Anyone Hear the New .8 Amps Yet

dfwmediagroup said:
It sounded bright and harsh and busy. Very hi-fi. The bass was fine, but the mids and top end were not pleasant at higher volumes. The setup consisted of Accuphase DP-550 cd player, Pass XP-20 preamp and Tara Labs and Anzus cabling. The cables were swapped out during the audition for comparisons sake. The Soulution was superior to the Pass in most all regards. It had better clarity, was smoother, less noise, better dynamics, imaging, soundstaging. It is the most undistorted, powerful and detailed sounding gear I've yet heard. The presentation is just more natural than the Pass. No hi-fi sound, just music. The Scalas do not present a tough load since they are 92 db efficient and are rated at 4 ohm nominal impedance.
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Thanks for the elaboration, dfw. I'm surprised, but I appreciate your comments.
 
I do hear upper midrange glare with my XA160.8 but I was attributing that to a bit of extra energy in the area where the Alexias midrange breaks up as it crosses over into the tweeter. Interesting that it shows up on the Focals.

I'm guessing that the Soulution costs a lot more than the Pass...
 
madfloyd said:
I do hear upper midrange glare with my XA160.8 but I was attributing that to a bit of extra energy in the area where the Alexias midrange breaks up as it crosses over into the tweeter. Interesting that it shows up on the Focals.
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Upper midrange glare - can you give me a couple of particular tracks where you hear it? Not that I disagree - I heard something that might could be described as upper midrange glare (if you mean a slightly unpleasant sound in female vocals for example) but I'm not sure it's coming from the amplifiers but rather the Pass preamps. I fixed it in my system when I upgraded the stock fuse to a HiFi tuning ultimate fuse and used RCA caps (non-shorting for Pass) and XLR caps (also non-shorting) in all of the unused inputs and outputs. I did all of this at the same time so I can't say what made the big difference, though I suspect if was the fuse.

Regarding the XA100.8 vs Soulution amps - although the Focals are relatively efficient and have a nominal impedance of 4 ohms they are know to be a difficult load due to large dips in the impedence/phase curve. I'm not surprised the XA100.8s were outclassed by the Soulution as it wasn't a fair comparison. I'd suggest Soulution vs XS150 as a proper comparison. And a HiFi tuning fuse for your XP-20 ;).
 
Let me clarify that this was not an amp comparison. Peter come over to listen to the Pass hoping it would work for his listening preferences. If you are wondering if more money spent gets you better sound then in this case that was the case. The Soulution was quieter, smoother, better bass, more controlled and much easier on the ears. But at 91k I would expect it to out perform any brand at 28k. I suspect the same results if we were to compare the .8 with a complete XS series the results would be the same. The Soulution is just on a different level as it should be. The Pass is extremely good product. The reason Pass was not at the show with .8 product is probably because all of their inventory is at the Pass factory outlet.
 
Design Audio Video said:
Let me clarify that this was not an amp comparison. Peter come over to listen to the Pass hoping it would work for his listening preferences. If you are wondering if more money spent gets you better sound then in this case that was the case. The Soulution was quieter, smoother, better bass, more controlled and much easier on the ears. But at 91k I would expect it to out perform any brand at 28k. I suspect the same results if we were to compare the .8 with a complete XS series the results would be the same. The Soulution is just on a different level as it should be. The Pass is extremely good product. The reason Pass was not at the show with .8 product is probably because all of their inventory is at the Pass factory outlet.
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Sounds like a de facto comparison to me, even if it wasn't your original intention.

Some of your observations sound as if they could be due to the XA100.8 being underpowered for the Focal Scalas. BTW, the XA100.8 lists for $19,300 - not 28k. So the Soulution costs more than 4 1/2 times as much? The only fair Pass Labs comparison in this case is really the XS300, and despite your suspicions that the results would be the same I'd prefer an actual listening test. :)

And to be perfectly honest, I don't think the Pass Labs XP-20 is at the same level as the Soulution or Point 8/XS amplifiers - you might want to upgrade that first as it's probably your limiting factor at this point.
 
