speakers-10/horn-porn-tour-ii-bd-oris-horns-netherlands-7228.html#.Vd9WOyxViko

http://audioshark.org/speakers-10/h...s-cerat-integrated-amp-7230.html#.Vd9WPixViko

http://audioshark.org/speakers-10/horn-porn-tour-1-voxativ-ampeggio-due-7227.html#.Vd9WPyxViko
 
asiufy said:
Well, I've heard Trios sound bad, with horrible bass integration, and also heard Duos sound fantastic, fully integrated. It's all in the setup. The new XD stuff should make that part easier, as today it's a fully analog process.
It took us about a day to set up the Duo Mezzos in our room at THE Show in Newport Beach this year!
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Fully agree and I found they are picky on placement. I was demo them 2 hours and found moving around couple of inches makes different. I never heard any system make music sounds like a "LIVE" as Avantgarde.
 
Mike said:
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XD is supposed to help. But I would think utilizing Jim Smith would be the icing on the cake.
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I agree Mike, if I get Avantgarde speakers, using Jim's vast knowledge of the line is the only way to go. For those that don't know, Jim Smith used to be their distributor here, and I'm pretty sure he can get any of their speakers to sound fantastic!!
 
Re: Avantgardes and show demos – another viewpoint

I understand how some can say that the UNO & DUO did not blend the horn with the SUB 225 woofer smoothly enough.

In fact, whenever I was brought in to hear a system with said issues, I agreed unequivocally. Took less than an hour to fix it, though.

I had countless visitors to my place in Atlanta over a five-year period when I was Avantgarde's North American distributor. Never heard any negative comments about blending.

I remember when Dick Olsher visited our first-ever DUO demo at CES 2000. His printed comments were something like “Best Sound Anywhere in Las Vegas”. He meant all of the other high-end speakers at any price, as well as the live shows.

We were fortunate enough to win comments such as those at 5 out of the 7 shows that we demo’d in, with different associated electronics, rooms, and Avantgarde models.

One of the issues with voicing DUOs was that the indicated crossover point was too high. In other words, if you crossed over at the indicated 170 Hz, there would always be a blending problem, because the actual roll-off from the SUB 225 was higher than that. The only way to do it was by measuring and listening and tweaking accordingly. IIRC, it was more like 140 Hz.

There were other issues that needed attention as well, but no need to go into all of them here.

If set up properly, the DUOs could/can deliver a highly involving musical experience. I personally wouldn’t tell folks to wait until they can afford - or have the space - for Trios. For those that have the space and budget, the TRIOs can transcend the DUO experience. However, as a testament to the DUO musical involvement, over the five years that I was the North American distributor, I set up a large number of DUOs for buyers. They had switched from the usual list of audiophile-approved speakers. To my knowledge, only one out of maybe a hundred ever switched back to ‘conventional’ speakers.

I would like to mention the efficacy of show demos, however.

In an average hotel room, the room resonances are usually more pronounced. That means that there is a relatively small listening area where the bass will be acceptably smooth (and sometimes you just have to live with the problem and try not to play cuts that accentuate a particular room issue).

I will never forget the reaction of Holger and Matthias when I opted for just three seats at CES in 2000. They wanted a room full of seats – which was their usual practice. But, due to the room resonance issues, I wasn’t comfortable with the sound except in one row of three seats. My view was that I would rather have 20 minute demos non-stop to three listeners who would leave the room with positive reports to others, rather than have a room full of listeners, many of whom would have a blah response. So we had long lines throughout the show and Avantgarde-USA was off to a great start.

Regarding rooms with multiple seats and rows – It takes a larger room to find more acceptable seating areas where the bass stays relatively smooth. Even so, voicing a system and room to a large audience is always difficult and is not entirely related to home set-ups.

The year that we had standing applause at the end of every demo was partially due to voicing to an entirely different set of circumstances in that large room. Could I have had a better demo? Absolutely, but in this case the desired outcome had to be for a larger area, meaning that the very best sound for the room had to be compromised a bit for the greater good. We had amazing response for three days and long lines each day, but the demo really wasn’t set-up for the sort or dynamics, presence and tone that it could have delivered. That’s why I have always taken show reports with a grain of salt, no matter what is said, positive or negative. ESPECIALLY when there are multiple rows of seats in the typically-sized hotel room.

I could say a lot more, but I’ll stop with one more thought – this is not just an Avantgarde show issue - it’s absolutely the same with every speaker.
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Perfect, Jim!
I have noticed the crossover point issue, and I had to double (and triple) check the actual crossover point with Avantgarde, as I couldn't believe it!
As for the show setup thing, we faced this issue in one of our rooms (with darTZeel/Evolution Ac. speakers). Since the room was extremely awkward, it limited speaker positioning, and it would've been less than optimal to have two rows of seats. So I opted for one row, and folks rotated in the sweet spot chair. We actually had people come over and compliment us on the good sound, in spite of the awkward room!
 
nfnc said:
Thanks, Mike.

Due to Omega technology, the impedance has gone up too. Easier to drive, esp with SETs, and for better damping of the drivers.

Uno XD - 16 Ohm
Duo XD & Duo Mezzo XD - 18 Ohm
Trio XD - 19 Ohm

Expected Euro list price?

Zero1 XD - 13900
Uno XD - 21900
Duo XD - 27900
Duo Mezzo XD - 39900
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I own Duo Mezzo G2's (manufactured late 2013).

Anyone knows if there will be an upgrade kit available?

Thx.
 
miguelito said:
I own Duo Mezzo G2's (manufactured late 2013).

Anyone knows if there will be an upgrade kit available?

Thx.
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I have been informed that the XD series were designed with the possibility for the non-XD series to be upgraded to XD specs.

However, production is currently being ramped up for the new series so XD amp boards are in short supply, and AG has not decided if there will be an upgrade kit available. I am sure that they will announce it on the website or inform dealers once a decision is made.

I suspect that it would be easier for the models with Omega and CPC to be upgraded.
 
miguelito said:
I own Duo Mezzo G2's (manufactured late 2013).

Anyone knows if there will be an upgrade kit available?
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Emailed AG... They said that in the design, upgradability was taken into account. However, it will take some time for upgrade kits to be available as the first order of business is to produce new speakers.
 
nfnc said:
However, production is currently being ramped up for the new series so XD amp boards are in short supply, and AG has not decided if there will be an upgrade kit available. I am sure that they will announce it on the website or inform dealers once a decision is made.

I suspect that it would be easier for the models with Omega and CPC to be upgraded.
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Right, Armin told me the same. My speakers are the current latest model, but it looks like more than just the amp will require an upgrade as the midrange has changed as well. We'll see.

I was just toying with the idea of adding a nice pair of subs (JL Audio Fanthom f113) but I think I will hold off now...
 
I just heard back: They will not be able to offer an upgrade. There are just too many fundamental changes across the board with the speaker to do an upgrade. A "trade up" is the best solution.
 
Mike said:
I just heard back: They will not be able to offer an upgrade. There are just too many fundamental changes across the board with the speaker to do an upgrade. A "trade up" is the best solution.
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That's not what Armin Krauss just told me, on the contrary the design contemplated upgrades specifically. Either way it doesn't matter much to me.
 
miguelito said:
That's not what Armin Krauss just told me, on the contrary the design contemplated upgrades specifically. Either way it doesn't matter much to me.
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For some reason, I still get questions about Avantgarde set-up, speakers, and dealers from time-to-time (after 10 years - sheesh!). I reply to the e-mails and also cc Armin Krauss at the factory in Germany. I have always found Armin to be quick to respond and always helpful. One of the good guys in audio, IMO.
 
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