Audio path upgrade, where to start?

plonkywonki

plonkywonki

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Dear audiosharks, on my way to upgrade for the better my audio path however against a little budget I try to find out the smartest next step. I've limited the options to two.
I have an amp with decent grip on my speakers, but out of auditioning I know a more horsepower amp will deliver stronger grip and as such better bass performance and more clear and peaceful soundstage. So upgrade of amp is #1 of the possibilities. Investment 3k.
Then, the amp I currently have has a fairly good + well implemented internal DAC, and I'm thinking that I'd be able to get a more clear and peaceful soundstage by upgrading from internal to to an external dac, e.g. from RME or otherwise scientifically proved professional DAC. This is possibility #2 at say 2k.
What is wise in your experienced opinion?
 
neither one.......... optimize your room acoustics and then concentrate on your 'eye candy' !
 
I guess I am at the point of breaking from integrated amp into dedicated parts.
The current H90 is fine as it is, as it performs very well for its weight. Hegel H190 would be my reference though, after careful comparison.
I would not choose upgrade to a H190 as if so I'd always be curious to find if the Hegel DAC is the best possible DAC for my system, and it would also towards the future limit me to explore analog only amps.
 
With very little experience compared to many people here , i actually think that your loudspeakers may be the week spot. Or it could also be loudspeaker cables as they can make a really big difference , i have tried that myself.
 
room is ok (for me), by the way it's 5m w x 4m deep x 3m hi approx, I know the acoustics and reflections, they're treated as much as possible, and I don't have issues with standing waves as long as I do not play too loud (and I never do)(ref level 70dba max)
speakers are (at least at this moment) for me ok. I know them inside out and they deliver sufficient dept and detail in the sound image.
amp is, even though it is a very good match with the speakers, not strong enough to provide a stable basis i.e. the mid freq details get lost upon playing low freq i.e. strong bass, and the bass freqs in some musical genres seem " on vacation" as how I'd say that. In the H190 they clearly appear. So for this reason the amp is on the list of swapping out. Then the issue with an integrated amp is that I have no separate DAC, so if I want to upgrade to a full analog amp without a digital sections I'd always need a dac first. so that is why I think of a dac as well.
 
I am going to second the suggestion for Speakers. Your X18s are not all that much different than my Dyn 42s. Similar size, drivers, and sensitivity which is a harder to drive 86db.

The little Dynes sound fantastic but really cannot fill a bigger room.

You may be better off with something a little easier to drive with 60 watts like a pair of Fyne F500SPs if you still want small speakers.
 
Speedskater said:
First things first:

That's loudspeakers and room.

Note that the amps have to be happy driving the chosen loudspeakers.
Click to expand...

so after year or so I have learned that even though the little amp is happy to drive the loudspeakers a more horsepower amp will do it with more fun and ease = happiness in the soundstage
 
plonkywonki said:
so after year or so I have learned that even though the little amp is happy to drive the loudspeakers a more horsepower amp will do it with more fun and ease = happiness in the soundstage
Click to expand...

That is true, they will sing better with more juice. I only drive my 42s with a cheap Lepai 20x20 in my office but for fun tried them with several big amps and they were pretty surprising. Counterpoint NPS-400, Stratos Plus, Hafler 9180, and my current Luxman. They may stage good for near-field pinpoint seating, but they don't fill the room with ease.
 
Thx. Filling the room for me is relative as I listen at fairly low listening levels and even at the lower levels I'd like an amp that makes the dynes shine to their max. Hegel H90 as advertised would do this, they advertised at the time that " The grip, or damping factor as it is called, is up to 20 times higher than the industry average. Ensuring a dynamic and powerful bass response, even on larger floor standing loudspeakers. " which is why I chose for H90 as my preferred amp back when I started with hifi. for now I know there's more to gain and decided meanwhile to go for a DAC that can handle the D to A which opens possibilities towards a fully analog or dual mono amp which has more beef to it. (as well as if I'd ever part with x18 it could similarly opens the possibilities for active speakers like Dyn BMxxa)
 
I was not going to offer the clearest - and simplest - solution, since most audiophiles have never experienced this level of results, and therefore cannot comment from experience.

Having voiced over 1000 systems to rooms, I am certain that getting your system to work WITH the room is always going to produce the greatest results, especially in the musical engagement area.

It also costs less than most high end components and cables.

And when you do decide to purchase the next component, you'll be much more confident in your choice, because now you can hear it better.
 
I love the sound of the dynaudio, they would work well in my listening room but for your purpose they have very beautiful passive floorstands which will far better sound in a large listening room

If you still like bookshelves, I know a few bookshelves tested in a Dutch audio show, which where able to fill such a space like that, will cost about 5-6k

Second thing: I notice that you did not invest in better cables and power supply. I absolutely make use of high end cables, I use a power filter for my stuff and of course tested for my stuff how to hook the power line in the block. moreover, I make use of high quality linear power supplies, In my opinion: power is very underestimated. Bit nr... on a dac does need so little amount of voltages that the Electronical bias from the powersupply and the electromagnetical distortion from other components makes that last bit already useless. So the bias of that bit is 0.00001% and the bias of the power supply is 0.0001%. How can that last bit work?

Also, I miss some demping for the speakers
 
Jim Smith said:
[..]Having voiced over 1000 systems to rooms, I am certain that getting your system to work WITH the room is always going to produce the greatest results, especially in the musical engagement area.

It also costs less than most high end components and cables.

And when you do decide to purchase the next component, you'll be much more confident in your choice, because now you can hear it better.
Click to expand...
The best advice sofar :) thanks a lot. I believe also that the knowing the room acoustics + getting the system to work with the room is the best approach. Also when listening not so loud you can, in my opinion, work around the room modes in comparison to listening at concert level.
 
I guess looking at all replies and my own answers I’ll choose to upgrade to an external dac that has options to adjust to room modes Hopefully this will as 2nd option also result on a more peaceful sound image compared to the internal dac of the h90. In the case the low frequencies will remain missing (I assume this will remain) I can then always have a look at a more powerful amp.

(By the way proper good quality cabling and galvanic separation where possible are for me basics, so I didn’t mention them in my orig question)
 
I don’t understand you. The dac does not have anything to do with room corrections. If you want room corrections try dirac on another amp. If you want better lows you need other (larger) speakers. Another dac is also an improvement , but does not solve these issues about lows and roon correction.
 
Just another option for the ointment, have you thought about adding a subwoofer? Add some bottom end and making the amp'sjob easier.

To get an integrated with muscle at $3k you may have to go used. The Parasound might fit but also has a DAC.

I would look at the Schiit Yggy for the DAC in your budget, you may want to contact them the DAC comes in a couple different flavors.
 
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