Anyone interested in some Ethernet cable evaluation info?

[mep]

Why is that a surprise - could that be due to you not having access to said cables - said hardware - you waiting for one of your "brand ambassadors" to send cables - or are you fishing for new brands to be an ambassador for. A leopard cannot change its spots.

Wow. And you accused me of being a "bit" of an ass for pointing out conflicts in observational statements. How rich.

 

[Mike]

Another one we tried in the store was from Revelation Audio. It was good, but still wasn’t the king.


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[pdub]

Another one we tried in the store was from Revelation Audio. It was good, but still wasn’t the king.


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Traded out a no-longer-needed Revelation DB25 for an Ethernet. Classic WTF cable moment: replacing a BJC CAT 6 from run-of-the-mill Netgear switch to Aurender A10 there was appreciably more bass. Debatable whether this was a good thing, but it was certainly a thing.
Parker

 

[Mr Peabody]

A novice question here, are there any bandwidth limitations to the optical? You seem to have good results with it so I assume no degragation from the conversions?

A friend of mine has a digital set up maybe even more complex than yours, from a purist mind set it's a bit maddening, but every time he adds a new gizmo, it seems to improve on an already good sound.

FMC is a Fiber Media Convertor. The fiber media convertor accepts an Ethernet cable via an RJ45 jack. It also has an optical transceiver module that accepts a fiber cable. The FMC converts the analog electrial square waves passing down the Ethernet cable's metal (usually copper) conductors into light signals and sends them out via the FMC's optical transceiver output port.

Because the signals travelling down the fiber are light and not an electromagnetic square wave, fiber is impervious to the effects of EMI, RF, and other high-bandwidth noise and also provides galvanic isolation. This results in a notably quieter noise floor and improved sound quality.

I use two of them, one at the upstream end, and a downstream FMC, near the streamer, and a 7M run of Tripp-LIte fiber instead of a long run of very expensive audiophile-grade Ethernet cable. Instead, I only need a 0.75M length of audiophile-grade Ethernet cable going from the downstream FMC to the Sonore.

Example: A friend of mine on another forum recently bought a 10M run of WW Starlight Cat8. 10M of Starlight Cat8 costs $750. A 10M run of Platinum Starlight costs...$6250! My two TP-Link FMCs and a the run of fiber cost me...$66. Installing it resulted in a noticeable drop in the overall streaming digital front end's noise floor and a much more open, extended and airy top-end.

 

[crwilli]

Mike,

Have you posted a thread on what you have tried and heard? I have a Revelation Audio Ethernet cable on order...

Craig

Another one we tried in the store was from Revelation Audio. It was good, but still wasn’t the king.


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[crwilli]

Stephen,

Keep fighting the good fight. I am enjoying your explorations.

It seems some of the sharks have some bite.

Craig

 

[Puma Cat]

A novice question here, are there any bandwidth limitations to the optical? You seem to have good results with it so I assume no degragation from the conversions?

A friend of mine has a digital set up maybe even more complex than yours, from a purist mind set it's a bit maddening, but every time he adds a new gizmo, it seems to improve on an already good sound.

Hi Mr. Peabody,
The bandwidth of optical is very high, which is why many telecoms use fiber for long runs over "copper". IIRC (and I may be wrong), there's less insertion loss (loss of dB over distance) for optical than Ethernet cables.

What I can say, going from a 7M long run of Cat7 ethernet to a 7M run fiber was a notable reduction in the noise floor, for a much quieter and a much more extended, airy and open top-end. The reduction in the noise floor "opened up" the presentation overall as well as making it more "natural-sounding". This is consistent with my experience with Shunyata Research's "noise management" products (power distributors and cables) that do so much to reduce the impact of noise, both the overall noise floor and CCI, for example.

A key thing, as with any active device, is to manage noise. The FMCs come with el cheapo little wall warts that I would guess are very noisy. This is why I've got much quieter LPS' that are plugged into quiet power cables and/or power distributors, to keep the noise from adding more active devices down as much as possible. Distance and the old inverse square law helps a lot here.

The next tweak will be new FMCs: the upstream FMC will be a TP-link MC220L, which accepts an SFP (small form-factor pluggable) optical transceivers.

