An ugly secret...

I had read that. There is definitely a distinction between a review and a "first impression" piece like at a show or a couple of hours at somebodies house or showroom etc.
 
Mike.......I'm with Jeff Fritz on this one. Demoing gear in a distributor or retail location is not a true review in my opinion, it is a report on a demo with unfamiliar gear in an unfamiliar environment. That is quite different than bringing a component into your room, connected with equipment you are intimately familiar with, and have the time to spend with a reviewed component that extends over a decent period, not just a couple of hours at best. A demo presented as a review is actually a masquerading advertisement in my opinion. This is often what a distributor or dealer hopes it will be, and best of all for those sponsoring the demo there is no advertising cost associated with the ink and distributed word. If the circumstances of the demonstration are revealed, there is nothing hidden. A reader can put as much or as little faith in that sort of reporting as he wishes, but at least everyone is aware that this is the lazy version of auditioning and reporting on equipment. As such this type of reporting cannot carry the same validity as an extended review in a known reference system.

I have written sixty or so equipment reviews over the past six to eight years on everything from SACD/CD players, amplifiers, preamplifiers, integrated amplifiers, DAC's, music servers, speakers, assorted add-on devices, and cables. All have come to me brand new for the most part. I spent anywhere from 120 to 300 hours breaking in this gear before putting fingers to keyboard in an effort to relay my thoughts, discoveries, likes, dislikes, and general impressions. I was honored to have my McIntosh MC601 review posted on the SoundStageUltra website several years ago. Like Jeff, I consider the time spent getting to know an audio component, hearing it mature as it breaks in, and spending plenty of hours becoming acquainted with what it adds to a reference sound system offers more useful information to a reader than a casual 120 minutes with a component in an unfamiliar setup. Yes, I'm old school too. Bravo to Jeff Fritz for his article and pulling back the curtain on this issue.
 
XV-1 said:
Mono & Stereo are the absolute worst at this " fake review" syndrome. How an afternoon audition at Gryphon headquarters can be listed as a review is beyond me. Total BS.

http://www.monoandstereo.com/2016/02/gryphon-audio-pendragon-loudspeakers.html
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Agreed! Like I said, AS members like Dan's review of the N10 in his system are way more valuable.

Show and system commentary is one thing. But a review? Come on...

A friend of mine with one of the mags told me he thinks the future is sites like AS. The reviews in the mags, have become, for the most part, that lopsided. Can you imagine if car reviews were like audio reviews?

Reviews don't have to be mean and overly negative, but they should point out ALL the quirks and downsides the reviewers find. No product is perfect and we accept that. Also, flavoring and tastes come into play. We get that.

Where's MEP?
 
Mike said:
Agreed! Like I said, AS members like Dan's review of the N10 in his system are way more valuable.

Show and system commentary is one thing. But a review? Come on...

A friend of mine with one of the mags told me he thinks the future is sites like AS. The reviews in the mags, have become, for the most part, that lopsided. Can you imagine if car reviews were like audio reviews?

Reviews don't have to be mean and overly negative, but they should point out ALL the quirks and downsides the reviewers find. No product is perfect and we accept that. Also, flavoring and tastes come into play. We get that.

Where's MEP?
Click to expand...

These types of afternoon listening sessions masqueraded to be reviews are also an insult to real reviewers that spend months living with a product to understand its strengths and weaknesses.

Part advertorial, part " look at me ego " is all I can deduce from these types of fake reviews.
 
XV-1 said:
These types of afternoon listening sessions masqueraded to be reviews are also an insult to real reviewers that spend months living with a product to understand its strengths and weaknesses.

Part advertorial, part " look at me ego " is all I can deduce from these types of fake reviews.
Click to expand...

Bingo! Agree 100%


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Mike said:
A friend of mine with one of the mags told me he thinks the future is sites like AS. The reviews in the mags, have become, for the most part, that lopsided. Can you imagine if car reviews were like audio reviews?
Click to expand...
Agreed, though strictly speaking more of a preview, the NZ Magico Distributor Terry Humphries chose to post my review of the S5 Mk2 on his website which was a nice compliment. Maybe that has a bit to do with my writing skills, though I suspect it has more to do with the fact I already owned and was very familiar with the S5 Mk1 & got off my butt to ensure the write up was as thorough and accurate as possible. As a result, I think it is still the most thorough/accurate preview posted on the web.
 
Mike said:
http://www.soundstageultra.com/inde...ly-secret-when-reviews-are-not-really-reviews

Interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Definitely agree with Jeff here.

It is not too uncommon people confuse off-the-cuff comments or casual sit-downs with a product for a review and quote them as such.

Similarly, aficionados sometimes state strong views about a product based on trade show visits or a one-time dealer auditioning. While it is possible to get a first impression based on such, you can only really tell when hearing a component in a familiar acoustic environment (own room) and a familiar chain (own components) over a period of time. Just as Jeff says.


