Another Roon Heavy Handed Policy

[Jack]

Randy

There is nothing snarky about my comment in fact in your last two posts you are making my point for me. There are a handful of guys on this forum, some of whom go from forum to forum everyday, defending and promoting Roon as if they were Roon employees. It is just a piece of software not a "religious movement" even though it is treated as such by a group of people. They are not the only option for digital playback and there are many that would claim just as fervently as you that it is not the best either. The people at Aurender, Auralic, Lumin, Innuos, and many others are doing just fine with their own software and did before there was Roon and would continue to do so if it went away. In fact not being in the "Roon camp" has not hurt Aurender at all based on their sales and recent hardware releases. Just like every time a "newbie" comes on this forum and asks about getting into streaming the same group immediately starts up with the multi-box Roon setups when all the person may need is a basic streamer until they acclimated but that is not the kind of recommendation they get. If this did not apply to you then you would not have responded as if you are personally offended. And just as you claim to have the right to express your opinion over and over so do I and will do so every time this starts up.

As to Aqua if Roon wants to test and certify the Roon Module which was submitted to them then do so but they have no right to examine separate modules that have nothing to do with the operation of their software. And just to throw their weight around stall the certification until they got there way. That's my opinion and I am not alone.

As to you not buying a device that's not "Roon Certified" you have stated on more occasions than I can count that you think building your own box is the best way so you will never buy one anyway. So not sure why it matters to you at all.

 

[Devg]

There are a handful of guys on this forum, some of whom go from forum to forum everyday, defending and promoting Roon as if they were Roon employees. It is just a piece of software not a "religious movement" even though it is treated as such by a group of people.

Talk about cult and this is one of the finest example in audio industry. Man, ever talk in Roon forums against their s/w and pointing our flaws and where they can improve and you will be hammered to death by the same fan followers over and over again....such a mess where they can't even sportingly take sound advice.

Just like every time a "newbie" comes on this forum and asks about getting into streaming the same group immediately starts up with the multi-box Roon setups when all the person may need is a basic streamer until they acclimated but that is not the kind of recommendation they get.

People who recommends multi-box setup just don't realize that the protocols (ROON RAAT) employing these multiple boxes is actually lossy. Sometimes simplifying things benefits SQ.

As to Aqua if Roon wants to test and certify the Roon Module which was submitted to them then do so but they have no right to examine separate modules that have nothing to do with the operation of their software. And just to throw their weight around stall the certification until they got there way. That's my opinion and I am not alone.

As to you not buying a device that's not "Roon Certified" you have stated on more occasions than I can count that you think building your own box is the best way so you will never buy one anyway. So not sure why it matters to you at all.

Roon actually has no right to ask for hardware that doesn't touch their s/w. Its a BS claims they make that they need the other module to certify it as Roon ready - if you design s/w properly and have proper interfaces, the rest can be just treated as a black box.

If the manufacturer is proactively giving it to them to test, that's another story but if the manufacturer (Aqua is this case) is opposed to this idea, Roon's aggressiveness is not a good sign. In the end, it actually hearts the customers. I feel bad for that poor guy who just bought the LINQ and found himself in trouble. Honestly Roon is making a big mess out of it - can't see the forest for the trees!

 

[Rob181]

I feel bad for that poor guy who just bought the LINQ and found himself in trouble. Honestly Roon is making a big mess out of it - can't see the forest for the trees!

Bingo!!!! Couldn't have said it better myself...

 

[Randy Myers]

Yes Jack you are right and all people who enjoy Roon are wrong...

Every time there is a discussion about Roon there are a few people that come in and start saying negative things about the product. Whenever one of the people who enjoy their product come in and express their positive experiences some people start the snarky remarks, like those that enjoy the product are wrong in defending it. It is rather hypocritical.

Roon certified and Roon ready is for DACs also and that is what I am referring to.

Oh, and for the record, I do not post on any other forum, about Roon or other products other than headphone discussions very occasionally on Head-Fi...

