Audio Show Rant

[Shadowfax]

Hmm, I just thought of an interesting or flat out crazy idea. I don't know if I could pull it off for various reasons, but I was thinking....if someone else ends up going to the SHOW on the west coast next year or any show. Maybe they could hit a few rooms perhaps and ask the reps what they listen to themselves as far as music goes (compared to what they use for demo), kind of a survey type thing. It may be interesting.

Dianna Krall

 

[CPP]

No joke at all, I demo gear to purchase with music I listen to, not what you listed above. If it only sounds good playing your playlist, and sounds crappy playing what I listen to, why would I buy it?

Well said Brian. Well not everyone likes classical music, or blues, or jazz or classic rock so a persons music taste benefits the person doing the listening. After all, we are not all the same...

 

[MusicDirector]

Amen Brian and Chris!
Why would anyone want to buy something that limited their choice of music or listening pleasure?
I listen to nearly everything from A to Z except rap, hip hop, today's pop, opera and that slop that is called Country these days. I have certain genres I feel a little more drawn to over others, but when I'm in a mood for whatever style I have then that's what I want to listen to.
I happen to have an extra fondness for prog rock and classic rock and folk rock and such from the 60s and early 70s that I grew up with and post rock. I also have a strong like of new age, bebop jazz, electric blues, folk and do enjoy me some classical and once in a blue moon even some true country when the mood hits. I'd want gear that makes all of that sound equally great to my ears.
Why would I want to test a system with music I don't listen to or more importantly music I am unfamiliar with? That doesn't make any sense to me.

I also don't own a single track of "audiophile grade" music, no SACDs, 180 gram, Hi-Rez, etc. That stuff can probably sound good on almost any ol' system.

To me personally, using one artist or only a certain genre of music to "truly test a system" is a fool's errand. Unless that is all the person listens to exclusively, then it makes sense to that person. To me, a system, no matter the price tag should be able to handle non-audiophile grade media and audiophile grade equally. It should also handle any and all styles of music equally well, otherwise what use or value is it?

Bottom line to my thinking is that the best music to truly test a system with is music selections the listener is most familiar with.

 

[rbbert]

Sorry if I wasn't very clear. Your comment implied that one would be unlikely to hear SRV's Couldn't Stand The Weather in a demo room. My comment alluded to the fact that you hear SRV in general, and often that very cut, all too often at audio shows (not as much as Tin Pan Alley, true); so often that many frequent showgoers complain that SRV cuts should be "banned".

I'm not saying you shouldn't demo equipment with music you like and listen to, just that if you want to test a system's ability to reproduce recorded music, classical music in all its guises will do that better than anything else. That doesn't mean that other music can't do so as well, but it has to be carefully chosen and its limitations kept in mind, mostly that any non-acoustic instrument is unlikely to have a "reference" sound.

 

[Shadowfax]

That's cool, Bert.
Tin Pan IS the best test track, IMHO.

A few reasons classical sounds better is because so much more care is pu into everything from the playing, to the quality of instrument, to the room they are playing in, to the mics used and then into the recording gear. Playback on classical radio stations also is due to superior gear used to play and broadcast it. Similar love is put into the albums/disks such as Chesky, Pope, a Naxos and many more.

Rock music is usually recorded like shit, overly compressed for loud radio playback and with a fraction of the care as above for the most part.

But, I still prefer rock to classical. I would like to learn a little and find some specific stuff, but only have a few samplers in that genre.

I do have many fine Jazz, Jazz-Fusion, Smooth Jazz, and some Rock recordings, and that is mostly what I listen to, but in no way limited to that.

I understand that something recorded near perfect will on the right system, playback at near perfect. That's why I can't listen to my Triumph- Stages disk, sounds horrid.

Glad you cleared that up tho

How is that Pass integrated doing?

 

[MusicDirector]

Also realize that said about SRV can also be said to the same degree regarding Diana Krall. I'm talking about the "all too often" bit. (While she does nothing for me, she is not bad, far from the worst I've ever heard. However, that is personal taste).