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Mike said:
Agreed! Like I said, AS members like Dan's review of the N10 in his system are way more valuable.

Show and system commentary is one thing. But a review? Come on...

A friend of mine with one of the mags told me he thinks the future is sites like AS. The reviews in the mags, have become, for the most part, that lopsided. Can you imagine if car reviews were like audio reviews?

Reviews don't have to be mean and overly negative, but they should point out ALL the quirks and downsides the reviewers find. No product is perfect and we accept that. Also, flavoring and tastes come into play. We get that.

Where's MEP?
Click to expand...

I'm right here. Those of you that read XV-1's comment above and went to the link can figure out who he is talking about. I will leave it at that. As for the OP, I have to agree with what Jeff Fritz said. If you don't review a component in your house and in your system for an extended period of time, whatever you write is an impression and does not qualify as a review. If you go to an audio show and visit 50 rooms, does that mean you can write 50 "reviews?" The answer is NO.

It seems like it is very popular to criticize real reviews and real reviewers on most all audio forums and AS is no exception. There is usually at least one open thread on most every audio forum discussing how stupid reviewers are, how crappy their systems and rooms are, how dishonest they are, how deaf they are, how much of a Magico or Wilson "fanboy" they are, and on and on and on. I try and stay out of the fray. Everybody has a choice not to read reviews or particular reviewers if they so choose. Some people claim they love negative reviews and reviewers don't write enough of them until it's a negative review of a component they own and believe in. Then the reviewer is the dumbest guy that ever walked the face of the earth because he doesn't realize how great the component really is. It's probably always going to be a popular pastime to trash reviewers on audio forums. I get it.

Someone else previously addressed the fact that reviewers do try and review components they are interested in hearing. As was said before, who wants to spend 2-3 months of their precious life reviewing something they know they are going to hate? It simply doesn't make sense. I certainly try and avoid reviewing gear that I don't think I will enjoy. Sometimes interesting things happen though. Everybody who knows anything about me and has read some of my digital reviews knows that I'm not a fan of PCM. I do like DSD and I can listen to it for prolonged periods in my system. Imagine my surprise when a company who manufactures a PCM system (computer/server, power supply, and DAC) asked for me by name to review his PCM rig. Why did he do that you might ask? I know I asked myself that question. The answer was he was so confident of how good his PCM gear sounded that he thought he could convert me over to PCM. I appreciated his moxy and took the review on. At the end of my review, my comment was that I wouldn't be forsaking DSD. However, at the time I reviewed the Mojo gear, it was the best sounding PCM I had ever heard in my system. For the here and now, I would have to give that honor to the PS Audio DSJ. Of course the DSJ 'cheats' because it converts all PCM to DSD. I think it's a killer DAC for the money.

And when Mike talks about pointing out "ALL the quirks and downsides," it's not like I haven't done that when I felt it was necessary. I reviewed a Lampizator DAC before they became well known and documented the things I didn't like about it complete with taking pictures so people could see what I saw http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue73/lampizator.htm

If anybody thinks being a reviewer is a walk in the park, they really should try it sometime. In the meantime, I do list what gear I own that makes up my reference system. I never list gear that I have in house for review as being part of my reference system because it's not. I have been quite open with taking pictures of my system and room so that those who love to take pot shots can have some ammunition if they so choose. I only write reviews after the gear has been in my system for usually 2-3 months and sometimes longer.
 
It seems absolutely mental to make a review based of a maybe 4-5 hour visit? To make a review, you must bring the products home with you, to listen to the items in a familiar environment. It's like test driving a sport car in Sahara?
 
Hi I would beg to differ with Jeff on the visiting vs home demo point


The problem with in-home reviews is that you are limited by your room and set-up. If I get a lyra Atlas and put it in mine, for 1 week or 8 weeks, it means nothing. It means it worked in mine, or did not, with my limited knowledge, budget and skills.


The best is, to average things out. You travel to visit people who have already developed a skill set in setting up that gear - listen to the Lyra in different systems, rooms, and on turntables. If it always sounds rolled off, it is. If it always sounds detailed, quick, etc etc, it is.


I compared Lampi to my ex-dacs in my system. Wow - bought it. But then, I took the Lampi to other systems, both audiophiles and dealers for compare. Try to beat that averaging methodology and the consistency.


Restored Apogees are my favorite speakers - I have heard only 3 systems I like them in, and many I don't. Imagine what review I would have written if I had got one that I did not like and kept it for 8 weeks.


You have to impressions of gear in different rooms and different set up. I find most audiophile impressions hampered by their own set up - in fact, their limited set-up becomes an "incorrect" reference.

If you really find someone saying WOW based on a 4-5 hour visit - visit that place - there might be something to learn


 
bonzo said:
Hi I would beg to differ with Jeff.


The problem with in-home reviews is that you are limited by your room and set-up. If I get a lyra Atlas and put it in mine, for 1 week or 8 weeks, it means nothing. It means it worked in mine, or did not, with my limited knowledge, budget and skills.


