Anyone hear both Chord DAVE and Berkeley Reference? Sonic differences on PCM?

It is cheaper without the stand. I think your distributor would do well to give you a loaner to review.

Look how Lumin have acknowledged and praised your testimonials...

Paired with a U1, you could really take the Chord Dave through its paces.
 
The Chord DAVE retails for $13,300 without the optional machined stand. I haven't heard it myself, but there is one point about its operation which I don't like. There are two different versions of the system software with one being optimized for DSD (DSD+) and the other for PCM (PCM+), and there is not enough space to store them both simultaneously. Either one will allow you to play the other format but not at their optimum level, for that you have to select the desired filter and reboot the system which is supposed to take about 15-20 seconds. So you can't really play a varied format playlist with the DAC operating at its best, you'd have to reboot the DAC when changing between PCM and DSD tracks.
 
audio.bill said:
The Chord DAVE retails for $13,300 without the optional machined stand. I haven't heard it myself, but there is one point about its operation which I don't like. There are two different versions of the system software with one being optimized for DSD (DSD+) and the other for PCM (PCM+), and there is not enough space to store them both simultaneously. Either one will allow you to play the other format but not at their optimum level, for that you have to select the desired filter and reboot the system which is supposed to take about 15-20 seconds. So you can't really play a varied format playlist with the DAC operating at its best, you'd have to reboot the DAC when changing between PCM and DSD tracks.
Click to expand...

That's insane. What happens if you have a playlist of multiple PCM and DSD files? To get optimum playback of one or the other you have to reboot the DAC?
 
I find that difficult to believe let alone swallow. If that is true it is a serious design limitation and I would dismiss it off the short list alone without even listening to it. It can't be right, surely?

Perhaps that was the prototype going around the shows from May last year onwards and not the final product just released?
 
I read about this in a post from Rob Watts himself on another forum, I didn't make this up! Here is a direct excerpt from the DAVE manual on page 10 which confirms it:

DSD+ or PCM+ Mode

Dave has two menu options specifically tailored for PCM or DSD playback. You can play both PCM and DSD music using either mode, but each one is specifically optimised for a particular format. In order to cycle between each mode please highlight the segment and press both left and right navigation buttons simultaneously for one second.

PCM+ - Use this for PCM playback up to 768KHz. DSD playback up to DSD256 is also supported but it is decimated and not optimised in this mode.

DSD+ - Use this for DSD64, 128, and 256 (single, dual and quad speed) playback. There is no decimation. PCM can still be played and this mode is ideal for streaming video with audio as it has a lower delay.

Before changing modes please stop music playback and mute your amplifier to allow the clocks to resynchronise and avoid incorrect playback. Please note that when switching between PCM+or DSD+ modes there will be a 20 second delay where the display will show ‘Mute’. This is to allow the unit to program, and for the system to settle.
 
That's absurd Bill, don't you think?

That makes pushing a button on the remote of the Lampi to switch between PCM and DSD quite respectable.

FWIW - I found in my review of the Lampizator that upsampling PCM to DSD produced the best all around sound of PCM and then there is no switching required. The Lumin U1 has the horsepower to nicely do PCM to DSD on the fly.

And anyway....20 seconds? I can flip an LP faster! :)
 
At least it's not a power cycle, still 20s if you want to be pure to the format. I guess the Lumin U1 offers another choice to convert on the fly if you do not want to change DAC mode. Lots of choices but who said digital was perfect!

I dunno...maybe I'll just hang out another year, keep playing around, (caps, iFi and the Mac's) focus on building a library with the Korg ADC until making a serious commitment.
 
Steve said:
I find that difficult to believe let alone swallow. If that is true it is a serious design limitation and I would dismiss it off the short list alone without even listening to it. It can't be right, surely?

Perhaps that was the prototype going around the shows from May last year onwards and not the final product just released?
Click to expand...
Bill is correct. The Spartan FPGA chip cannot hold 2 times 164K tap length filters. The DSD optimized filter is only 82K tap length. Recall that Hugo is either 18K or 27K tap length.
DAVE also does not decimate DSD in its design, unlike Hugo.
 
Mike said:
That's absurd Bill, don't you think?

That makes pushing a button on the remote of the Lampi to switch between PCM and DSD quite respectable.

FWIW - I found in my review of the Lampizator that upsampling PCM to DSD produced the best all around sound of PCM and then there is no switching required. The Lumin U1 has the horsepower to nicely do PCM to DSD on the fly.

