Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?

[Jerome W]

They sound how they look?

I had a chance to listen to Paul's Shindo amp/preamp this past weekend. It's very very pretty sounding and what astonished me was how quiet the backgrounds were (for tube amps). But at the end of the day, I found the Shindo gear rolled off on the top and struggling with complex/dynamic music (example: Mahler). If you listen to female vocals and acoustic guitar and that sort of thing, then they sounded oh so romantically delightful. I now better understand the love for these little green boxes.


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Mike,

Shindo is precisely about the ability to deliver all the texture and details of very complex and dynamic music.
If this kind of music did not sound good at Paul's place, imho the reason is simple. The Montille is completely unable to drive the Westminsters. You are not hearing Shindo as it was meant to sound.


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[NOLG4EVR]

Tannoy WestMinisters.

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That explains your impressions. Montille plus Tannoy. Not the best way to experience Shindo.


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[Mike]

Mike while no doubt some of the greatest speakers ever both to the eye and the ear Jonathan I suspect would say they are not an idea pairing with shindo amps.

I have no doubt they would be better suited to the mc275's.



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To clarify, his system sounds incredible and the Westies are world class speakers - right up there with Strads and a handful of others IMHO. As for the rolled off slightly, Paul believes that could be due to his CD player, and I don't disagree. As to complex dynamic music, that's the reality of most tube amps with tiny PSU's. My Pass XS amps have 300 pounds of PSU's. They laugh at Mahler and anything - anything - I can throw at them. Just no comparison.

That being said, I still can't get over how black the backgrounds were on the Shindo gear for tube amps.


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[Cucumber_jones]

Mike if it was the montille then that little guy had his work cut out for him. Also the fact that you both think it was the CD player would have been a helpful comment in your first post...


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[Petro85]

I also think most modern speakers look like a pile of shit


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hmmm i see its ok for you to express your negative opinion but others cant? im just giving my opinion on these. like i do any other product on this forum. doesnt matter the manufacturer. only in this shindo forum, people take it personally. even when they dont even own the product in question.
its funny you think only the people who dont like shindo are ones who never heard shindo.
very very untrue.
lighten up some will ya , i hate my speakers too, and alot of others that i comment about .
these speaker look like a diy joke to me. sorry.

 

[briguy]

To clarify, his system sounds incredible and the Westies are world class speakers - right up there with Strads and a handful of others IMHO. As for the rolled off slightly, Paul believes that could be due to his CD player, and I don't disagree. As to complex dynamic music, that's the reality of most tube amps with tiny PSU's. My Pass XS amps have 300 pounds of PSU's. They laugh at Mahler and anything - anything - I can throw at them. Just no comparison.

That being said, I still can't get over how black the backgrounds were on the Shindo gear for tube amps.


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On the black background... we always had to wait until the music started playing to adjust the volume. Even turned up loud, there was no telling humming from the speakers that let's you know you've set the volume way too high. I think this is partly responsible for why everything sounds so airy. There's just more/better space between the music.

 

[Cucumber_jones]

Tannoy recommends 50w to 225 watts for these speakers. The montille is well below this. I think it is 18 watts at the most.


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[Mike]

On the black background... we always had to wait until the music started playing to adjust the volume. Even turned up loud, there was no telling humming from the speakers that let's you know you've set the volume way too high. I think this is partly responsible for why everything sounds so airy. There's just more/better space between the music.

I agree. I was simply amazed at the blackest black backgrounds. I don't remember reading that about Shindo gear before. It also tonally sounded so beautiful - but I'm sure the Westies had something to do with that too.

As I said, color me green, I was impressed. Paul has a real keeper system. I do think a pair of CCQ's or the SET 300b amp would be the icing on the cake.


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[Paul]

I will chime in since Mike mention my system.

I had these in my system .

I have both speakers in the system with DeVore O/96

and Yes they do shows some struggle with complex and dynamic music. I had more gears come and go last 6 months ( more than Mike LOL)

I heard better amps on my Westies and O/96 in terms of dynamics,punch and speed (i.g : The Tenor and Allnic ) but no other brand produced the vocal better than Shindo period.

P.S; All the spec is a joke I don't believe in that. Sorry.

 

[Cucumber_jones]

hmmm i see its ok for you to express your negative opinion but others cant? im just giving my opinion on these. like i do any other product on this forum. doesnt matter the manufacturer. only in this shindo forum, people take it personally. even when they dont even own the product in question.
its funny you think only the people who dont like shindo are ones who never heard shindo.
very very untrue.
lighten up some will ya , i hate my speakers too, and alot of others that i comment about .
these speaker look like a diy joke to me. sorry.

Actually I don't roam threads insulting things other people like. I am not suggesting that you do. People just seem to pop up in shindo threads expressing negative opinions and they have never even need a shindo system that is properly set up and put together.


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[Face]

I find the Shindo gorgeous.
They have a " form follows function" appearance and they look like art to me.

It's a plywood box with dowels attached at the sides. I wouldn't call them ugly, but IMO, they don't look like anything special either. How about a fancy veneer, or something to lessen diffraction such as roundovers, etc...

 

[Cucumber_jones]

I will chime in since Mike mention my system.

I had these in my system .

I have both speakers in the system with DeVore O/96

and Yes they do shows some struggle with complex and dynamic music. I had more gears come and go last 6 months ( more than Mike LOL)

I heard better amps on my Westies and O/96 in terms of dynamics,punch and speed (i.g : The Tenor and Allnic ) but no other brand produced the vocal better than Shindo period.