And once again here we go, gaining up on members who were in fact having a good discussion before others started changing the tone. Thank you once again... you few make coming to AS just so enjoyable.

Anyway, I will not be pulled into this again....

 

[Jack]

It's only a good discussion to you if nobody disagrees with you and your specific philosophy about how streaming should work. Never said you were wrong about what you believe is right for you but it is not the answer for everyone as you seem to believe. I have owned seven different streamers from five different companies and run more streaming software suites than that so I have a little experience on the subject as opposed to just having one approach. It just doesn't have to be your approach and I don't try to convince everyone else that it is the best way like the Roon gang does. Roon is only one way and not the only way and certainly not the only right way. That is my point this time and every time but you don't seem to grasp that but instead try to make out that it is personal and say you are out yet you never are.

Also none your points in your last post has anything to do with the current topic in this thread which is Roon demanding to have in their possession the three LinQ modules that have nothing to do with Roon before they agree to complete certification. Instead as usual always in defense of anything Roon from UI, sound, to their policies. That type of stance has nothing to do with "enjoying Roon" but goes far beyond that.

 

[Elberoth]

Randy
As to Aqua if Roon wants to test and certify the Roon Module which was submitted to them then do so but they have no right to examine separate modules that have nothing to do with the operation of their software. And just to throw their weight around stall the certification until they got there way. That's my opinion and I am not alone.

I think you are wrong here.

Aqua Roon module is not stand alone, like MSB Renderer module for example.

All Aqua LinQ modules share a single Ethernet input, so I agree with Roon that input switching between say UPNP and Roon may potentially cause issues.

I'm pretty sure, that MSB hasn't been asked to provide all SPDIF / analog IO modules for testing with their DACs as they are different in concept.

 

[wklie]

I do not know what other manufacturers were required to submit for their certification process, but I do know that Roon Ready "convenience switching" requirement applies to both Ethernet and non-Ethernet inputs, i.e. a Roon Ready device must automatically switch from (stop) the other input (SPDIF, USB input, UPnP, NAA, Spotify Connect, etc.) upon Roon playback, without any glitch and without requiring user intervention.

 

[eziggy]

I do not know what other manufacturers were required to submit for their certification process, but I do know that Roon Ready "convenience switching" requirement applies to both Ethernet and non-Ethernet inputs, i.e. a Roon Ready device must automatically switch from (stop) the other input (SPDIF, USB input, UPnP, NAA, Spotify Connect, etc.) upon Roon playback, without any glitch and without requiring user intervention.

That’s a really big ask for manufacturers and I imagine makes architecture more complicated. I get making it easy for the end user but that would agitate me as a manufacturer. Seems like they want others to manufacture audio components for them vs. trying to work with the manufacturers to create an proper ecosystem. They want to be the Apple of high end audio but don’t want to make the hardware.

If Roon wants to make this easier for the end user how about they start by fixing the large amount of bugs in their server and iPad app. Not sure how long they will last as more and more manufacturers, then users, hop off their bandwagon. Many of the very high end manufacturers are adding Roon as a cool feature since users ask for it. They mostly focus their generally limited R&D budget on the sound produced not on networking components.

The way this is all unforlding I imagine Roon will end up supporting a hand full of streaming devices that can be added to a system. If you want it then buy the supported component and connect it to your DAC.

 

[NekoAudio]

Roon's requirement is described in this Roon forum post and the same thread also contains a video that shows one user's LinQ failing to behave as required.

To my knowledge, the same sort of requirement applies to every other multi-tenant device using OTT services and applications, because if the suspended or backgrounded activity still continued even after you switched away then things would never be in the correct state from the user perspective.