I do agree that classical music is recorded with far greater care than any other genre, even jazz. Heck, it even sounds good on regular old CD in most cases. (I don't think I would want to hear it in MP3 though). There are some good prog rock recordings done with care (if one looks to the good remastered editions it can be even better), not quite as much as classical done right the first time, mind you, but some prog rock groups do care about what they are doing. Unfortunately, when it reaches the hands of the remastering engineer often times those guys either do what they want regardless or whatever the record company wants, forget the artists who labored and cared. Some examples of good ones for testing would be certain Pink Floyd cuts, Rush's Moving Pictures also comes to mind as well. That said, no, I would not use say something like Snakes & Arrows as a tester for example.
Yes, most rock is recorded like crap with the rule of thumb being "let's see how loud we can go and how much clipping we can get away with". So yes, I personally would not put all my eggs in that basket or any one basket either, even classical. Not because classical is not best suited, we have already established that it is well suited, but more because I like to throw the kitchen sink at systems or gear and I like to use stuff I am familiar with every note on and that includes some classical and across my broad range of genres. That way it's far easier to tell if something is off, even subtly. On a revealing system it is easier to tell if it's the recording that is off too (and I've had a few surprise disappointments with my system of recordings I thought were fine that were really so awful that I threw them out because I could not stand to listen to them to even try to find some redeeming quality).
Again though, this is all a personal preference thing and all good at the end of the day.

 

[Steve]

Dianna Krall

Ha! When they ask The Lady what she would like to listen to, her reply is "The last thing I want to hear is Diana Krall, AGAIN!"

It is now an unspoken rule at any AV event. You don't play Diana Krall.

 

[Myles B. Astor]

Also realize that said about SRV can also be said to the same degree regarding Diana Krall. I'm talking about the "all too often" bit. (While she does nothing for me, she is not bad, far from the worst I've ever heard. However, that is personal taste).

I do agree that classical music is recorded with far greater care than any other genre, even jazz. Heck, it even sounds good on regular old CD in most cases. (I don't think I would want to hear it in MP3 though). There are some good prog rock recordings done with care (if one looks to the good remastered editions it can be even better), not quite as much as classical done right the first time, mind you, but some prog rock groups do care about what they are doing. Unfortunately, when it reaches the hands of the remastering engineer often times those guys either do what they want regardless or whatever the record company wants, forget the artists who labored and cared. Some examples of good ones for testing would be certain Pink Floyd cuts, Rush's Moving Pictures also comes to mind as well. That said, no, I would not use say something like Snakes & Arrows as a tester for example.
Yes, most rock is recorded like crap with the rule of thumb being "let's see how loud we can go and how much clipping we can get away with". So yes, I personally would not put all my eggs in that basket or any one basket either, even classical. Not because classical is not best suited, we have already established that it is well suited, but more because I like to throw the kitchen sink at systems or gear and I like to use stuff I am familiar with every note on and that includes some classical and across my broad range of genres. That way it's far easier to tell if something is off, even subtly. On a revealing system it is easier to tell if it's the recording that is off too (and I've had a few surprise disappointments with my system of recordings I thought were fine that were really so awful that I threw them out because I could not stand to listen to them to even try to find some redeeming quality).
Again though, this is all a personal preference thing and all good at the end of the day.

You are forgetting the compression wars. Most of today's recordings have next to no dynamic range. So how can a system make that sound better?

 

[Mike]

OK...I'll admit, I love Diana Krall's music. Must be the being born in Canada part of me. Is she overplayed at shows and friends homes? Oh yeah...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[highEndguy]

OK...I'll admit, I love Diana Krall's music. Must be the being born in Canada part of me. Is she overplayed at shows and friends homes? Oh yeah...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I also loved Diana and if somebody say
something bad of Her I will Hunt you down

 

[Myles B. Astor]

I also loved Diana and if somebody say
something bad of Her I will Hunt you down

I do too and really don't care if something is played in many rooms. That's actually a plus.

I also find the notion of systems only being able to play one type of music ridiculous. Maybe 30 years ago. Or maybe one or two systems today but the vast majority of systems play all types of music.

