Any Marantz PM-10 users?

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Mechnutt

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Hi, I will be downsizing my system within the next few months to 1 year. I am considering moving on from my Pass X250 and BAT preamp.

I have been looking at used Marantz PM-10 integrated and have some questions about the sound and hooking up a sub. I have not heard this amp but I did hear the KI Ruby and loved its tone and sound. Piano was just fabulous, some of the best that I have heard. KI has a way with gear that may not be the most resolving but the tone is just fantastic in my humble opinion.

So I guess that I want to get a feel for this amp from a user, not from a reviewer. I would be pairing this with either the Buchardt E50 speakers or possibly the Arendal 1528 Monitor speakers. The speakers are supposed to be dead neutral and I want to add a little warmth. The Fritz Carrera are another possibility but they are already warm.

Thanks for looking,

Larry
 
I owned the PM-10 and I wouldn't describe it as warm. I'd say it was pretty neutral to a bit analytical. In use it was solid and it's built like a tank. I use different cables now so I don't know how much that played into my perception of the sound at the time. I definitely thought it produced a dynamic and powerful sound.
Prices are very attractive for this amp now that the price of new ones has dropped.
 
This may not mean much my friend who is a big Marantz fan owned some Reference integrated and then the Ruby. He is now using Modwright.

I recently heard Yamaha at Axpona, the 3200 integrated, I dedicated a thread to Yamaha, you may dismiss them but the absolutely sound beautiful.. And they do so without sounding slow or overly lush. The better units are all analog though, no DAC or other bells built-in.

As a sidenote the PM10 converts all digital into DSD. I've not heard one I personally feel it would sound great based on their rep and hearing several other of their products.
 
Mr Peabody said:
This may not mean much my friend who is a big Marantz fan owned some Reference integrated and then the Ruby. He is now using Modwright.

I recently heard Yamaha at Axpona, the 3200 integrated, I dedicated a thread to Yamaha, you may dismiss them but the absolutely sound beautiful.. And they do so without sounding slow or overly lush. The better units are all analog though, no DAC or other bells built-in.

As a sidenote the PM10 converts all digital into DSD. I've not heard one I personally feel it would sound great based on their rep and hearing several other of their products.
Click to expand...
You're conflating the PM 10 integrated amplifier and the SA 10 cd player which DOES convert PCM to DSD.

The PM 10 is Marantz-customized class-D integrated amplifier with no digital inputs or functionality.

The SA 10 was kind of underwhelming to me. The Luxman I replaced it with offered a generous addition of greater clarity and insight into music for me.
 
Bryan, I really like the sound of the Ruby. I like a warmer more romantic, lush sounding system. The issue with the Ruby and PM10 is that there is no way to hook up a sub. These are both differential amps. So I will only buy one if the speakers I buy don't need a sub. Otherwise I will buy an Ayon or possible a Cary SLI tube amp and go with a speaker like the Buchardt E50 and dual subs. The other speaker that I am considering is Arendal 1528 Bookshelf 8 which is a huge speaker weighing 66 pounds each. It is a 3 way with an 8 inch woofer. It needs power as it's sensitivity is 84 dB. You should listen to all the pro reviews on YouTube.

I have heard the upper level Yamaha amps and they sound very good. But they are too neutral sounding for me. I have similar tastes to K. Ishiwata from Marantz who designed all the KI gear and the PM10.

I am really going to hate selling my Magnepans, Pass X250 and BAT preamp but all are over 20 years old and my wife wants to down size the house and move to Kansas City in about 2 years when I am retired.
 
Rnrmf said:
You're conflating the PM 10 integrated amplifier and the SA 10 cd player which DOES convert PCM to DSD.

The PM 10 is Marantz-customized class-D integrated amplifier with no digital inputs or functionality.

The SA 10 was kind of underwhelming to me. The Luxman I replaced it with offered a generous addition of greater clarity and insight into music for me.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the correction. I couldn't remember if the PM10 had a DAC I was given misinformation from an AI inquiry. I'm deleting that app.
 
Rnrmf said:
You're conflating the PM 10 integrated amplifier and the SA 10 cd player which DOES convert PCM to DSD.

The PM 10 is Marantz-customized class-D integrated amplifier with no digital inputs or functionality.

The SA 10 was kind of underwhelming to me. The Luxman I replaced it with offered a generous addition of greater clarity and insight into music for me.
Click to expand...
What about the SACD 10? Anyone had experience with it?
 
GSOphile said:
What about the SACD 10? Anyone had experience with it?
Click to expand...

