Anomaly between my Lumin U1Mini and my DAC

skbe said:
I keep on switching between 24b and native, and the display on the Lumin keeps displaying 32b
What’s the meaning of this?
Click to expand...

And about this Peter?
Lumin display shows 32b as in the picture above. I take the Lumin app, I set upsampling to Custom. I switch between Native and 24b, nothing happens.

Ie i can set the Lumin Custom config to 24b, the Lumin display still shows 32b. This is not a technical issue you should fix?
 
So the Lumin is accepting 32b from Roon but transporting only 24b to my 32b capable DAC

Video to follow
 
Lol do you know I was considering upgrading to Lumin U1 with another setup in another room?

For 6k do you think I will do compromises?
 
Here is the video
Lumin shows 32b, custom upsampling set to 24b, Lumin display still shows 32b, my DAC shows 24b
Lumin shows 32b, custom upsampling off or set to native, Lumin display still shows 32b, my DAC shows 24b
My conclusion is that the Lumin U1 Mini is not capable to transport 32b to my 32b DAC
I understand Peter showed us a proof of a DAC capable of reading the 32b from Lumin
But it is a big problem that these 32b are not transported to every 32b capable DAC
This is not a SQ thing, this is only something related to honesty and support

Streamable
 
Buy another 32Bit Dac and see if the same thing happens.

Dont automatically blame the Lumin, it could easily be the Sony. Or perhaps theres some sort of communication/handshake issue between them, not the fault of either. Try to reach out to Sony and see if you even get a reply.
 
I do enjoy my music no worries about this. I do even enjoy the music with my Lumin

But there is a technical issue that is not fixed. Or simply the Lumin is a 32b player is a false sentence. Because it don’t play 32b streams with all 32b DACs

And no it cannot be the Sony. As I said it shows 32b when “the test” is done with my laptop
 
Peter, sorry to insist on this
I bought a Lumin U1 Mini thinking it is a 32 bits player on 32 bits capable DAC
My DAC is 32 bits and Lumin U1 Mini does not deliver over USB 32 bits flow
So I want this solved. It is not acceptable to only make it deliver 24 bits
I want my 32 bits as it was promised in the webpage
Maybe you need to update the drivers on the USB output of the Lumin, I don't know
 
Why dont you bring it back to your Dealer, see what he can figure out for you.
 
Unfortunately this is not a problem that my dealer can deal with
This is the sadness
It is in the Lumin, the specs are not true for every configuration. Something wrong with its USB drivers
 
The test proves that Lumin is able to output 32-bit. We also output 32-bit to XMOS and ITF-based USB DAC (recent Esoteric). Every DAC is different, especially for Linux. Take native DSD for example, many DAC is able to do native DSD in Windows but not in Linux.

If your DAC shows the same problem with another Linux Roon Bridge, then your DAC has a limitation in Linux.
If your DAC shows 32-bit with another Linux Roon Bridge, then the current Lumin firmware has a limitation with your particular DAC.

Again, 32-bit data is not significant at the DAC end unless you’re doing further digital processing that is built into the DAC instead of before it (in the Roon Core).
 
The Lumin is able to output DSD to my DAC but not 32 bits. How come this limitation is only for 32 bits?

And I do further processing as I prefer the DSD upsampling of my DAC rather than Roon’s
 
skbe, a firmware update for your TA-ZH1ES was released back in 2017 that specifically:

Corrects a condition where the headphones are misidentified as a 24bit/384kHz source when playing 32bit/384kHz content from a Walkman® player
Click to expand...

Not sure how old your unit is but maybe this is related to your problem. There's an updater application for Windows and also one for Mac.

The Sony TA-ZH1ES user manual [PDF] also only mentions compatibility with Windows or Mac. It doesn't indicate any compatibility with Linux. But it also says the USB audio driver would be automatically installed on Windows 7 and 8, which is a little odd to me because it was Windows 10 that first added automatic support for USB Audio 2.0. But maybe Sony registered something with Microsoft.

You may wish to ask Sony if there is a 32-bit issue with some transports. Historically, USB Audio has generally only worked exactly as expected from a Mac.
 
NekoAudio said:
skbe, a firmware update for your TA-ZH1ES was released back in 2017 that specifically:



Not sure how old your unit is but maybe this is related to your problem. There's an updater application for Windows and also one for Mac.

The Sony TA-ZH1ES user manual [PDF] also only mentions compatibility with Windows or Mac. It doesn't indicate any compatibility with Linux. But it also says the USB audio driver would be automatically installed on Windows 7 and 8, which is a little odd to me because it was Windows 10 that first added automatic support for USB Audio 2.0. But maybe Sony registered something with Microsoft.