The best is, to average things out. You travel to visit people who have already developed a skill set in setting up that gear - listen to the Lyra in different systems, rooms, and on turntables. If it always sounds rolled off, it is. If it always sounds detailed, quick, etc etc, it is.


I compared Lampi to my ex-dacs in my system. Wow - bought it. But then, I took the Lampi to other systems, both audiophiles and dealers for compare. Try to beat that averaging methodology and the consistency.


Restored Apogees are my favorite speakers - I have heard only 3 systems I like them in, and many I don't. Imagine what review I would have written if I had got one that I did not like and kept it for 8 weeks.


You have to impressions of gear in different rooms and different set up. I find most audiophile impressions hampered by their own set up - in fact, their limited set-up becomes an "incorrect" reference.

If you really find someone saying WOW based on a 4-5 hour visit - visit that place - there might be something to learn
Click to expand...
I would tend to disagree. If you're visiting a brand in their facilities, you only got a X amount of time to get an impression. By bring the equipment to your own house to review them, you already know the flaws and limitations build in your own listening place. Maybe you think your own room is a bit narrow, or there is not enough space between the speakers to the wall etc. If you have a great system you own, you'll fairly quick know if the tested products is a good addition, or if it's not. And you can also make comparisons with other brands products. By basing a review on a X hour tour, It's hard to differentiating between good or bad / Right or wrong. Let's say that you're reviewing a worldclass amp, but with shitty cables and and decent speakers. Than you might tend to say "I didn't like that amp at all". Maybe it wasn't the amplifier, but the power conditioner or one single power cord making the difference between fairly good to really bad. Atleast if you audition them at your own place, you got a feeling about every other component that the reviewed device is connected to.

Hope this makes any sense :)
 
You and I are discussing different points. I am talking about a review where you visit the factory, audiophiles and dealers who own that brand in different set ups. Not visiting the factory alone. And make comparisons - that is key. But your own limited set up and gear available for compare will hamper it while if you travel you will have more opportunities to do so

EmiLiuZ said:
I would tend to disagree. If you're visiting a brand in their facilities, you only got a X amount of time to get an impression. By bring the equipment to your own house to review them, you already know the flaws and limitations build in your own listening place. Maybe you think your own room is a bit narrow, or there is not enough space between the speakers to the wall etc. If you have a great system you own, you'll fairly quick know if the tested products is a good addition, or if it's not. And you can also make comparisons with other brands products. By basing a review on a X hour tour, It's hard to differentiating between good or bay / Right or wrong. Let's say that you're reviewing a worldclass amp, but with shitty cables and and decent speakers. Than you might tend to say "I didn't like that amp at all". Maybe it wasn't the amplifier, but the power conditioner or one single power cord making the difference between fairly good to really bad. Atleast if you audition them at your own place, you got a feeling about every other component that the reviewed device is connected to.

Hope this makes any sense :)
Click to expand...
 
bonzo said:
You and I are discussing different points. I am talking about a review where you visit the factory, audiophiles and dealers who own that brand in different set ups. Not visiting the factory alone. And make comparisons - that is key. But your own limited set up and gear available for compare will hamper it while if you travel you will have more opportunities to do so
Click to expand...
The issue is that I've never read a review, where the reviewer does these things. It's either a "Visiting the Gryphons" or a "Reviewing Diablo 300" sort of thing where they either do as discussed in this topic, go for a sort of first impression thing at a facility and ends up making a review or conclusion. Or they actually brings the equipment with them at their own place. Reviewers should be able to create their own environments, and compare thing that they are familiar with. If the reviewer is not familiar with the products he is reviewing, and has no control. Then surely the review will get out of control, good or bad.
 
There is so many flaws and sources of errors, If you don't review them at your own place. You have no control over the cable-ling, amplification or speakers.

Let's make a scenario.

A reviewer goes to a brand that only makes amplification. He makes a direct review based on his visits and what his first impressions are after listening to them at showroom. He then asks his audiophile friend who has the same amp, but a different cable/speaker setup. He then writes to a dealer to get his impressions. The dealer might have played on that exact amp, but in 25 different setups.

Already here you're going to have 27 different opinions on how the amplifier is performing.

If you bring them home with you, you're going to have a controlled personal opinion about the product. I would take that any day. :)
 
IMO,

It's not necessary to review any product for 3 months , whats important is to have more than just one individual opinion on a review, a true review would have 2 maybe 3 reviewers reviewing said product , a multiple review will give everyone a much better idea of a product and also give the manufacturer the opportunity to have his product fairly and properly reviewed and since audiophiles rarely ever agree , concensus on anything would carry weight, disagreement opportunity to investigate and best of all , no boring opinionated only review ...

One objective measuring review and two Subjective opinionated reviews works for me , 3 months sounds like opportunity not a review and the only thing Burning in over those 3 months is their listening chair , no one sends out green equipment for a review ...



Regards
 
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