Atma-Shephere Class D Review

Michaels HiFi said:
I believe that's the reason why Mike posted this negative review per his statements in this thread:

Too many positive reviews and people whine (not saying you do);

Post a negative review and people still whine. Look at the manifested excuses created by some people in order to attack the negative review.

Basically a large part of the issue is clearly the people. They seem incapable or unwilling to keep reviews and opinions in the construct with which they should be taken.
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Just to be factual you are the one who first gave a reason for the posting of the review. Mike just posted it and didn't say anything. Then later he chimed in probably in an attempt to cover you.

And what's really funny is to see how your posts are all over the board. You say that people said or think things never said in an attempt to make yourself look like you are in the right or some moral high road. What's sad is you totally or intentionally miss the point and misrepresent what others have said.
 
Mr Peabody said:
Just to be factual you are the one who first gave a reason for the posting of the review. Mike just posted it and didn't say anything. Then later he chimed in probably in an attempt to cover you.

And what's really funny is to see how your posts are all over the board. You say that people said or think things never said in an attempt to make yourself look like you are in the right or some moral high road. What's sad is you totally or intentionally miss the point and misrepresent what others have said.
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Merry Christmas!
 
Mike said:
Other than AGD, I have yet to hear Class D whatever-flavor-of-the-month-chipset impress me. AGD however, yes! Whatever they’re doing is right.
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There's a flavor of the month chipset?? If so its not in the AGD... You'll find a lot of the best class D amps don't have 'chipsets',

There are things like opamps and comparaters that are chips as well as driver ICs. But they are pretty well pick and choose according to the designer's needs. I wouldn't call that a chipset.
 
atmasphere said:
There's a flavor of the month chipset?? If so its not in the AGD... You'll find a lot of the best class D amps don't have 'chipsets',

There are things like opamps and comparaters that are chips as well as driver ICs. But they are pretty well pick and choose according to the designer's needs. I wouldn't call that a chipset.
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I see class D amps from Hypex, Purifi, Pascal, Ice power, TPA3255, TPA 3166, TPA 3251. There are dozens within Hypex, Purifi, etc.

Other than AGD, I haven’t heard one yet that really impressed. I owned the NERD…I mean NORD amps for a while. Meh. Very Meh. Speaking of NORD, what happened to them? They were all the rage.
 
Mike said:
I see class D amps from Hypex, Purifi, Pascal, Ice power, TPA3255, TPA 3166, TPA 3251. There are dozens within Hypex, Purifi, etc.

Other than AGD, I haven’t heard one yet that really impressed. I owned the NERD…I mean NORD amps for a while. Meh. Very Meh. Speaking of NORD, what happened to them? They were all the rage.
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I remember that massive thread here on the shark some years back about the NORD amps with lots of excitement and folks who seemed very impressed. A year or two ago I saw a used Mk 2/latest version on A'Gon and bought it as it had been a number of years since I had tried any class D amps. While not being totally bowled over by it, I must say it sounded WAY better than the older ones I had tried in the past.

I'd be interested in hearing the AGD and the Atmospheres.
 
Mike said:
I see class D amps from Hypex, Purifi, Pascal, Ice power, TPA3255, TPA 3166, TPA 3251. There are dozens within Hypex, Purifi, etc.

Other than AGD, I haven’t heard one yet that really impressed. I owned the NERD…I mean NORD amps for a while. Meh. Very Meh. Speaking of NORD, what happened to them? They were all the rage.
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When you see 'TPA3255' or the like, that's a class D chip. The Hypex and Purifi don't have a chip set other than the kinds I mentioned just above.

Class D amps vary in sound quite a lot depending on how well the power supply and input buffer sections are designed and executed. The modules you see from Hypex, ICEpower and the like are in this category- they sell the module but its up to you to put it in an amp and make it work. As best I can make out, some people know how to do that and a lot don't. So you get really variable comments about two different amps that use the same module.

That's one of the reasons we made our own module so we could control all the variables.

A lot of the chip based amps strike me as 'meh'; I know what you're talking about there. But those chips are intended as monitors in larger circuit environments (like a mix board) so they aren't meant to show off what class D can do as they are meant to be inexpensive and compact.
 
