Audio Desk Systeme Record Cleaner

K

kdbrink

New member
Joined
Jun 13, 2013
Messages
26
Location
Central California
I am an Audio Desk owner. Here is my story:

Issue #1
I purchased the machine from "The Cable Company" about a year ago. My unit was DOA. The red button to activate the cleaning cycle was inoperable. I requested a replacement model to be shipped since they had my credit card info, and I'd send back the defective unit. I was told no replacement could be sent, and that I had to return the unit for service. OK...I sent it back. They replaced the switch.

Issue #2
Every record I cleaned required manual wiping to remove numerous water drops. I tried everything I could think of, I even took the fan covers off to see if that would allow more air volume. No dice. I once again requested a replacement, and again was told that I had to send it back for repair. After a couple of week, they told me that they had fixed it, and it working as like new. When I received it back, they had placed some of those plastic ties, the ones you use to tie off garbage bags, behind the wipers or "lips" to increase contact. I was told that everything was operating as it should. Their remedy had no effect on the drying, I still had to wipe every record.

Issue #3
I once again complained about the non-drying of the unit and once again requested a replacement unit and was told I had to ship it back as they now had a factory authorized remedy. I sent it back and the fix actually seemed to work.

Issue #4
After receiving the unit back from the factory drying fix, I cleaned about 100 LPs, and then the wheels that grip the record and the brush barrels refused to let go at the end of the cycle. Even after numerous attempts to reset the machine, they would not release. I once again requested a replacement. Their response: I could return it again for service or they would "allow" me a trade in value of $2000 for my LEMON unit towards a new "improved" one.

OK...I guess I was desperate because when this thing works it is wonderful, and I was tired of messing with an obviously defective machine. Although I was angry that I couldn't get a replacement under warranty, I ponied up another $2000 for a "new and improved" one. Now I wish I had just sent to old one back for more repair.

The new one worked great...no water spotting and records clean as you can imagine.

Issue #5
After cleaning about 20 LPs, the records wouldn't rotate. I found that the rubber wheel that grips the LP and at the same time drives the cleaning brushes was spinning on its shaft. Now after only two days of use, the new one has to be sent back for repairs.

So now I have $6000 invested in a $4000 machine (I still think the machine should have been replaced under warranty), and it is once again on its way back across the country for more repair.

I contacted Ultrasystem (the US importer) today, and they apologized for my troubles and promised to get this fixed. I'm hoping for the best.
 
I'm so sorry to hear about your issues. I'm past 100 records and no issues here. I'm sure you have the unit on a perfectly balanced surface? That's one thing that can cause some issues. I hope it gets worked out for you, because as you said, when it works, it's great.
 
Mike said:
I'm so sorry to hear about your issues. I'm past 100 records and no issues here. I'm sure you have the unit on a perfectly balanced surface? That's one thing that can cause some issues. I hope it gets worked out for you, because as you said, when it works, it's great.
Click to expand...

Hi Mike
Yes, it is always on a balanced surface according to the bubble level on top. As I understand it, this machine seems to be a work in progress.
 
I looked at these things and they do no more than my VPI 16.5. In fact, they don't do as good a job. Here's why: No RCM does any actual cleaning. It's merely a platform for cleaning records. What cleans a record is the chemicals and methodology used. Higher price does not always mean better. My $600 VPI 16.5 is better built and parts are available at a lot of places and not that expensive. With the products like Autodesk you are not in control of the cleaning. I want to be able to use the best cleaners and not be restricted to a cleaner that must be used with a given machine that most likely is ineffective or not the correct formula to use on a record. Also, I'd rather see what is happening as I clean. A great many cleaners require or suggest that a soak period be done of 1 to 3 minutes. You can't do that on an Autodesk or similar design. For a few thousand dollars the only thing the Autodesk offers is a speed up of the process of cleaning records, but with lackluster results at best. I'd rather take the 5 minutes or so per record to properly clean it with results on a less expensive machine using the best cleaners and good method over trying to automate a process into microwave speed that simply can not be done with good results or the required flexibility needed at times.
Just my opinion with the experience of cleaning over 400 records and tons of research into the process.
 
Sorry MusicDirector, I completely disagree.

I had a VW27 Typhoon, it worked ok, I tried different chems etc. was never totally satisified.

