Anyone play around with Duelund wire?

Speaker cable (different from interconnect) needs to support a relatively high current, so for speakers that are not highly efficient, a gauge that is too thin is likely not optimal. I've come across various articles that support this view. A lot of cable manufacturers also arrange their products in the order of thickness - the flagship being thickest, while the entry level cable is just too thin.

Someone also did a test of various gauge of the same material of DIY speaker wire, and experimentally found that in his setup every step above 14 AWG the SQ downgrades further. Also considering other subjective reports along with certain cable manufacturer recommendations, I guess 12 AWG is a good thickness as a baseline for speaker cable experimentation. (Unless you use a highly efficient speakers with a low power amp, then I suppose 16 AWG can potentially be better.)
 
Speaking to lower efficiency, I have Harbeth 40.2 speakers, which are only 86db sensitivity... Is this to low to even try Duelund wire as speaker cables?? (Jim?)

I’ve used 16ga w/ KLEI Absolute Harmony connectors as ICs off and on. I love the textural and musical nature of them, but the soundstage does shrink in size (width and height) (but gains in depth) compared to other copper cables on hand.
 
I don't see any concern for 12 AWG - it's already thicker than some particular models of branded audiophile speaker cables.

Someone even tried double running it to get effective 9 AWG with positive things to say.
 
wklie said:
Speaker cable (different from interconnect) needs to support a relatively high current, so for speakers that are not highly efficient, a gauge that is too thin is likely not optimal. I've come across various articles that support this view. A lot of cable manufacturers also arrange their products in the order of thickness - the flagship being thickest, while the entry level cable is just too thin.

Someone also did a test of various gauge of the same material of DIY speaker wire, and experimentally found that in his setup every step above 14 AWG the SQ downgrades further. Also considering other subjective reports along with certain cable manufacturer recommendations, I guess 12 AWG is a good thickness as a baseline for speaker cable experimentation. (Unless you use a highly efficient speakers with a low power amp, then I suppose 16 AWG can potentially be better.)
Click to expand...

Yes the current needed to get the speakers working at the volume desired should influence the thickness of the speaker cable (thicker cable if powerful amp needed), but perhaps so should the impedence of the speaker. In a 4 ohm system, the resistance of a given cable is proportionately much less than if the speaker is 18 ohms.

Since my speakers are 107 dB and quoted as 18 ohms and only need a handful of watts, I feel the 16 gauge cable may be as good or better than 12. Would you agree?
 
Yes, it's about the impedance of the loudspeaker and the end-to-end resistance of the cable. (with respect to each other) Long cables and 4 Ohm speakers need to be much, much thicker than short cables and 16 Ohm speakers.
Any reasonable speaker cable is more than thick enough to carry the current from the largest hi-fi amplifiers.
 
Hear Here said:
Since my speakers are 107 dB and quoted as 18 ohms and only need a handful of watts, I feel the 16 gauge cable may be as good or better than 12. Would you agree?
Click to expand...

Apart from the electrical characteristics, the 12 AWG will offer lower LF extension.
The 16 AWG cable seems to attenuate the LF giving the impression of a more precise/fast sound.

Regards


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One of the possible reasons for a thicker (lower) gauge to help LF is that LF requires more current for some speakers.

To understand this theory better, see this Stereophile measurement (which is one of the first results I found from google):
1213Walexfig01.jpg


It drops below 2 ohm for bass. So this 90dB speaker requires a higher current for LF, which will likely be more suitable with a thicker (lower) gauge.
 
wklie said:
One of the possible reasons for a thicker (lower) gauge to help LF is that LF requires more current.

To understand this theory better, see this Stereophile measurement (which is one of the first results I found from google):


It drops below 2 ohm for bass. So this 90dB speaker requires a higher current for LF, which will likely be more suitable with a thicker (lower) gauge.
Click to expand...

Thanks, but with Avantgarde speakers the bass is active so the speaker cables feed only the bass amp and the upper horns. I'm happy with 16 gauge I think.
 
wklie said:
One of the possible reasons for a thicker (lower) gauge to help LF is that LF requires more current for some speakers.
Click to expand...

This is correct. The thicker gauge allows for higher current.
In terms of sound, the impression one gets is weightier/meatier sound.

.
 
Hear Here said:
Thanks, but with Avantgarde speakers the bass is active so the speaker cables feed only the bass amp and the upper horns. I'm happy with 16 gauge I think.
Click to expand...

I think that you could see some benefits with a 12 gauge cable. My thinking is that the amps in the bass module can't regenerate a signal that has been lost/attenuated in the 16 gauge cable. The 12 gauge cable will carry more LF which can be then amplified by the bass module amps. As I have mentioned earlier the sound gains a lot more weight due to the LF.

But this is only a suggestion. If you are happy with what you have then it makes sense to stay with the 16 gauge you have.


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It's not about allowing current. It's a simple series, voltage divider circuit. It's the end-to-end cable impedance in series with the 2 Ohm loudspeaker impedance. In a series circuit the current remains the same thru all sections of the circuit, it's about voltage drop in the cable compared to the speaker.
Thicker or shorter cables have lower end-to-end impedance.
 
I had 12 g duelund on my speakers (TAD R-1s) and still felt a tremendous benefit in the lower register when I moved to the Elrod cables (@20x the price). That said, the foregoing analysis seems spot on. Either way, huge bang for the buck with duelund and some of the equivalent offerings.


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