I've ordered a TP-link SFP optical transceiver per the specifications in Sonore's SystemOptique specification for the MC220L:

The new SFP-type FMC will be the upstream FMC, and will be powered by my low-noise Jameco 9V regulated linear power supply pulled into my Shunyata Diamondback power cable via an Audioquest IEC>3US "power strip" (that little thang works really well, thank you, AQ!) It will be connected to the downstream FMC by a 7M run of Tripp-Lite 62.5/125 LC/LC OM1 specification optical fiber; this run of fiber cost me a whopping...$21.

The new downstream FMC will be the newly-released Sonore OpticalModule. The OpticalModule has very low noise regulators and a FEMTO clock and will be the "downstream" FMC that will connect via Ethernet to the Sonore microRendu.

This will initially be powered by my iFi iPower LPS that is plugged into the Triton.

My hypothesis, given Sonore's expertise in this area, is the downstream FMC will be considerably quieter than the current one, and provide improved sonic performance over my current TP-link FMCs. I have a fair degree of confidence in this, in that, like your friend, virtually everything I have done to improve the overall "specification" of the digital streaming front-end has resulted in audible improvements in the musical presentation, like plugging in a Shunyata Venom 14 for Mac Mini and the AC/DC tansformer for the Uptone Audio LPS-1 "Ultracap". Or, for example, when I replaced the POS wall-wart that comes with the current upstream FMC with the new Jameco 9V regulated LPS that I referenced for Bart above, and plugged that into the Shunyata Diamondback/AQ IEC>3US, all these brought audible improvements to the presentation, even to having to lower the volume on the preamp a little to keep the SPLs at my preferred range.

I've come to the same conclusion that Hans Beekhuyzen has: that improving the "streaming front end" can pay dividends comparable to, or as siginificant as, the DAC itself. The streaming system took a significant step up in performance when I installed my Shunyata Alpha USB; it was equivalent to a "component-level" upgrade. Using that as a "yardstick", if the degree of improvement the Alpha USB brought was arbitrarily set to 100, the fiber setup probably gave me an additional 25 on top that, "icing on the cake".

Once I've got that new fiber system in place, and, if it brings the improvements I am pretty confident it will provide, I'll be ordering a Keces P3 from Mike, to provide an even cleaner and quieter power to both the OpticalModule and the network bridge.

 

[aKnyght]

great work and info for all here - thanks!!

The new downstream FMC will be the newly-released Sonore OpticalModule. The OpticalModule has very low noise regulators and a FEMTO clock and will be the "downstream" FMC that will connect via Ethernet to the Sonore microRendu...

very interested to see how this works out -- have been intrigued myself by the opticalRendu [fiber to USB] as a roon endpoint.

 

[Puma Cat]

great work and info for all here - thanks!!

very interested to see how this works out -- have been intrigued myself by the opticalRendu [fiber to USB] as a roon endpoint.

aKnyght,

Yep, that would work! And, it completely obviates the need for an audiophile-grade Ethernet cable.

I've thought about this. But, as near as I can figure, the OpticalRendu is exactly the same as an UltraRendu with an SFP optical transceiver port instead of an RJ45 jack. I'm thinking, from the reviews I've read comparing the microRendu to an UltraRendu, that an SOtM UltraNeo would outperform the Optical/UltraRendu. I don't know that for a fact, its just a hypothesis. But I'm more inclined towards the SOtM than the OpticalRendu.

 

[Puma Cat]

Stephen,

Keep fighting the good fight. I am enjoying your explorations.

It seems some of the sharks have some bite.

Craig

Thanks, Craig.

I'm not worrried about some of the sharks; dolphins are much faster than sharks!

 

[Rob181]

Keep fighting the good fight. I am enjoying your explorations. It seems some of the sharks have some bite.

Yep - keep your observations coming - it is an interesting read & great to get opinions down a road I am shortly to travel.

They aren't sharks - more like gummy bottom feeders.

 

[Puma Cat]

Yep - keep your observations coming - it is an interesting read & great to get opinions down a road I am shortly to travel.