Since then I bought the AudioDesk (through Mike's group buy) and it is night and day better...I have cleaned over 250 records now and can't believe the difference. I always use the max setting so it takes 5 minutes to clean and dry each record...absolutely no issues and they sound cleaner than the VPI could muster. I don't mind using the prescribed chems because it works. So my experience has been different than yours...
 
KahunaCanuck said:
Sorry MusicDirector, I completely disagree.

I had a VW27 Typhoon, it worked ok, I tried different chems etc. was never totally satisified.

Since then I bought the AudioDesk (through Mike's group buy) and it is night and day better...I have cleaned over 250 records now and can't believe the difference. I always use the max setting so it takes 5 minutes to clean and dry each record...absolutely no issues and they sound cleaner than the VPI could muster. I don't mind using the prescribed chems because it works. So my experience has been different than yours...
Click to expand...

You can disagree all you like, but there are facts behind cleaning records and opinion. The facts are that if the proper methods are applied to cleaning records any platform will do and the results will be as you describe. The rest of it is my opinion only of course, so there is no disagreement or agreement, just different. I just am not sure what goes on inside the Autodesk. Does it scrub or agitate? How aggressive is it? Does it have a resivor for collecting waste liquid? Does it apply the SpinClean method which would mean using dirty liquid after a couple of records? I guess it's the whole autonomous no control aspect that worries me personally about it. It may be a fantastic machine, but again,the point is that it's method over platform.
I only buy used records so I know it works because I don't try to get pristine records. (That's not to say I have not picked up some that require a mere once over with a one-step method cleaner). Most of the records I pick up are scratch free or have little surface scratches that don't effect sound, but can be quite dirty on occasion. Mostly it's dirt ranging from a little light dirt and a couple or few finger prints to layers of dirt. I have several records that are now CD quiet from cleaning them on my VPI. I could have cleaned them on a dead turntable, manually turned and vacuumed with a modified mini shop vac which is a method I used for a year because I could not afford a real RCM. (I only got the VPI a few months ago due to a repetitive hand injury from using my former method).
My point is that I have found that one doesn't really need a multi-thousand dollar RCM, but if you want one there's no harm in it as long as it works and you can use correct formulas. (There are a few out there that are good). Perhaps the folks who make the Autodesk came up with a good formula that addresses the various dirts typically found on a record. I do know after experimenting, that the VPI cleaning formula is not only worthless, but creates more problems than it solves. If you were just using that, it is no wonder you weren't satisfied.
Happy cleaning!

~Eric
 
KahunaCanuck said:
Sorry MusicDirector, I completely disagree.

I had a VW27 Typhoon, it worked ok, I tried different chems etc. was never totally satisified.

Since then I bought the AudioDesk (through Mike's group buy) and it is night and day better...I have cleaned over 250 records now and can't believe the difference. I always use the max setting so it takes 5 minutes to clean and dry each record...absolutely no issues and they sound cleaner than the VPI could muster. I don't mind using the prescribed chems because it works. So my experience has been different than yours...
Click to expand...
Agreed. I've owned the original hw16 and 16.5 and sold them years ago.
I used a hw27 several times at a friends house. Although I thought the manual 16.5 was better than the automatic 27.
I was messing with an audiodesk at a store a few months ago and it was beyond belief how good it was. I listened to the records I cleaned and was astounded at how quiet and nice they played. It's easily the best record cleaner I ever used. But it's price is also out of range for most people, even with getting an awesome deal.
With that said, now that my record collection is getting sizeable again I will be buying another 16,5 because for $500 there is nothing that comes close for even 3 times the price.
95% of my records are mint condition but very few cost more than a few dollars. Alot cost $1.
Now if in the future I start adding more and more $30-$50 180g records. I may have to rethink how I clean them.

Kdbrink sorry to read of your troubles with your obvious lemon of a record cleaner.
Being in Cali you should have bought it from Jeff. Someone who would stand behind the product. Sounds like the cable company was taking you for a ride. And trying to fix it themselves instead of sending it back to the company like they should have in the first place.
Best of luck with it from here on out.
 
