Cucumber_jones
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Briguy if Matt suggested baltic birch plywood why would you second guess him.
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Any Shindo 604 AlNiCo owners here?
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kev313
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Well, he didn't say "baltic birch and only baltic birch will do" and I'm not a lemming.
Kev seems like the kind of guy who might have tried everything, too.
Actually, I'm using nothing but my bamboo flooring. I did try Baltic birch ply, random stacked 2x4 and maple blocks from maple shade (finished and unfinished, if it matters). Not much of a difference. In theory, depending on your floor, it should make a difference given the speaker has ports on the bottom. Matt mustve thought your floors are probably too hard or reflective of a surface.
Bongo
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Just ordered Alnico 604's in full size Latour cabinets! Briguy's input via PM was helpful- the final push as it were.
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Nice! Which wood finish did you choose?
Bongo
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Stock- the darker, walnut looking finish.
KeithR
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what do those retail for Bongo-? i've only heard the full Latour. congrats on finding a speaker 
Bongo
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what do those retail for Bongo-? i've only heard the full Latour. congrats on finding a speaker
Thanks KeithR! I'm giddy like a little girl before her first dance.
They were $34k.
Jerome W
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Briguy if Matt suggested baltic birch plywood why would you second guess him.
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Now this is a real plywood stand for a Shindo component ! :
Bongo
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That's it! Thanks.
Jerome W
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I tend to agree that 34k for such speakers seems a bit unsane.
I am not questionning the overall quality of the speakers and their sound. They must sound fabulous. But the price does not seem very logical to me.
Wilson / Magico and so on are extremely expensive to build. Owners can understand easily why.
But standard wood cases with Altec vintage drivers ???
Look at this thread :
http://ls3-5a-forum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=12508
This guy is not alone in France.
There are many talented people able to reproduce any old design.
The price to pay for such a pair of speakers is around 6k euros !
And they sound just uncredible.
Of course, they are not in the standard circuit of importator / distributor / dealer....
Bongo
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It is a good question Jerome. I hope that the speakers are worth it. The guys with the much more expensive field coil speakers seem very satisfied.
I'm sure that many audiophiles have paid large sums for audio components, the relative value of which were suspect to others, especially their friends and family! I bet that some of those individuals also regretted their purchases and moved on to other equipment, perhaps repeatedly. I doubt that spinning their wheels was their goal, but that it was costly and frustrating, none the less. It is challenging to navigate one's way through the hyperbole and subjectivism and expense of audio gear. Am I paying too much for percieved peace of mind? Not sure yet. But my goal is to acquire a system that I can enjoy for a long time, not to assemble an expensive and impressive extension of my ego (perhaps psychologically unavoidable).
I also don't want to invest even $5000 in building speakers. I have a DIY slate Lenco turntable (in the Oswalds Mill style). The ingredients: my drawing of a plinth, an autocad done by an architect friend, a slab of Pennsylivania blue slate, a local shop to water jet cut the plinth, a PTP5 mounting plate, and a Schick tonearm. Now I have a great sounding turntable. But speakers are another thing, and I expect much more difficult to build successfully, given the specifications of Shindo amps. Believe me, I considered it. Long live Troels Gravesens!
I just wanted things to sound good and to work. In New Mexico, the land of adobe, viga ceilings, brick floors, and plaster walls, the understated Japanese aesthetic looks fantastic. I doubt that I'll dislike my system, since the components are designed to work together. Only time will tell.
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Jerome W
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It is a good question Jerome. I hope that the speakers are worth it. The guys with the much more expensive field coil speakers seem very satisfied.
I'm sure that many audiophiles have paid large sums for audio components, the relative value of which were suspect to others, especially their friends and family! I bet that some of those individuals also regretted their purchases and moved on to other equipment, perhaps repeatedly. I doubt that spinning their wheels was their goal, but that it was costly and frustrating, none the less. It is challenging to navigate one's way through the hyperbole and subjectivism and expense of audio gear. Am I paying too much for percieved peace of mind? Not sure yet. But my goal is to acquire a system that I can enjoy for a long time, not to assemble an expensive and impressive extension of my ego (perhaps psychologically unavoidable).
