Approaching 400 hours burn in....

[Puma Cat]

Charles, I've owned Maggies(MGIII's and 3.6's) long before you. I've sat down with Wendell & Galina Diller at Overture Audio in Wilmington, De years back while they were on their N. American tour. We discussed this very topic. So yes, I am aware of certain speaker types and some of their inherent traits.

As for a capacitor in a speakers crossover network taking 500 hrs to 'burn in' , complete nonsense.

Dave, just some info for context. The break-in time for capacitors in correlated with the type and material composition of the capacitor. The proprietary Teflon caps that Conrad-Johnson uses in their products have a very long burn-in time. While C-J states the standard "300 hours", in reality it was more like 1000 hours. It took me the better part of 3 years to fully burn-in my CT-5 preamp. Cheers.

 

[chops]

Charles, I've owned Maggies(MGIII's and 3.6's) long before you. I've sat down with Wendell & Galina Diller at Overture Audio in Wilmington, De years back while they were on their N. American tour. We discussed this very topic. So yes, I am aware of certain speaker types and some of their inherent traits.

As for a capacitor in a speakers crossover network taking 500 hrs to 'burn in' , complete nonsense.

I'm not sure when the MG III's came out, but man I like that classic look!

I first started with Magnepan in '96 - '97 when the MGLR-1's came out. I remember them sounding like the cardboard box they came out of with zero hours on them. After about 48 hours they started showing promise. But it wasn't until the following weekend when they really started to shine.

As for a single capacitor taking X amount of hours, who knows, but the network as a whole, that's a different story. Maybe a couple hundred hours.

 

[Mikado463]

Dave, just some info for context. The break-in time for capacitors in correlated with the type and material composition of the capacitor. The proprietary Teflon caps that Conrad-Johnson uses in their products have a very long burn-in time. While C-J states the standard "300 hours", in reality it was more like 1000 hours. It took me the better part of 3 years to fully burn-in my CT-5 preamp. Cheers.

Stephen, Wow, you're making me take that walk down 'memory lane' ! 40 years ago I first met Lew Johnson at a friends Audio Shop outside of Blue Bell, Pa. I was using a Hafler pre-amp(driving a brand new Threshold S-500 up against my Dahlquist DQ-10's) at the time and I remember Lew constantly battering me to try one of his pre-amps. Finally around '86 I believe, I bought a PV7, upgraded to a PV9 a few years later. I could be wrong but back then I believe the caps were polystyrene and I can tell you they did not take three years to 'burn in' !

Regardless, all in good fun !

Ok, Michael, I apologize for what has turned into 'pirating' of your thread. Wasn't my intention, rather just a left handed comment about your 'hours countdown'. So I return this back to you. Between Charles and Stephen they got me off on a walk down memory lane, perhaps another 'thread topic' ?

 

[Shadowfax]

Ok, Michael, I apologize for what has turned into 'pirating' of your thread. Wasn't my intention, rather just a left handed comment about your 'hours countdown'. So I return this back to you. Between Charles and Stephen they got me off on a walk down memory lane, perhaps another 'thread topic' ?

Wait wait, I did not get a chance to respond to the question to me.
I cannot explain it Scientifically, I cannot provide any references to 2X Blind listening tests or White Papers. I can only say what I heard. You should scan over my link where I explained what I was hearing at each interval of aprprox hours of listening.

Fyne Audio F502SP Review Thread

Keep in mind, I did say the following early on in my review, Post #1

"Note: Either I am getting more used to the presentation (yes my ears are breaking in along with the drivers) but hoping the punchiness diminishes a little more. It is not an issue at lower volume. And that is another thing about these speakers, they sound great at low volume."

I had a similar experience with a new pair of Dynaudio speakers over 20 years ago. I guess it all depends on the Speaker (drivers) and maybe what music you listen to. My bet is you will break a woofer in faster with Marcus Miller than Dianna Krall. YMMV

It was a interesting time period going from These speakers are awesome to These speakers don't sound right and back and forth. I did have a 2nd pair of ears to help with my sanity questioning. She is a lot saner than I am.

Anyway, I wish you could experience this strange phenomenon for yourself. Does it make sense? Not fully, but it's real. Just ask any Goldenear

 

[Michaels HiFi]

Wait wait, I did not get a chance to respond to the question to me.
I cannot explain it Scientifically, I cannot provide any references to 2X Blind listening tests or White Papers. I can only say what I heard. You should scan over my link where I explained what I was hearing at each interval of aprprox hours of listening.

Fyne Audio F502SP Review Thread

Keep in mind, I did say the following early on in my review, Post #1

"Note: Either I am getting more used to the presentation (yes my ears are breaking in along with the drivers) but hoping the punchiness diminishes a little more. It is not an issue at lower volume. And that is another thing about these speakers, they sound great at low volume."