 

[wisnon]

OK...I'll admit, I love Diana Krall's music. Must be the being born in Canada part of me. Is she overplayed at shows and friends homes? Oh yeah...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LoL

I knew it. Undercover Canuck! hahaha

 

[asindc]

I haven't read the entire thread but I will say that I understand to a certain extent why presenters might be hesistant to play someone else's music. I've been in rooms where the music was... let's just say "an acquired taste" that most in the room didn't really enjoy. In each case, it was music brought from home by an attendee. That being said, I don't understand the reluctance if it is music that the presenter in familiar with and it is relatively popular.

 

[Myles B. Astor]

I haven't read the entire thread but I will say that I understand to a certain extent why presenters might be hesistant to play someone else's music. I've been in rooms where the music was... let's just say "an acquired taste" that most in the room didn't really enjoy. In each case, it was music brought from home by an attendee. That being said, I don't understand the reluctance if it is music that the presenter in familiar with and it is relatively popular.

Understood but it is a consumer, not a trade show. If I'm a consumer and interested in something, I'd like to hear something I'm familiar with played on the system.

 

[puroagave]

at the last Newport show I bumped into an audio salesman i've known for few decades that worked in one of the premier shops. we're sitting together in the EAR/Marten room and Dan Meinwald asks if anyone has any requests, from Rich's bag he pulls out a mono Beatles 45 of love me do. I thought it was a prank but he was dead serious and so was Dan, after the demo Dan thanked him. to me it served no purpose, to Rich it was probably one of his devilish schemes to dress down snobby exhibitors. bottom line, IMO the salesperson/exhibitors job is to accommodate the customer - think about it, you have a captive and prequalified audience waiting to give you their money why the poor treatment?

 

[MusicDirector]

You are forgetting the compression wars. Most of today's recordings have next to no dynamic range. So how can a system make that sound better?

I'm not forgetting that, I just failed to mention it and your absolutely right about today's recordings.
It's sad really, it's all about replacing artistry with mass consumerism.

I didn't say a system could make a bad recording sound better. I did imply that a non-revealing system can make it harder to tell especially of one did not hear the same recording on even a slightly better system. Nothing can make a bad recording sound good. Once you compress, you loose dynamics, there is no reverse. You can't take say an MP3, convert it back to lossless wav or redbook or other lossless format and get what was lost in compression back.
There are a few good rock recordings (especially in the prog rock area depending on the artist and how much control they have which can be also said for any other genre)....a few, not a bunch and I'm not talking about from the late 90s onward either. In my opinion the compression wars just get worse with every year. I also don't think that SACDs have true dynamic range, then again I've only heard one (it was a Yes Album, but I forgot which one) and it sounded like it was on life support. It sounded like fake dynamics were added what made it worse.
Of course, for groups like Yes and many many more, you'll never beat vinyl.

 

[MusicDirector]

I also loved Diana and if somebody say
something bad of Her I will Hunt you down

Just to be clear, I never said anything bad about her. I don't think she is a bad artist or anything, I like her style of music and have only heard her live, she just does nothing for me, by that I mean doesn't excite me like some others. My bigger complaint is that she has been over played. If they did the same with my all time favs, I'd have the same opinion and be somewhat jaded or even turned off to a degree on those too.
Same reason I don't listen to radio anymore, they over play and over play. I don't want to hear the same artist and same one or two songs 25 times a day.

 

[MusicDirector]

I do too and really don't care if something is played in many rooms. That's actually a plus.

I also find the notion of systems only being able to play one type of music ridiculous. Maybe 30 years ago. Or maybe one or two systems today but the vast majority of systems play all types of music.

That's that thing. Why don't they play all types of music, instead of sticking with one artist and one type in demo? Naturally, there is not enough time to play everything everyone wants, but at least have a selection of all types and both everyday medium and audiophile medium and take a request now and again. That way, we the listener can have a fair evaluation of said system. Besides, would that not give more opportunity for jaw-drop or speechless factor?

 

[MusicDirector]

OK...I'll admit, I love Diana Krall's music. Must be the being born in Canada part of me. Is she overplayed at shows and friends homes? Oh yeah...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Canada has given forth some of the best artists ever! One of my top 5 favs is Canadian and many of my other favs (Sarah Mclachlan, Gordon Lightfoot, just to name only two) again, Canadian.

 

[Myles B. Astor]

Joni Mitchell
Neil Young
Robbie Robertson
Leonard Cohen
Holly Cole
?