Will do. I'm going to rent in an AQ Diamond for eval on Mike's recommendation. Mike says its a very good-sounding Ethernet cable, so I thought I should evaluate it. I would also like to be able to rent the SoTM dCBL-CAT7 (SOtM should really work on their product nomenclature) as I've also heard great things about it, but Its not available from The Cable Company for rental.

I'll also be evaluating my Supra Cat8 pretty soon now that its arrived and had some days to burn in, streaming content from the Mac Mini to the router.

 

[Puma Cat]

Well, after a good 6 days or so of burn-in 24/7, I put in the Supra Cat8...

Man, this little cable is wonderful! It's is a very nice-sounding cable, indeed. Very detailed but not at all etched, edgy, or spiky. it presents an incredibly layered and complex presentation that is really very nice. The presentation is not quite as spacious front-to-back and "fullsome" as the AudioQuest Cinnamon or Vodka, but it actuallyi has more and a finer layering of detail. The micro-detail, microdymanics and timbral shadings of this cable are really quite impressive and musical as all get-out. I hear fliligreed and sublte little musical details and timbral shadings I don't hear on any of the others. Its like going from a 240 dpi JPEG digital photograph to a 300 dpi TIFF file, using digital photography as an analogy. It has an overall sonic signature and "body" that reminds me of wood-bodied phono cartridges, in in particular, my Sumiko Pearwood Celebration II that was on my Rega P5.

For $54, man, this cable is a winner! Big thumbs up!

 

[Mr Peabody]

Yep, I spoke to the friend I mentioned, this evening, he already uses the optical cabling and FMC. He told me the same as you just mentioned, he uses an upgraded power supply from Uptone.

Hi Mr. Peabody,
The bandwidth of optical is very high, which is why many telecoms use fiber for long runs over "copper". IIRC (and I may be wrong), there's less insertion loss (loss of dB over distance) for optical than Ethernet cables.

What I can say, going from a 7M long run of Cat7 ethernet to a 7M run fiber was a notable reduction in the noise floor, for a much quieter and a much more extended, airy and open top-end. The reduction in the noise floor "opened up" the presentation overall as well as making it more "natural-sounding". This is consistent with my experience with Shunyata Research's "noise management" products (power distributors and cables) that do so much to reduce the impact of noise, both the overall noise floor and CCI, for example.

A key thing, as with any active device, is to manage noise. The FMCs come with el cheapo little wall warts that I would guess are very noisy. This is why I've got much quieter LPS' that are plugged into quiet power cables and/or power distributors, to keep the noise from adding more active devices down as much as possible. Distance and the old inverse square law helps a lot here.

The next tweak will be new FMCs: the upstream FMC will be a TP-link MC220L, which accepts an SFP (small form-factor pluggable) optical transceivers.

I've ordered a TP-link SFP optical transceiver per the specifications in Sonore's SystemOptique specification for the MC220L:

The new SFP-type FMC will be the upstream FMC, and will be powered by my low-noise Jameco 9V regulated linear power supply pulled into my Shunyata Diamondback power cable via an Audioquest IEC>3US "power strip" (that little thang works really well, thank you, AQ!) It will be connected to the downstream FMC by a 7M run of Tripp-Lite 62.5/125 LC/LC OM1 specification optical fiber; this run of fiber cost me a whopping...$21.

The new downstream FMC will be the newly-released Sonore OpticalModule. The OpticalModule has very low noise regulators and a FEMTO clock and will be the "downstream" FMC that will connect via Ethernet to the Sonore microRendu.

This will initially be powered by my iFi iPower LPS that is plugged into the Triton.

My hypothesis, given Sonore's expertise in this area, is the downstream FMC will be considerably quieter than the current one, and provide improved sonic performance over my current TP-link FMCs. I have a fair degree of confidence in this, in that, like your friend, virtually everything I have done to improve the overall "specification" of the digital streaming front-end has resulted in audible improvements in the musical presentation, like plugging in a Shunyata Venom 14 for Mac Mini and the AC/DC tansformer for the Uptone Audio LPS-1 "Ultracap". Or, for example, when I replaced the POS wall-wart that comes with the current upstream FMC with the new Jameco 9V regulated LPS that I referenced for Bart above, and plugged that into the Shunyata Diamondback/AQ IEC>3US, all these brought audible improvements to the presentation, even to having to lower the volume on the preamp a little to keep the SPLs at my preferred range.