I had a similar experience with a new pair of Dynaudio speakers over 20 years ago. I guess it all depends on the Speaker (drivers) and maybe what music you listen to. My bet is you will break a woofer in faster with Marcus Miller than Dianna Krall. YMMV

It was a interesting time period going from These speakers are awesome to These speakers don't sound right and back and forth. I did have a 2nd pair of ears to help with my sanity questioning. She is a lot saner than I am.

Anyway, I wish you could experience this strange phenomenon for yourself. Does it make sense? Not fully, but it's real. Just ask any Goldenear

Trying to justify what you hear to anyone who thinks they know better than you what you are hearing is a complete waste of your time and energy. It's best to simply laugh at them and ignore.

Most of these people just want to argue no matter what you say, so just know what they are, laugh and move on and engage the open minded and respectful people on the forum.

 

[Porsche]

speakers/crossovers do not take 400-500 hrs to break in, that's absurd, they need some hrs to break in the spider, suspension, etc that's it. a planar type speaker does take a lot more time do to the size of the planar but I still doubt its 500hrs

hope they sound great, never heard them but I did enjoy the large tannoys from years ago

 

[CPP]

On Fyne's on website, it notes "Your speaker driver will have a degree of tension in the spider and the cone material and the surrounds for example will be a little stiffer. All of these parts will, over a fairly short period of time, loosen up and improve the overall sound quality. This usually takes around 24 to 36 hours of total play time. How you approach this breaking in period will probably vary from person to person, and you will probably find a multitude of options if you search the internet, but there are certain methods which we would recommend for achieving this." So basically its a personal decision on how a person proceeds.

I've always wanted to hear the F700 bookshelf.

 

[Porsche]

On Fyne's on website, it notes "Your speaker driver will have a degree of tension in the spider and the cone material and the surrounds for example will be a little stiffer. All of these parts will, over a fairly short period of time, loosen up and improve the overall sound quality. This usually takes around 24 to 36 hours of total play time. How you approach this breaking in period will probably vary from person to person, and you will probably find a multitude of options if you search the internet, but there are certain methods which we would recommend for achieving this." So basically its a personal decision on how a person proceeds.

I've always wanted to hear the F700 bookshelf.

pretty much, 50hrs or so depending on. music/volume

 

[Shadowfax]

Dave, just some info for context. The break-in time for capacitors in correlated with the type and material composition of the capacitor. The proprietary Teflon caps that Conrad-Johnson uses in their products have a very long burn-in time. While C-J states the standard "300 hours", in reality it was more like 1000 hours. It took me the better part of 3 years to fully burn-in my CT-5 preamp. Cheers.

I agree with your post on Dynaudio speakers on another forum not to be mentioned. Similar experience to my Audience 82s and my Fynes.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

pretty much, 50hrs or so depending on. music/volume

I personally spoke with the actual design team of the F704's. They seem to disagree with you. But I'm sure you know better.

 

[Porsche]

I personally spoke with the actual design team of the F704's. They seem to disagree with you. But I'm sure you know better.

there blog on there site, 9/27/22

3 ways to run in your speakers
Now that you have your shiny new speakers all set up in the correct position and you’ve managed to wire them up using our wiring advice blog, let’s talk about running them in, otherwise referred to as breaking in or burning in.
Running in, Breaking In, Burn In, what is it and why do we do it?
While all our speakers are built to our Fyne exacting standards, much like when you buy a new car, the brakes and engine need some bedding in time to be at their best. Your speaker driver will have a degree of tension in the spider and the cone material and the surrounds for example will be a little stiffer. All of these parts will, over a fairly short period of time, loosen up and improve the overall sound quality. This usually takes around 24 to 36 hours of total play time. How you approach this breaking in period will probably vary from person to person, and you will probably find a multitude of options if you search the internet, but there are certain methods which we would recommend for achieving this.

I guess they changed to a much stiffer Spyder and harder cone materials:hey:

you may want to let them know about the discrepancy of 24-36hrs and 400hrs, pretty large difference

like I said before, I believe in breaking in cables/speakers/gear etc but it does not take 500hrs

we build with accuton drivers which are ceramic and they take about 75hrs or so to sound natural, same with dynaudio

 

[Michaels HiFi]

there blog on there site, 9/27/22

3 ways to run in your speakers
Now that you have your shiny new speakers all set up in the correct position and you’ve managed to wire them up using our wiring advice blog, let’s talk about running them in, otherwise referred to as breaking in or burning in.
Running in, Breaking In, Burn In, what is it and why do we do it?
While all our speakers are built to our Fyne exacting standards, much like when you buy a new car, the brakes and engine need some bedding in time to be at their best. Your speaker driver will have a degree of tension in the spider and the cone material and the surrounds for example will be a little stiffer. All of these parts will, over a fairly short period of time, loosen up and improve the overall sound quality. This usually takes around 24 to 36 hours of total play time. How you approach this breaking in period will probably vary from person to person, and you will probably find a multitude of options if you search the internet, but there are certain methods which we would recommend for achieving this.