Yeah vocals are insane. These amps are not over 50w either. They are awesome though.


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[KeithR]

They sound how they look?

I had a chance to listen to Paul's Shindo amp/preamp this past weekend. It's very very pretty sounding and what astonished me was how quiet the backgrounds were (for tube amps). But at the end of the day, I found the Shindo gear rolled off on the top and struggling with complex/dynamic music (example: Mahler). If you listen to female vocals and acoustic guitar and that sort of thing, then they sounded oh so romantically delightful. I now better understand the love for these little green boxes.

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Sounds underpowered. Seems like most Tannoy guys say 50 watts for a reason.

 

[NOLG4EVR]

Mike if it was the montille then that little guy had his work cut out for him. Also the fact that you both think it was the CD player would have been a helpful comment in your first post...


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If the CD player is still the Mac player that definitely was a serious detriment to the experience. As a transport it is ok but the DAC is awful IMO.

Just looking at the volume knob set to 11 o'clock on the VR is very revealing.

My room is nearly four times the size and ten foot ceilings. Playing at that volume level for more than a few minutes would blow me out of the room.


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[Paul]

If the CD player is still the Mac player that definitely was a serious detriment to the experience. As a transport it is ok but the DAC is awful IMO.

Just looking at the volume knob set to 11 o'clock on the VR is very revealing.

My room is nearly four times the size and ten foot ceilings. Playing at that volume level for more than a few minutes would blow me out of the room.


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FYI, I tried several CD players and Turntables .

Some can be better or worse than Shindo sounds. IMO its just what you prefer. Some will never like the Shindo some do so let's leave at that.

 

[Mike]

Sounds underpowered. Seems like most Tannoy guys say 50 watts for a reason.

Well, FWIW, I thought the Tannoy's sounded way better than the O/96's with the Shindo gear. The Tannoy's really sounded in beautiful musical harmony with the Shindo gear. Damn, I didn't want to stop listening.

As for the O/96's and Shindo, was very underwhelming. Combining gear that struggles with dynamics with speakers that do too was a bad mix IMO.

Paul had another amp there (forget the name) that sounded better with the O/96's and when I heard the O/96's at RMAF with whatever gear they were using there, they sounded better.

The thing that I find about the O/96's in general is that they sound good with female vocals, guitar, etc. But they don't seem to handle complex/dynamic music well. Maybe it's just me - but that's what I hear anyway.


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[Cucumber_jones]

Well, FWIW, I thought the Tannoy's sounded way better than the O/96's with the Shindo gear. The Tannoy's really sounded in beautiful musical harmony with the Shindo gear. Damn, I didn't want to stop listening.

As for the O/96's and Shindo, was very underwhelming. Combining gear that struggles with dynamics with speakers that do too was a bad mix IMO.

Paul had another amp there (forget the name) that sounded better with the O/96's and when I heard the O/96's at RMAF with whatever gear they were using there, they sounded better.

The thing that I find about the O/96's in general is that they sound good with female vocals, guitar, etc. But they don't seem to handle complex/dynamic music well. Maybe it's just me - but that's what I hear anyway.


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It would b interesting to know what type of music ken preferred. I cannot imagine that boutique producer like ken would not lean towards personal preferences.


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[NOLG4EVR]

Well, FWIW, I thought the Tannoy's sounded way better than the O/96's with the Shindo gear. The Tannoy's really sounded in beautiful harmony with the Shindo gear. Damn, I didn't want to stop listening.

As for the O/96's and Shindo, was very underwhelming. Combining gear that struggles with dynamics with speakers that do too was a bad mix IMO.

Paul had another amp there (forget the name) that sounded better with the O/96's and when I heard the O/96's at RMAF with whatever gear they were using there, they sounded better.

The thing that I find about the O/96's in general is that they sound good with female vocals, guitar, etc. But they don't seem to handle complex/dynamic music well. Maybe it's just me - but that's what I hear anyway.


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John would be surprised to hear that. He voiced the 0/96's with Shindo.

We all have our opinions I guess.


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[Mike]

John would be surprised to hear that. He voiced the 0/96's with Shindo.

We all have our opinions I guess.


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I've wanted to love the O/96's ever since I first heard them....and when I hear them with something like Shelby Lynn Just A Little a Loving, I think "oh man, these sound sweet". Then I put on something complex and blah...

As for Shindo and Devore, John said he uses lots of different amps at home - including SS amps which is what he likes to demo with. I can see the SS amps giving some control and needed dynamic punch to the O/96's.


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[omodo]

So what's special about how Shindo mounts a pair of Altec 604s inside of a box vice buying/building Altec 604 boxes? Does Shindo change something on the actual Altec drivers?

Sure, you could buy a pair of 604C/D/E from eBay and put them in any number of Altec cabinets/alignments or follow the advice of a multitude of forum experts, but I guarantee you won't get the results much less the live character that Shindo's tuned (& somewhat unique) cabinets and crossovers will deliver.

It's a plywood box with dowels attached at the sides. I wouldn't call them ugly, but IMO, they don't look like anything special either. How about a fancy veneer, or something to lessen diffraction such as roundovers, etc...

That veneer is Tamo Ash I believe, which is quite a "fancy" veneer. If diffraction, resonances, or such things affect your ability to connect to the music then Shindo speakers probably aren't for you.