A couple of people on the Steve Hoffman forum own it and they are hard pressed to say it 's better than the SA-10.
Frankly, I think the jury is still out on where it compares performance wise to its competitors. The specs are quite a bit better than the SA-10.
There are one or two published reviews out on the internet, too.
 
Mechnutt said:
Hi, I will be downsizing my system within the next few months to 1 year. I am considering moving on from my Pass X250 and BAT preamp.

I have been looking at used Marantz PM-10 integrated (...)

Thanks for looking,

Larry
Click to expand...
I have been using a Marantz PM-10 amp for 7 years now. In fact i own two of them in two different set ups. The PM-10 adds just a tad of warmth to its presentation of music - but not to the extend of previous Marantz class AB amplifiers (eg. PM-11s3) and certain not tube-like sound. Despite being a class D-amplifier the PM-10 has a very analog sound to it. Very plesant sounding. Superb flow, immense soundstaging. Very dynamic - both micro and macro dynamics are brilliant. It sounds very holistic and not analytic at all. It gives you an absolutely terrific bass. I have been pairing it with seven different speakers ranging from relatively high sensitivity (93dB) speakers to very current-hungry speakers (Arendal 1528 Monitor 8 rated at 85dB). Bi-wired or single-wired...it doesn't matter. The PM-10 is capable of delivering more than enough current to drive the most demanding speakers to ear-threatening volume levels -even in a 400 sq feet room like mine. You won't regret purchasing a PM-10 for sure.
 
Hi. I recently picked up a used PM10, and for me, it's a bit complicated. Not the amp; simple as can be. The sound. Sometimes I am in heaven, and sometimes not so much. I run it with Tannoy Definition DC8ti and have also used Dynaudio Special 40. I do use a sub, and you can do it if the sub has speaker-level inputs. The sound overall is full with great low end and very detailed, but not sharp, highs. Sometimes there are pieces of the sound spectrum missing, like acoustic guitar stings can sound like there is a wet towel on them. I can say that cable changes, both speaker and source, have made noticeable difference, and that the worst sound it gives me, which honestly is still VERY good, is from Roon via NAS to PS Audio DSD. CD player and turntable both sound better to me, considerably so. BTW, the phono pre on this thing is fantastic. I suspect the DSD and PM10 maybe aren't a great pairing (and the xlr input is euro wired, so phase can be an issue). And I think the PM10 is superlatively revealing of recording quality - crap gonna sound like crap. The other thing I would note is that there is an emotional hook missing for me, in music I know very well and love. I put this down to my brain's referencing the tube hybrid sound of the PS Audio BHK pre/250 stack I mistakenly parted with. The PM10, with a good recording and friendly source, gives me 95% of what the PS Audio had (and the DSD was of course, built to play with these), and the PS were $15k of gear, so I can't really fault the Marantz here. But I do miss that emotional engagement.
 
mk70 said:
Hi. I recently picked up a used PM10, and for me, it's a bit complicated. Not the amp; simple as can be. The sound. Sometimes I am in heaven, and sometimes not so much. I run it with Tannoy Definition DC8ti and have also used Dynaudio Special 40. I do use a sub, and you can do it if the sub has speaker-level inputs. The sound overall is full with great low end and very detailed, but not sharp, highs. Sometimes there are pieces of the sound spectrum missing, like acoustic guitar stings can sound like there is a wet towel on them. I can say that cable changes, both speaker and source, have made noticeable difference, and that the worst sound it gives me, which honestly is still VERY good, is from Roon via NAS to PS Audio DSD. CD player and turntable both sound better to me, considerably so. BTW, the phono pre on this thing is fantastic. I suspect the DSD and PM10 maybe aren't a great pairing (and the xlr input is euro wired, so phase can be an issue). And I think the PM10 is superlatively revealing of recording quality - crap gonna sound like crap. The other thing I would note is that there is an emotional hook missing for me, in music I know very well and love. I put this down to my brain's referencing the tube hybrid sound of the PS Audio BHK pre/250 stack I mistakenly parted with. The PM10, with a good recording and friendly source, gives me 95% of what the PS Audio had (and the DSD was of course, built to play with these), and the PS were $15k of gear, so I can't really fault the Marantz here. But I do miss that emotional engagement.
Click to expand...
Hi, you are not supposed to run subs with the speaker level inputs on the PM-10. Marantz does not recommend it as you can damage the amp and subs. There is a work around. SVS sells a module that converts speaker level to line level. It is simple to use ans supposed to be transparent. I am going to buy one. How it works it that you will connect a second set of speaker cables is a special configuration. Then, run the speaker cables with banana's into the SVS Sound Path Module. The Module can do stereo bass. It sells for $79. Believe me, I researched the crap out of this and even spoke with SVS and Martin Logan regarding this.

www.svsound.com

SVS SoundPath Speaker Level Subwoofer Adapter

Converts integrated amplifier and component speaker-level outputs to line-level RCA outputs for safe connection to a powered subwoofer.
www.svsound.com www.svsound.com

I have not read a bad review on the SVS module. For $79 it is a no brainer.