I guess they changed to a much stiffer Spyder and harder cone materials:hey:

you may want to let them know about the discrepancy of 24-36hrs and 400hrs, pretty large difference

like I said before, I believe in breaking in cables/speakers/gear etc but it does not take 500hrs

we build with accuton drivers which are ceramic and they take about 75hrs or so to sound natural, same with dynaudio

I already did. They agreed with me about the hours needed.

And so does the distributor whose exact words to me the other day was "people who refuse to face reality about the hundreds of hours needed are either deaf or not very good at listening".

Again, I really don't care what you've convinced yourself. You are welcome to believe whatever you'd like. What you think has no relevance in my life. I'm not going to argue with some guy who's never tired them for himself yet thinks he's an expert because he puts some drivers in an enclosure vs actually designing drivers from scratch.

Aren't you the one who also said you never follow the proper break in procedure on your cars as you know better than them? I sense a trend...

 

[Porsche]

I already did. They agreed with me about the hours needed.

And so does the distributor whose exact words to me the other day was "people who refuse to face reality about the hundreds of hours needed are either deaf or not very good at listening".

Again, I really don't care what you've convinced yourself. You are welcome to believe whatever you'd like. What you think has no relevance in my life. I'm not going to argue with some guy who's never tired them for himself yet thinks he's an expert because he puts some drivers in an enclosure vs actually designing drivers from scratch.

Aren't you the one who also said you never follow the proper break in procedure on your cars as you know better than them? I sense a trend...

again, you may want to ask why they state what they state on there blog, an again I agree that they need break in.

also, I have owned over 30 Porsche 911 turbos and gt variances, none drove better from "break in"

sorry to ruffle your feathers and I'm not arguing, I just disagree, an I have experience from testing our drivers from new to used and I would bet you my pay check that you couldn't tell that speaker from 250hrs to 500hrs apart


sincerely, some guy

 

[Michaels HiFi]

again, you may want to ask why they state what they state on there blog, an again I agree that they need break in.

also, I have owned over 30 Porsche 911 turbos and gt variances, none drove better from "break in"

sorry to ruffle your feathers and I'm not arguing, I just disagree, an I have experience from testing our drivers from new to used and I would bet you my pay check that you couldn't tell that speaker from 250hrs to 500hrs apart


sincerely, some guy

Ahhh, so you know better than Porsche as well. Interesting. You seem to be smarter than everyone and there seems to be a lot you can't pick up on by your own admission.

You can believe what you want. I just really don't care what you think.

No feathers ruffled. I find people who have no direct experience on the topic at hand who declare themselves as absolutists and experts entertaining.

Not sure this is putting your speakers in the best light.

 

[Mr Peabody]

If Dynaudio break in don't convince someone nothing will. I have never had a speaker take so long to break in. I nearly drove the dealer crazy because I was wondering if something was wrong or if they changed something since I auditioned them but my speakers did eventually break in. I didn't count hours but it was probably in the 2nd month of owning them and I let them play a lot while at work. That experience made me a firm believer.

My JBL took a good period to break in. They changed in sound more than any speaker I broke in. Like the JBL response seemed to change throughout the period before settling in. The Dyn's were fairly linear, just going from sort of an overly tight sound to loosening up and finding it's groove.

In contrast I don't remember my Revel F52 taking much break in. This could be why some folks experiences are different. Some manufacturers put time on the gear before packing as well.

I think people have different intensities that they listen at. If I listened to Porsche's speakers broke in I bet I could tell them apart from a pair out of the box.

If one doesn't notice they shouldn't dismiss others or try to belittle them with psycho talk. I nearly sent my N05xd back because I wasn't happy with the sound. It finally broke in and the sound was quite different from just out of the box. Now I have had at least two products I tried to break in, gave a lot of time and ended up selling them because I just was not happy with the sound. So I know break in IS NOT just ears adjusting or some such nonsense. I mean even after a break in time was given I just could not live with it. To be clear I went from ready to get rid of the N05xd to being a fanboy between out of the box until break in. Maybe one of my more dramatic break in experiences. Some of which is documented by my posts on the N05xd thread.

I wanted to add my experiences but as Michael says you can't convince someone with their mind made up. Just as we who have experienced break in them telling us it's false is like saying day is night.