The Sandman said:
Upper midrange glare - can you give me a couple of particular tracks where you hear it? Not that I disagree - I heard something that might could be described as upper midrange glare (if you mean a slightly unpleasant sound in female vocals for example) but I'm not sure it's coming from the amplifiers but rather the Pass preamps. I fixed it in my system when I upgraded the stock fuse to a HiFi tuning ultimate fuse and used RCA caps (non-shorting for Pass) and XLR caps (also non-shorting) in all of the unused inputs and outputs. I did all of this at the same time so I can't say what made the big difference, though I suspect if was the fuse.

Regarding the XA100.8 vs Soulution amps - although the Focals are relatively efficient and have a nominal impedance of 4 ohms they are know to be a difficult load due to large dips in the impedence/phase curve. I'm not surprised the XA100.8s were outclassed by the Soulution as it wasn't a fair comparison. I'd suggest Soulution vs XS150 as a proper comparison. And a HiFi tuning fuse for your XP-20 ;).
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Howard,

Yes, I hear it in female vocals (or males if they sing up in the same register). I can also hear it in brass and flutes. If you tell me what type of music you listen to I'll find examples.

I'm very intrigued that you heard something similar and cured it with a HiFi fuse. Where does one get fuses like that and is it difficult to figure out what a compatible replacement is? I'd also like to know where to get the caps as well. I'm guessing all of this is fairly inexpensive and couldn't hurt to try.
 
madfloyd said:
Howard,

Yes, I hear it in female vocals (or males if they sing up in the same register). I can also hear it in brass and flutes. If you tell me what type of music you listen to I'll find examples.

I'm very intrigued that you heard something similar and cured it with a HiFi fuse. Where does one get fuses like that and is it difficult to figure out what a compatible replacement is? I'd also like to know where to get the caps as well. I'm guessing all of this is fairly inexpensive and couldn't hurt to try.
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I listen to just about everything. And I'll gladly purchase anything you recommend that I don't already have. :D

The fuse you need for the XP-30 is HIFi-Tuning's Supreme Large (6.3x32mm) Slow Blow (T) Type with the 2.0 amp rating. It's $90 wherever you get it. I get mine at thecableco.com. There are a few other models of the HiFi Tuning fuses, and some other brands as well. Just make sure you get a 2.0 amp large, slow blow. For at least some of the fuse brands, direction of the fuse is said to matter. I put the fuse in with the little arrow in the diagram on the fuse casing pointing in towards the chassis. It sounded really good so I didn't try reversing it, though at some point I might.

I use the Cardas caps but there are others as well. You need quite a few of them for the XP-30 (depending on how many components you have attached. They are relatively inexpensive (as in $5 to $10 per cap) for the Cardas. Make sure you get all nonshorting type caps and that you get the proper number of male and female XLR caps. Save the zip-lock baggie they come in for the Pass bypass jumpers you need to remove from the XLR inputs if you've left them in there up until now. You can also cap any other unused jacks on the rest of your components. Many components like shorting RCA caps for the inputs (not the outpusts) but not the Pass - they need non-shorting exclusively (spoke with them over the phone about it). I also purchased the Isoclean RF isolators ($115 for a set of 4) which are copper inserts for unused plugs in your wall sockets and/or power conditioner. I can't tell you that they made a big difference on their own - only that the combination of the fuses, caps, and isolators made a significant improvement.
 
PS - Whenever changing the fuse or disconnecting/reconnecting the preamp to power always pull the plug first for disconnecting and reconnect the plug last when reconnecting else you'll blow that pretty little $90 fuse. :)
 
Design Audio Video said:
I'm aware of the prices I was giving a total for amp and preamp.
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Thanks for the clarification. Are you saying that you used the XP-20 with the XA100.8 but with the Soulution amps you used the Soulution preamp? You didn't make that clear in your original post. If this is the case my comments about the preamp are that much more on point. You're right, that really wasn't a comparison at all.
 
Bottom line, Peter loves Pass and thinks so highly of their performance that he thought the XA100.8 and XP20 may hold their own against the much more expensive Soulution. Although not far off the 91k Soulution setup sounded better as it should given the price difference. I think that the fact that Peter wanted to try the much less expensive Pass gear against the more expensive Sokution gear speaks volumes about Pass Labs reputation for performance and value. Nothing more was intended and Pass owners please don't take his opinions as an attack on the Pass brand.
 
