Are audiophile cables a scam? Copper VS banana VS ???

[Kramer64]

I recently completed a transition from Nordost to Schnerzinger cables. I certainly perceive a positive difference. More tonal density, better foundation to the music, which I expected, but also better imaging and clarity which I didn't. A significant improvement, not transformational or life changing, but significant and worthwhile to me. OTOH, I've tried audiophile switches in my system and perceived no difference at all. That certainly doesn't mean the next person won't have a different perception, and it doesn't mean my system is inferior. Just my perception-who knows why?

There is a whole range of possibilities-from cables, switches, fuses, cable risers, resonators, crystals-and somebody says they all work. While I have my own opinions, if someone perceives an improvement, good for them. I try to refrain from telling people what they hear-or don't-and I don't tell people they would hear exactly what I hear if they had better ears, or better gear. Once that starts-as it almost always does-there is no longer hope for a real discussion. The ASR crowd seems intent on writing off as fools anyone who disagrees with their perception, but that happens on "our" side of the debate as well.

Consider this example-someone with a well sorted system buys a $500 set of cable lifters and proclaims the soundstage increased, imaging is better, etc. The next person, also with a well sorted system, tries the risers and perceives no difference at all. Who is right? Who cares? If someone finds value in a product, the fact that I do not doesn't make them a fool. And the fact that I do not find value in those risers doesn't mean my system sucks or I'm deaf. We can have an interesting, maybe even enlightening discussion about why we perceive these things differently until we declare, as many do, that what we perceive must be universally true for everyone.

Which is too bad because better understanding usually lies outside of iron laws and extreme positions. Happily, we can all buy what works for us.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

Who is right? Who cares?

THIS^^^^^^^

I have always maintained no one should care how I spend my money and if it's a "waste" or not, just as I (in a respectful way) don't care how others spend theirs.

People have a right to not agree with others. But they take it a step future and view it as a personal attack upon them somehow if someone spend money on cables or DAC's or what ever.

I've never understood that mindset other than I get the sense its insecurity/jealousy masquerading as superiority.

 

[Mechnutt]

On another forum there are so many cable and dac deniers. I usually look up their gear and it is all budget gear. You need resolving gear to hear many of the changes that cables can bring and dacs for that matter. And, depending upon the cables, you may not hear a difference.

TMR has posted several paragraphs about cables and how you need higher end resolving gear to hear the differences.

 

[Mechnutt]

THIS^^^^^^^

I have always maintained no one should care how I spend my money and if it's a "waste" or not, just as I (in a respectful way) don't care how others spend theirs.

People have a right to not agree with others. But they take it a step future and view it as a personal attack upon them somehow if someone spend money on cables or DAC's or what ever.

I've never understood that mindset other than I get the sense its insecurity/jealousy masquerading as superiority.

This happens a lot on the SHF's and the deniers get down right nasty and belittling. There is a guy there that I will name because he is a condescending A$$, called Rotel Fan. He owns Mac gear but he does not believe cables, dacs, power supplies and music players sound different. I told the guy who lives about 5 hours from me that I would pay for his trip to my home and put him up in a nice hotel so he could hear all the changes that these things make in my system and if he heard the changes he would have to pay me back double. Of course he did not take me up on it.

Also, I started a post on the AC forum about people asking for recommendations of gear with a high budget and getting replies for budget gear. There was one guy who had a budget of $8 to 10K for speakers and people were recommending $2500 speakers. I looked at their gear none of it was higher end. I questioned it and caught hell.

One guy stated that all you are paying for with $10K speakers is the name and a fancy cabinet. When pressed, it turns out that he has lesser gear and would never pay that much for audio gear, so he spouts false dribble. There is a lot of that on forums.

Forums have no place for belittling. I look at forums as a place for friendly discussion, comradery, learning, swapping ideas and the like. I have made quite a few audiophile friends locally and we get together fairly often for great music, doing shootouts, swapping gear, food and drink, usually at my house. I have also made friends from across the country and even met Mr. P at Axpona and we had dinner together.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

I told the guy who lives about 5 hours from me that I would pay for his trip to my home and put him up in a nice hotel so he could hear all the changes that these things make in my system and if he heard the changes he would have to pay me back double. Of course he did not take me up on it.

I think this part of your great post is VERY true - a complete resistance and sticking-their-head-in-the-sand approach as they DON'T want to know the truth. It's easier and more satisfying for many (and lazy) to simply take a position with zero effort to investigate on their own and to simply be nasty about it. These are angry bitter people in many instances. All you need to do is go to their profile and look at their posts on other topics. These people are ANGRY at life.

This is exactly how my channel went deep into tweaks by accident. I got tired of people arguing about USB cables and switches. I had no idea which side was right, though I felt the digital-deniers were probably correct.

I bought 16 cheap switches from Amazon and additional cables and conducted DOZENS of tests over several months with an open mind.

I was astonished to learn not only do they make difference (some make it sound much worse), but I uncovered a trifecta of cheap switches that for $200 combined outperformed many expensive switches. It's only recently I was able to best that.

Now I try vibration control and tweaks, digital tweaks, tube tweaks - everything. I've decided to focus on the joy of experimenting and learning for myself what works and what doesn't. I fully embrace that my results are in my system to my ear and my gear and what I've experienced is not "absolute" in its results. Just in my narrow set up to my taste.

I finally decided to give up trying to actually have a real conversation with people as most don't want one. They only want to be nasty and sanctimonious.