 

[chops]

I'd say my Maggie 1.7i's probably took a better part of 300 hours to finally settle in to what they are today. And that's with a variety of music non-stop as I keep my system up and running literally 24/7/365, so about two weeks.

 

[Porsche]

guys, I totally agree about break in, don't try to spin my thoughts, what I do not agree an I said IMO is it does not take 500hrs to break in a speakers.

Michael you are offended but again it says 36-50hrs or whatever to get max sound, that on there website, doesn't say 400 plus, again, you should mention that to them so they can change it.

you haven't heard our speakers, but again I use accuton, ceramic drivers that are very harsh for the 1st 75-100hrs, I also use all mundorf and clarity caps/resistors along with mundorf and goertz inductors, all there upper end parts.

another brand that uses accuton, marten loudspeakers, direct from there website

"The higher the quality of a loudspeaker system, the more demanding it will be regarding burn-in time. Your newly unpacked 2 loudspeakers need quite a bit of playing time to reach their optimum performance capability.
We have enclosed a CD to help speed up this process. Please allow the CD to be run for a minimum of 24 hours before attempting to adjust the placement of the loudspeakers in your listening room. Due to the high-tech materials used in the drivers, the 2 will sound a bit harsh in the beginning, but after 50 hours of playing your loudspeakers will sound good.
After about 200 hours of playing, your system will be optimized. The sound will be more open and detailed, and display more natural musical warmth.
Compare the process to that of a fine musical instrument, which has to be played for a period of time before reaching its full musical potential."

an do not twist my words about Porsche, never did I say I know better than Porsche, what I said is I have never noticed quicker shifting, speed, handling, etc from the day I bought one to the day I sold one unless I had modifications done to the car, never blown a turbo because I did not keep the rpms under 2500 for 2000 miles or whatever they recommend, I guess I have been extremely lucky

at the end of the day we test our drivers with a kipple etc and after about 100hrs there is no noticeable difference on the graphs of break in changing, that's not my ears telling me that, that test gear telling me that

so again, sorry to offend you and hope you enjoy the fynes, look forward to hearing them at axon next year

later

 

[Michaels HiFi]

guys, I totally agree about break in, don't try to spin my thoughts, what I do not agree an I said IMO is it does not take 500hrs to break in a speakers.

Michael you are offended but again it says 36-50hrs or whatever to get max sound, that on there website, doesn't say 400 plus, again, you should mention that to them so they can change it.

you haven't heard our speakers, but again I use accuton, ceramic drivers that are very harsh for the 1st 75-100hrs, I also use all mundorf and clarity caps/resistors along with mundorf and goertz inductors, all there upper end parts.

another brand that uses accuton, marten loudspeakers, direct from there website

"The higher the quality of a loudspeaker system, the more demanding it will be regarding burn-in time. Your newly unpacked 2 loudspeakers need quite a bit of playing time to reach their optimum performance capability.
We have enclosed a CD to help speed up this process. Please allow the CD to be run for a minimum of 24 hours before attempting to adjust the placement of the loudspeakers in your listening room. Due to the high-tech materials used in the drivers, the 2 will sound a bit harsh in the beginning, but after 50 hours of playing your loudspeakers will sound good.
After about 200 hours of playing, your system will be optimized. The sound will be more open and detailed, and display more natural musical warmth.
Compare the process to that of a fine musical instrument, which has to be played for a period of time before reaching its full musical potential."

an do not twist my words about Porsche, never did I say I know better than Porsche, what I said is I have never noticed quicker shifting, speed, handling, etc from the day I bought one to the day I sold one unless I had modifications done to the car, never blown a turbo because I did not keep the rpms under 2500 for 2000 miles or whatever they recommend, I guess I have been extremely lucky

at the end of the day we test our drivers with a kipple etc and after about 100hrs there is no noticeable difference on the graphs of break in changing, that's not my ears telling me that, that test gear telling me that

so again, sorry to offend you and hope you enjoy the fynes, look forward to hearing them at axon next year

later

I only get offended if someone I care about says something that bothers me. I could not care less what you think, no matter how much you want to believe otherwise, hence there is nothing to get offended about.

Besides, why would I get offended at someone who is making me laugh?

 

[Puma Cat]

If Dynaudio break in don't convince someone nothing will. I have never had a speaker take so long to break in.

Yup, right with you on that one. In direct my experience, about 300 hours are required. And, they go through a period where they sound pretty bad before they get better and come fully "on song", as it were.

 

[Porsche]

I only get offended if someone I care about says something that bothers me. I could not care less what you think, no matter how much you want to believe otherwise, hence there is nothing to get offended about.

Besides, why would I get offended at someone who is making me laugh?

whatever man, have a good one