 

[Devg]

I have played with Roon core/bridge/rock for quiet a bit and still like and use it on regular basis (though its not the best SQ playback s/w in my setup) but I am still not able to understand this ask. Perhaps I do not understand Roon Ready well enough but isn’t it of the best interest of the manufacturers themselves to actually test the input switching and fix it in case it doesn’t work ? This looks like a basic test to me. Why should Roon have to test when it requires other hardware that doesn’t involve Roon - I understand its their policy for certification but their policy seems out of bounds.

What do you do if, say for LInQ HQP module Miska (Hqp developer) has objection to send something running his code to other 3rd parties for verification ? It gets very dubious when there is a conflict of interest.

This looks more like a paranoia stemming out for the control in the name of software redistribution.

 

[Devg]

To my knowledge, the same sort of requirement applies to every other multi-tenant device using OTT services and applications, because if the suspended or backgrounded activity still continued even after you switched away then things would never be in the correct state from the user perspective.

Which means two things - either you lack the proper design and interfaces or your interfaces wasn’t used appropriately. Smart brains would jointly debug and fix it, not make a big thing out of it while also being brash and arrogant. That’s what we do in our professional life. Come on, OSS has provided the world with incredibly complex softwares and for free. Roon ready is remotely far from being a rocket science!

 

[Elberoth]

Damn - I said Roon never failed me in 3 years. Now neither my iPhone or iPad roon remotes do not connect to Roon Core. They are all on the same network. I can access Roon Core via Roon PC app installed on the very same PC as Roon Core.

 

[aKnyght]

Damn - I said Roon never failed me in 3 years. Now neither my iPhone or iPad roon remotes do not connect to Roon Core. They are all on the same network. I can access Roon Core via Roon PC app installed on the very same PC as Roon Core.

make sure your iPhone and iPad are set to use wi-fi rather than cellular -- more than a few times i have had this exact problem and rebooted everything only find i simply needed to switch wi-fi back on... doh!!

alternatively, check that you wi-fi network is working properly.

 

[Elberoth]

Checked that. My iPad does not even have LTE. WiFi only.

Can ypou check if you have this feature on a Win PC Roon contol app ?

I'm supposed to check if this is set to ON, but cannot find this under Settings > General.

Accept Remote Connections

The first thing to confirm is that your main Roon install is set up to accept connections from remotes.

To do this, click the main Navigation menu (top-left of Roon) and select Settings.

Click the Settings tab, and make sure “Accept connections…” is set to Yes.

 

[aKnyght]

i am apple only -- hopefully others with a windows PC will post the location

 

[Elberoth]

OK solved the problem. I forgot that I have just changed my WiFi network to TP Link Deco X60 mesh network, and Deco X60 set itself up in router mode. So I had two routers managing the network. After manually switching the Deco X60 to Access Point mode, everything went back to normal.

 

[nicoff]

OK solved the problem. I forgot that I have just changed my WiFi network to TP Link Deco X60 mesh network, and Deco X60 set itself up in router mode. So I had two routers managing the network. After manually switching the Deco X60 to Access Point mode, everything went back to normal.

User error... I see [emoji16].
No shame in that actually and Glad you got it fixed so quickly!
Computer audio, unlike traditional analog audio, is full of little things that can trip up even computer-knowledgeable users. And that is not exclusively a Roon issue. I think that this is perhaps why some folks don’t want to deal with computers in their audio system. And that is a shame because the value proposition and rewards of a nicely set up computer audio system is just fantastic.

 

[Elberoth]

It took me 10 min to find the answer on Roon forums. Kind of embarassed I haven't searched before posting.

 

[nicoff]

It took me 10 min to find the answer on Roon forums. Kind of embarassed I haven't searched before posting.

[emoji106]
Roon Labs’ forums are an amazing resource. I recall having issues during the Slimserver days and wasting lots of time (days and weeks literally) searching different forums for answers. That is one advantage of owning an established product with a growing customer base.

 

[wklie]

It took me 10 min to find the answer on Roon forums. Kind of embarassed I haven't searched before posting.

Does that happen to be my post? I just posted yesterday to tell someone to change the TP-Link Deco to AP mode.