Right now, I have a love hate relationship with the PM-10. It does lack bass but it is very detailed and has a huge sound stage with great air and transparency. Most music sounds great but some not so much. I use Audirvana as a music player and I downloaded a VST3 parametric equalizer from MEqualizier and it has added the much needed bass and tone. It is transparent in that it does not degrade the sound and easily bypassed.

I have also ordered some Duelund DCS 16ga XLRS to try with it. If I like the sound, then I will add their 12ga speaker wire.

The jury is still out on the PM-10 as it is so different compared to my Pass X250 and BAT preamp. In some ways it sounds better (more detail and wider and taller sound stage.

I had bought the Marantz PM-KI Ruby before the PM-10 and ended up selling it because it needed a bit more detail. I loved the sound though. Tonally rich, warm, lush midrange, powerful deep bass but not the fastest but extremely pleasing. I could listen to the Ruby for hours without fatigue but I was missing the micro details of a lot of music. Too bad because I really wanted to love it. Another issue with it was that most music sounded fabulous but some music not so much.

If I move on from the PM-10, I am going to try and find a good deal on a used Gen 2 or Gen 3 Ayon Triton as I need the 135 wpc for the Arendal 1528 speakers which are only 84 db sensitivity and they really soak up the power, even on the 400 wpc PM-10 at 4 ohms.

I did not realize that the Marantz uses the European config for XLR. I am going to have to rewire my XLR's. I just ordered my Duelund XLRS via the USA system. Shoot!

I can't believe that Marantz did not put a phase inversion switch. My BAT and Luxman DAC have one.
 
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Mechnutt said:
Hi, you are not supposed to run subs with the speaker level inputs on the PM-10. Marantz does not recommend it as you can damage the amp and subs. There is a work around. SVS sells a module that converts speaker level to line level. It is simple to use ans supposed to be transparent. I am going to buy one. How it works it that you will connect a second set of speaker cables is a special configuration. Then, run the speaker cables with banana's into the SVS Sound Path Module. The Module can do stereo bass. It sells for $79. Believe me, I researched the crap out of this and even spoke with SVS and Martin Logan regarding this.

www.svsound.com

SVS SoundPath Speaker Level Subwoofer Adapter

Converts integrated amplifier and component speaker-level outputs to line-level RCA outputs for safe connection to a powered subwoofer.
www.svsound.com www.svsound.com

I have not read a bad review on the SVS module. For $79 it is a no brainer.

Right now, I have a love hate relationship with the PM-10. It does lack bass but it is very detailed and has a huge sound stage with great air and transparency. Most music sounds great but some not so much. I use Audirvana as a music player and I downloaded a VST3 parametric equalizer from MEqualizier and it has added the much needed bass and tone. It is transparent in that it does not degrade the sound and easily bypassed.

I have also ordered some Duelund DCS 16ga XLRS to try with it. If I like the sound, then I will add their 12ga speaker wire.

The jury is still out on the PM-10 as it is so different compared to my Pass X250 and BAT preamp. In some ways it sounds better (more detail and wider and taller sound stage.
Click to expand...
Mechnutt said:
I had bought the Marantz PM-KI Ruby before the PM-10 and ended up selling it because it needed a bit more detail. I loved the sound though. Tonally rich, warm, lush midrange, powerful deep bass but not the fastest but extremely pleasing. I could listen to the Ruby for hours without fatigue but I was missing the micro details of a lot of music. Too bad because I really wanted to love it. Another issue with it was that most music sounded fabulous but some music not so much.

If I move on from the PM-10, I am going to try and find a good deal on a used Gen 2 or Gen 3 Ayon Triton as I need the 135 wpc for the Arendal 1528 speakers which are only 84 db sensitivity and they really soak up the power, even on the 400 wpc PM-10 at 4 ohms.

I did not realize that the Marantz uses the European config for XLR. I am going to have to rewire my XLR's. I just ordered my Duelund XLRS via the USA system. Shoot!

I can't believe that Marantz did not put a phase inversion switch. My BAT and Luxman DAC have one.
Click to expand...

I just may take the easy route and reverse the +/- at the speakers to fix the phase issue. Seems way easier than taking apart the XLR's to swap the + and - pins on every cable.

Does anyone know if this will correct the phase. I just read some conflicting opinions?
 
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