And anyway....20 seconds? I can flip an LP faster! :)
Click to expand...

What speed DSD can the U1 do? I mean what is the top DSD speed it can convert ppm to on the fly?
 
audio.bill said:
I agree Mike, and it's the primary reason that I'm no longer considering a DAVE DAC despite all of the rave reviews from early adopters. Vinyl sounds better anyway!
Click to expand...
Look, Chord is NOT a DSD lover, so it would not be the first Dac choice if one has a heavy DSD library like me. I think I have more DSD that PCM on my computer!
 
The Berkeley Reference seems more detailed and is for guys who are into looking at the music the way [FONT=&quot]recording and mastering engineers record and mix a CD. It is engineering excellence.

I find the DAVE also very detailed, but also more warm/ lush/ rich. The DAVE detail is part of the tapestry of the music. I also appreciate how realistically the instruments are portrayed and sketched out, and the way they emerge from a 3 dimensional stage.

No right or wrong here, depending on one's system synergy and preferences. Personally, I find the DAVE moves my emotions more. YMMV.[/FONT]
 
I have the Berkeley Reference, which I love, and would consider adding the DAVE -- but $3K for a stand!?!

Sure it may be optional but $3K is outrageous...
 
Cycleman said:
I have the Berkeley Reference, which I love, and would consider adding the DAVE -- but $3K for a stand!?!

Sure it may be optional but $3K is outrageous...
Click to expand...
2 top PCM Dacs??

Why not get a 2nd Dac that is more DSD centric?
 
wisnon said:
2 top PCM Dacs??

Why not get a 2nd Dac that is more DSD centric?
Click to expand...

Good question, simple answer: all of my music is PCM, both Red Book and higher resolution. All.
And I have no thought of going to DSD, because the music I want to listen to is never or rarely available in that format.

So, I keep my music-library life simple.

Dave, who wouldn't be entirely surprised if several people politely roar "WHAT? NO DSD?!?"
 
Dave...HQ Player (on a Server) can upsample pcm to high rate DSD and some out there rave about that sound.

This to me more justifies the cost of another pricey Dac. Otherwise, why bother with a 2nd Pcm Dac. What to gain?
 
wisnon said:
Dave...HQ Player (on a Server) can upsample pcm to high rate DSD and some out there rave about that sound.

This to me more justifies the cost of another pricey Dac. Otherwise, why bother with a 2nd Pcm Dac. What to gain?
Click to expand...

Ah, but since my server is an Aurender, I don't believe I can use HQ Player.
(And since this is the best SQ I've ever had at home, not about to change away from the Aurender.)

But why bother with a 2nd PCM DAC? What's to gain?

Well, first of off, simple curiosity. I never underestimate how the sheer desire to personally know "what's this? what's that?" drives me in life.

But in addition, as Boogieman wrote (quoted below), and as I've heard from other sources, the Chord DAVE and the Berkeley Reference offer somewhat different types of musical pleasure. So the gain is potential high-end variety, and all that.

Thanks for your perspective,

Dave, who will have to play around with budgets

Boogieman said:
The Berkeley Reference seems more detailed and is for guys who are into looking at the music the way recording and mastering engineers record and mix a CD. It is engineering excellence.

I find the DAVE also very detailed, but also more warm/ lush/ rich. The DAVE detail is part of the tapestry of the music. I also appreciate how realistically the instruments are portrayed and sketched out, and the way they emerge from a 3 dimensional stage.

No right or wrong here, depending on one's system synergy and preferences. Personally, I find the DAVE moves my emotions more. YMMV.
Click to expand...
 
Ok Dave, its an in home demo to see if it can replace the Berk ref. In that case, ignore my previous comments. I thought you were looking to keep 2 Dacs.
 
wisnon said:
Ok Dave, its an in home demo to see if it can replace the Berk ref. In that case, ignore my previous comments. I thought you were looking to keep 2 Dacs.
Click to expand...

Oh, but I might potentially keep both, for their different sound quality.

I really like variety, even when it might seem subtle to others.

So now I cannot ignore your comments, right? <smile>

Dave, who also among all his bicycles has more than one bicycle of the same model but he built up each one differently to give variety in another sphere of his obsessions
 
Of course you cant Dave. LoL

Have fun. The DAVE is a good PCM dac for sure. I heard the Ref only briefly. I am more familiar with the MSB Select & the Trinity Dac. The Dave to me was on par with the Select.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top