I was curious when I saw "Mini review" in the title. After reading the review, my first thought was that this was highly unusual. Not only the "Mini" part. I have come to believe that in addition to financial considerations, many reviewers would just rather write no review at all than a negative review. What was this guy's reason for posting a negative review for a product that wasn't properly tested?

Atma-Sphere's tube amps are universally acclaimed as some of the best in the business. But now here comes their founder saying that he believes that his (MUCH less expensive) Class D amps sound as good as the pricier tube amps that he sells. While everybody's hearing and preferences are different, based on reputation alone I would trust Ralph's judgement over that of a reviewer who didn't bother to do a proper review and apparently has a history of bad blood with the company.
 
atmasphere said:
Class D amps vary in sound quite a lot depending on how well the power supply and input buffer sections are designed and executed. The modules you see from Hypex, ICEpower and the like are in this category- they sell the module but it’s up to you to put it in an amp and make it work. As best I can make out, some people know how to do that and a lot don't. So you get really variable comments about two different amps that use the same module.
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So you admit a lot of class D amps manufacturers do not know how to make it work. And when these manufacturers send their amps for review and got bad reviews. And these reviews are unethical?
 
Setting biases aside, I don't see how anyone consumer or especially an industry professional could consider what was written in that original link to be a "review".

I'd like to know is there anyone who has read that link consider that write up a complete review no matter what it was for? If so discussion over because we just aren't on the same page.
 
Adyc said:
So you admit a lot of class D amps manufacturers do not know how to make it work. And when these manufacturers send their amps for review and got bad reviews. And these reviews are unethical?
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No, I didn't say that. I said something quite different!

But if someone submits a bad product, the thing to do if the product isn't up to snuff is to not talk about it.

A few decades ago a speaker manufacturer brought a set of speakers for us to audition. They were a multiple driver crossover-less design. They didn't play bass, they really couldn't do the highs and the midrange was bad too. I was as polite as I could and simply told the designer we're weren't interested. The speaker was terrible but he was a nice guy and probably a bit over-eager. He submitted the same speaker to the Listener (Art Dudley's magazine). It got a terrible review and is one of the few bad reviews I've seen that did appear to be honest. Those speakers were never heard of again after that. I suspect it was a painful experience for the designer. Whatever time and money into the product suddenly got the big flush.

I've often wondered what would have happened if that designer had continued to refine his work; if he would have ever been able to make something that cut the mustard. But he got shut down and that was the end of it.

If nothing ever appeared in print it might have been different. Crossover-less speakers are a lot more common now due to the resurgence of SETs. He was well ahead of that curve. It could have been very interesting.
 
atmasphere said:
No, I didn't say that. I said something quite different!

But if someone submits a bad product, the thing to do if the product isn't up to snuff is to not talk about it.

A few decades ago a speaker manufacturer brought a set of speakers for us to audition. They were a multiple driver crossover-less design. They didn't play bass, they really couldn't do the highs and the midrange was bad too. I was as polite as I could and simply told the designer we're weren't interested. The speaker was terrible but he was a nice guy and probably a bit over-eager. He submitted the same speaker to the Listener (Art Dudley's magazine). It got a terrible review and is one of the few bad reviews I've seen that did appear to be honest. Those speakers were never heard of again after that. I suspect it was a painful experience for the designer. Whatever time and money into the product suddenly got the big flush.

I've often wondered what would have happened if that designer had continued to refine his work; if he would have ever been able to make something that cut the mustard. But he got shut down and that was the end of it.

If nothing ever appeared in print it might have been different. Crossover-less speakers are a lot more common now due to the resurgence of SETs. He was well ahead of that curve. It could have been very interesting.
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"But if someone submits a bad product, the thing to do if the product isn't up to snuff is to not talk about it."

Maybe I am missing your point, but if no lousy product ever got a bad review, wouldn't that lead to people being duped into buying said lousy product because there are No Negative Reviews of the product? I think Bad reviews if accurate are good for the consumer and a heads up for the MFG to do a better job. This does not just apply to Audio Gear. If a product is obviously and demonstratably flawed, why would we not want to inform others?
 
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