You all may have a point. The XP-20 may be partially responsible here. I have a friend who purchased the XA200.5 monos. We ran them with an XP-20 initially and felt it sounded bright and analytical. He then replaced the preamp with a Conrad-Johnson GAT preamp and it was a different story altogether. Very beautiful and spacious sounding now without a hint of harshness. I think Pass Labs makes great amps, however, I personally have never warmed up to their preamps. If the XA100.8's were run with a quality tubed preamp, it may be a better matchup.
 
Design Audio Video said:
Bottom line, Peter loves Pass and thinks so highly of their performance that he thought the XA100.8 and XP20 may hold their own against the much more expensive Soulution. Although not far off the 91k Soulution setup sounded better as it should given the price difference. I think that the fact that Peter wanted to try the much less expensive Pass gear against the more expensive Sokution gear speaks volumes about Pass Labs reputation for performance and value. Nothing more was intended and Pass owners please don't take his opinions as an attack on the Pass brand.
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I thought you wrote earlier that the Solution gear "clobbered" the Pass gear. Now it is "Although not far off(,) the 91K Soulution setup sounded better as it should...." Though I own the modest XP-20, I've had the XP-30 in my system and now know some of the 20's limitations. I'm just curious if the Pass was clobbered or just slightly worse that the Solution, in your opinion. I know full well that subtle differences to some are huge to others. Since you have described it both ways, and now that the discussion is centered around the preamp while before it was the amp, I'm hoping you could clarify your position. Thanks.
 
Design Audio Video said:
Bottom line, Peter loves Pass and thinks so highly of their performance that he thought the XA100.8 and XP20 may hold their own against the much more expensive Soulution. Although not far off the 91k Soulution setup sounded better as it should given the price difference. I think that the fact that Peter wanted to try the much less expensive Pass gear against the more expensive Sokution gear speaks volumes about Pass Labs reputation for performance and value. Nothing more was intended and Pass owners please don't take his opinions as an attack on the Pass brand.
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I didn't take anything you've posted here as ill-intentioned. I'm just trying to tease out any and all useful information contained therein and add my 2 cents to the mix.
 
I have not heard the new .8 amps with anything but a Pass preamp, so matching them up with a different brand preamp and/or tubed unit may be a positive factor in the performance of the new amps. I know it had a good effect with the older .5 amps. In the high end audio world, subtle differences are the name of the game, so take everything you read on forums with that caveat and do try out different equipment in your own systems. Personal tastes run the gamut. There's no question Pass makes some of the finest American manufactured heavy iron. Is there better out there? Sure, if you want to spend the dough. :)
 
dfwmediagroup said:
You all may have a point. The XP-20 may be partially responsible here. I have a friend who purchased the XA200.5 monos. We ran them with an XP-20 initially and felt it sounded bright and analytical. He then replaced the preamp with a Conrad-Johnson GAT preamp and it was a different story altogether. Very beautiful and spacious sounding now without a hint of harshness. I think Pass Labs makes great amps, however, I personally have never warmed up to their preamps. If the XA100.8's were run with a quality tubed preamp, it may be a better matchup.
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Interesting...have read this someplace else...maybe the same experience being described. In any event, big fan of CJ GAT. ;) I know people often swear by using same manufacturer for pre/amp (and I can totally see why), but in my case I did not have that option, and I was set on getting CJ GAT any way.
 
Looks like we may get to find out. David Baskin of Design Audio Video plans to insert a Cary SLP-05 preamp into the system with the Pass XA100.8's. So we'll discover what effect the Pass preamp played in forming our initial read on the amps.
 
I have to apologize, I attributed the divergent comments to dwf while in fact he described the comparison as being greater and it was DAV who described it as more subtle. I thought these comments were coming from the same person. Sorry.
 
To all Audiosharkers, if you feel like hearing the differences amongst all this fine equipment once and for all, it might be worth a plane ticket or a drive to go to David's shop. Lots to choose from there both speaker and electronics wise. : )
 
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