MusicDirector said:
You can disagree all you like, but there are facts behind cleaning records and opinion. The facts are that if the proper methods are applied to cleaning records any platform will do and the results will be as you describe. The rest of it is my opinion only of course, so there is no disagreement or agreement, just different. I just am not sure what goes on inside the Autodesk. Does it scrub or agitate? How aggressive is it? Does it have a resivor for collecting waste liquid? Does it apply the SpinClean method which would mean using dirty liquid after a couple of records? I guess it's the whole autonomous no control aspect that worries me personally about it. It may be a fantastic machine, but again,the point is that it's method over platform.
I only buy used records so I know it works because I don't try to get pristine records. (That's not to say I have not picked up some that require a mere once over with a one-step method cleaner). Most of the records I pick up are scratch free or have little surface scratches that don't effect sound, but can be quite dirty on occasion. Mostly it's dirt ranging from a little light dirt and a couple or few finger prints to layers of dirt. I have several records that are now CD quiet from cleaning them on my VPI. I could have cleaned them on a dead turntable, manually turned and vacuumed with a modified mini shop vac which is a method I used for a year because I could not afford a real RCM. (I only got the VPI a few months ago due to a repetitive hand injury from using my former method).
My point is that I have found that one doesn't really need a multi-thousand dollar RCM, but if you want one there's no harm in it as long as it works and you can use correct formulas. (There are a few out there that are good). Perhaps the folks who make the Autodesk came up with a good formula that addresses the various dirts typically found on a record. I do know after experimenting, that the VPI cleaning formula is not only worthless, but creates more problems than it solves. If you were just using that, it is no wonder you weren't satisfied.
Happy cleaning!

~Eric
Click to expand...

I think this is one of those "manual vs. PDK" discussions...if your system works for you...perfect! Being as lazy as a sloth, I prefer full auto...if I can get great results, which is what the AD does for me, I prefer it.
As for the inner workings, I know they hype they offered spoke of "sonic" cleaning like some electric toothbrushes...but I am no expert.

Overall, while the unit is pricey, I chose to see it as a necessary component in my system, of which it certainly isn't the most expensive and helps deliver me amazing vinyl playback...so obviously, for me it works!

Cheers

Mike
 
Here's the latest (and hopefully the last) update on my situation with the Audio Desk Systeme recordcleaner.


Thanks to Mr. Robert Stein of Ultrasystem (the US importer of the AD), I received a brand new uniton Thursday. The serial number is in the 1900s (my original machinewas around 1000). After cleaning 50-60 LPs this weekend, I am happyto report that this unit is working FLAWLESSLY!


If you've never experienced what thismachine can do, you've never seen a properly cleaned LP!
 
Purchased this wonderful machine in October and had it delivered only to me in December.

While I read a lot of issues and concerns (rusty water, not working, leaking, etc, ...), none seem to had happen to me. Maybe I am lucky. BUT that word should also apply to the wonderful effect it had on my collection as well as music satisfaction. Now I am also confident to pick up used/mint collectables with nary a fear that the sound would be compromised by dirt/grime, etc, ... Instead, this machine had wonderfully (and magically) restored the music I was looking forward to hear, with minimum or even reduced to almost non existent.

Here's 2 pictures showing it sitting on top of my vinyl cabinet (S$150 purchase from IKEA) with a custom made acrylic top cover and the other showing it cleaning one of my vinyls - and look pristine isn't it AFTER the cleaning, note the "shine".

I am happy. Cheers! Audio Desk Systeme 1.jpgAudio Desk Systeme 2.jpg
 
Hello folks,

Just received mine yesterday. Cleaned 5 records and I'm impressed by the results to say the least.
There are lots of mechanics in this small unit so of course problems could happen and I'm happy to see that this lemon unit was replaced but not surprised. Doing business with a German company is just being in an other world for integrity and customer service.
I only had a big problem once for quality with a german product in my clinic with no respect whatsoever for my troubles and I'm talking about more than 50k euros of goods. Defective orthodontic brackets : I had to debond and rebond half of the patients where I put them, using other brackets ( made in USA BTW ). Overall, all this story cost me about 100k euros loss in products and overtime of work. And it is not over !
I should have sue them with other orthodontists who had the same experience. Just no time for it and disgust just to hear the name of that company.
So of course, exceptions to both quality and customer care still exist in Germany too. When I hear "Deutsch Quality" on adverts, it reminds me of these troubles and almost makes me smile...
I hope for the best in terms of reliability of this Audio Desk cleaner. At least, my records are really clean now...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top