I also don't want to invest even $5000 in building speakers. I have a DIY slate Lenco turntable (in the Oswalds Mill style). The ingredients: my drawing of a plinth, an autocad done by an architect friend, a slab of Pennsylivania blue slate, a local shop to water jet cut the plinth, a PTP5 mounting plate, and a Schick tonearm. Now I have a great sounding turntable. But speakers are another thing, and I expect much more difficult to build successfully, given the specifications of Shindo amps. Believe me, I considered it. Long live Troels Gravesens!
I just wanted things to sound good and to work. In New Mexico, the land of adobe, viga ceilings, brick floors, and plaster walls, the understated Japanese aesthetic looks fantastic. I doubt that I'll dislike my system, since the components are designed to work together. Only time will tell.
Excellent post.
I just wanted to add that I understand the high price tag of field coil speakers.
For standard magnets ones, I have serious doubts.
Bongo
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Thanks Jerome. I do feel a bit kooky for getting the 604's. I supposed that any audio purchase might be difficult to justify, when reality settles in.
But in the kooky context of un-reality, keep in mind that there is a $20k price premium for the field coil speakers! That could buy a good hifi system. Even the Shindo field coil owners are very supportive of the Alnico proposition. The decision to purchase field coils can boil down to getting a good second hand deal or simply having the money to pay for the ultimate in sound quality. It is fortunate for the owners in either case, but alas, neither applies to me.
The price tag on Shindo field coil speakers has very little to do with the price for their production. People who refer to other amateurs who are able to produce excellent replicas of famous speakers just dont get the point right.
In this chain of producer/importer/distributor/dealer the price for any given product has to be determined only to a maximum limit the market (the customer) is willing to pay for. Its the same with cars, watches or any other luxury products, the value behind the market price is negligible. So whether this speaker will be priced 20K or 40K is only a question what people are willing to pay for the luxury name of Shindo Labs and how well this brand is established in the marked in relation to other brands as a luxury product name.
So whatever Shindo has to pay for the second hand Altecs, their modification to field coils and the cabinet, it all boils down to a price tag that will be set by the importer after doing market researches and marketing in combination with the local dealers.
In this chain of producer/importer/distributor/dealer the price for any given product has to be determined only to a maximum limit the market (the customer) is willing to pay for. Its the same with cars, watches or any other luxury products, the value behind the market price is negligible. So whether this speaker will be priced 20K or 40K is only a question what people are willing to pay for the luxury name of Shindo Labs and how well this brand is established in the marked in relation to other brands as a luxury product name.
So whatever Shindo has to pay for the second hand Altecs, their modification to field coils and the cabinet, it all boils down to a price tag that will be set by the importer after doing market researches and marketing in combination with the local dealers.
kev313
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yep...But that's pretty much how everything works. It seems especially bad in audio right now where high prices (extremely high) seem to dominate. On the other hand, the sound for dollar value equation is pretty much up to the buyer and, in my experience, much of the $$$ gear leaves me cold. At least with Shindo I get the sound I want in the manner in which the maker intended. Jerome derisively refers to the importer and dealers in a manner which surely suggests some evil intent to price gouge. I, on the other hand, cast my vote the other way and found the fee for the product and their service to be reasonable.
If one views the speakers as a simple box with an old driver and a solid state power supply and nothing more, then, yes, 65k is an insane price to pay. If one views it as a piece of artistic expression as a component of a Shindo system, and, of course, the sound suits your taste, then it may be for you.
There are other avenues, so keep an open mind. That said, at the end of the day the men and women behind Shindo are the best ambassadors of the brand if you are looking to optimize the gear and their advice is a professional service for which conpensation is warranted. I think a few have tried hard to prove they were smarter and learned the Harbeth way that they did not have all the answers.
Hard way. I meant hard way.
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