I've come to the same conclusion that Hans Beekhuyzen has: that improving the "streaming front end" can pay dividends comparable to, or as siginificant as, the DAC itself. The streaming system took a significant step up in performance when I installed my Shunyata Alpha USB; it was equivalent to a "component-level" upgrade. Using that as a "yardstick", if the degree of improvement the Alpha USB brought was arbitrarily set to 100, the fiber setup probably gave me an additional 25 on top that, "icing on the cake".

Once I've got that new fiber system in place, and, if it brings the improvements I am pretty confident it will provide, I'll be ordering a Keces P3 from Mike, to provide an even cleaner and quieter power to both the OpticalModule and the network bridge.

 

[Puma Cat]

Yep, I spoke to the friend I mentioned, this evening, he already uses the optical cabling and FMC. He told me the same as you just mentioned, he uses an upgraded power supply from Uptone.

Yep, I likely have a very similar one for the microRendu, an LPS-1. I'm sure the upgraded PS from Uptone is paying notable dividends for his optical config.

Unfortunately, as someone is presently retired, and living on a "fixed cash flow", I can't afford to spend ~$800 on Uptone power supplies for $50 worth of used FMCs.

 

[Puma Cat]

So, I've the Supra Cat8 in for a few hours now, and the cable has settled a bit; its become notbaly more spacious and filled-out-sounding. The amout of detail this cable will pull out of a recording is really, really impressive.

Moreover, this cable has a very lively, dynamic presentation. It reminds me even more of my Rega P5 and Sumiko Pearwood Celebration II moving coil cartridge in that this Ethernet cable just frickin' "kicks out the jams", baby! Its great for rock-oriented content; I'm listening to Rodrigo y Gabriela's Rodrigo y Gabriela, and the Supra8 just explodes with this album's rhythmic drive and propulsive energy.

 

[UltraFast69]

Puma

So far from what I am reading and correlating with my experiences are;

- Ethernet cables matter, a view I have always held
- optical isolation makes things night and day
- different systems, different approaches are cumulative


I learned of the Supra 8 and that they are hand made in Sweden and each cable comes with a card attached that is signed by who soldered the connections.

Mr Peabody indicates something to the affect that The Vodka and Diamond have some sound similarities - I read this on the Audioquest website, with one having silver around copper and the latter being solid.

I’m glad someone else is taking charge in this area, because I believe it’s well worth it and does not have to be crazy expensive!




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[Puma Cat]

Puma

So far from what I am reading and correlating with my experiences are;

- Ethernet cables matter, a view I have always held
- optical isolation makes things night and day
- different systems, different approaches are cumulative

I learned of the Supra 8 and that they are hand made in Switzerland and each cable comes with a card attached that is signed by who soldered the connections.

Mr Peabody indicates something to the affect that The Vodka and Diamond have some sound similarities - I read this on the Audioquest website, with one having silver around copper and the latter being solid.

I’m glad someone else is taking charge in this area, because I believe it’s well worth it and does not have to be crazy expensive!

Ultra, I would concur with this summary as being very accurate. I haven't listened to different systems, but my experience with other types of cables is consistent with the view that there are Interactions between cables and system components & speakers.

Regarding the AQ Vodka and Diamond, I've heard they are similar in character, the Diamond brings more "goodness" that the Vodka provides.

Just a note the Supra Cat8 are hand-made in Sweden.

 

[VoicesInMyHead]

Just a note the Supra Cat8 are hand-made in Sweden.

It's not the first (or last) time someone mixes up Sweden and Switzerland. When Spotify went public the New York Stock Exchange even raised a Swiss flag to honour the Swedish company. Anyway, back to topic...

 

[Puma Cat]

It's not the first (or last) time someone mixes up Sweden and Switzerland. When Spotify went public the New York Stock Exchange even raised a Swiss flag to honour the Swedish company. Anyway, back to topic...