You may wish to ask Sony if there is a 32-bit issue with some transports. Historically, USB Audio has generally only worked exactly as expected from a Mac.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your attempt to help me
Really appreciate it
I am aware of this and it is already installed it
This firmware update is to correct something with Walkman input
I am using the USB B input
 
Mr Lie

here my latest questions about this Lumin anomaly. We need the truth, Mr Lie.

Where in this leaflet it is said that Lumin is Linux based and then not working flawlessly with a large population of DACs, those not Linux prepared?

http://www.luminmusic.com/downloads/LUMIN-U1-Mini-leaflet.pdf

Secondly, did you try your Lumin USB output with at least one Windows/Mac compatible DAC?

Lastly, how come the Lumin does not correctly output 32b but seems to correctly output DSD? Knowing this, can it still be a Linux/Non Linux compatibility problem?
 
It isn't typical for audio electronics, or really any consumer electronics, to include in the general marketing and user documents detailed technical information about the hardware and software stack. It's not like your Denon receiver identifies which processors, operating system, and hardware drivers it is using. Neither does your microwave or printer. This is generally fine because it doesn't matter (and it would only confuse consumers) as the communication is almost always based on some sort of standard, in this case USB Audio.

Because it is using a standard protocol, as long as the two endpoints can agree on the data being send between them, then things will work. But sometimes the full set of data encodings / sub-protocols doesn't match, and so only a subset will work. It's a bit misleading to say a DAC is "Windows/Mac compatible", as really it's more appropriate to say something like a DAC is USB Audio 1.0, or 2.0, or 3.0 compatible and then also indicate what bit-depths and sample rates it works with, for given data encodings and sub-protocols. For example, a DAC might say it supports 24-bit/192kHz LPCM but does not support 32-bit/384kHz LPCM, even if it was using USB Audio 2.0 in both cases.

The Lumin U1 Mini absolutely works with DACs that are "Windows/Mac compatible" in the sense it works with DACs that accept USB Audio (probably 2.0).

DSD over USB Audio is really DSD over PCM over USB Audio. Support for DSD over PCM of whatever sample rate is somewhat orthogonal to support of a specific LPCM bit depth, since they're not going to be encoded/interpreted the same. Going back to the paragraph above, support for the DSD data encoding / internal protocol that is working for you doesn't really have any specific bearing on support for the 32-bit LPCM data encoding / internal protocol that isn't working for you.

Based on your experience, I can only assume that the U1 Mini and the TA-ZH1ES don't agree on something related to 32-bit LPCM, but I couldn't really say what. When two endpoints are unable to communicate properly, you can't really blame one or the other unless one of them is obviously speaking incorrectly (the U1 Mini speaks 32-bit with other DACs, and your TA-ZH1ES speaks 32-bit with other sources, and they both claim support so I don't think we can conclude for certain one of them is speaking incorrectly) or using a non-standard/non-fully-compliant "dialect", possibly by design or due to a bug (this seems more likely, but without examining the data over the wire one can't really say which side is at fault). Personally I think it would be worth your time to also ask Sony if there are any known issues with 32-bit LPCM over USB input.
 
Thank you for your time I learned things

However:
NekoAudio said:
It isn't typical for audio electronics, or really any consumer electronics, to include in the general marketing and user documents detailed technical information about the hardware and software stack. It's not like your Denon receiver identifies which processors, operating system, and hardware drivers it is using. Neither does your microwave or printer. This is generally fine because it doesn't matter (and it would only confuse consumers) as the communication is almost always based on some sort of standard, in this case USB Audio.
Click to expand...

No need to tell me about microwaves and wash dishers. Auralic clearly stipulates their streamers are Linux and may not work well with non Linux DACs. Lumin should have said the same in the leaflet

You are not a simple user like me that an investment of 2k needs to be worth it. You are an audio reseller with a shop in San Jose, California. And you sell Lumins. Do you sell Auralics as well?

I imagine if a customer comes to you in the future and says he wants a Lumin for its Sony TAxxxx DAC, you would tell him the truth, right?

Best
 
skbe said:
Do you sell Auralics as well?
Click to expand...
No, we don't carry Auralic. I have experience with them and recommend them as an option to some people depending what they're looking for.

skbe said:
I imagine if a customer comes to you in the future and says he wants a Lumin for its Sony TAxxxx DAC, you would tell him the truth, right?
Click to expand...
Since pretty much all audio streamers are running Linux or another embedded OS that uses USB audio drivers more closely related to the Linux than not, I would mention that I've read online of someone who had a problem with 32-bit LPCM playback and their TA-ZH1ES. That if one is considering the TA-ZH1ES and cares about 32-bit LPCM playback, then this is something they should be aware of.

I'm simply trying to steer you in the direction of asking Sony, because in my opinion they're likely the only people who can give you the answer you're looking for.
 
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