Advices on Upgrading my Music Server/Streamer?

Mystere said:
Excellent point about MQA. Thanks! As for the T2, the price is outside of my comfort zone these days. I read only good things about Lumin though. You might be right. This Friday morning, I will be at a local dealer to compare JRiver/PC vs Lumin U1 Mini. Depending on what I hear, I might let myself be tempted and see if there is a way to compare the T2 with my Hegel DAC.
Click to expand...

I just suddenly remember this - A warning for Lumin USB output to Hegel H360. The Hegel H360 USB DAC is an old generation and does not support Linux DSD. Therefore, DSD will not work from Lumin USB output to Hegel H360.

This is a Hegel limitation, not a Lumin limitation. You'll run into this DSD incompatibility with any Linux based streamer, including Roon ROCK.

Considering this, I cannot emphasize enough the importance of using analog output for connection to Hegel H360.

If the T2 is outside your budget, please check out the D2. (Unlike T2) D2 does not have USB audio output, however. D2 only has analog outputs and BNC output.
 
No worries, get what you prefer. Lumin is a solid product.

A purpose built PC running Roon and HQPlayer can take on "music servers" and will do a wonderful job. The information I reported came straight from Lumin. They don't list the level of computer parts being used because in almost every case these "music servers" are using inferior lower performance CPUs, hard drives, RAM, etc., etc. And please don't tell me that the power in the computer behind the "server" makes no difference because as a compute engineer I assure you it does.

Using the analog outputs to the Hegel is basically using the DAC in the Lumin instead of the one in the Hegel. I don't disagree with this but stand by my statement that it is a personal preference on using a ESS chip versus an AKM chip. I have had many DACs with ESS chips and thought they did a fine job, but definitely prefer custom built DAC convertors versus off the shelf chips (ala what all the best DACs use; MSB, Lampi, dCS, PS Audio, T+A, etc.). And the Lumin is not using ESS's top chip that has been out for a number of years now. There is a big difference between the 9028 and the 9038 chips.

My view comes from using many different DAC products and really comparing them, and also comparing my customize server versus built servers. I do not represent a particular company, just lending my views based on using different products to help another forum member.
 
Cost no object Roon Ready network bridge - Audio Products - Roon Labs Community

6moons audioreviews: Lumin D1

Both the ES9028PRO and ES9038PRO are announced at the same time. They are both latest technology.
ESS Technology :: ESS Technology Introduces the SABRE PRO Series of DACs Setting a New Performance Bar with Unprecedented 140 dB Dynamic Range

I respect your (or anyone's) preferences for DAC chips or DAC not using these chips.

I'm not saying one brand of DAC chip is better than another brand. DAC chip alone does not determine the SQ. My point is, any decent external DAC (not necessarily a Lumin) with whatever DAC chip or technology is going to be better than the internal DAC of an amp, no matter what DAC chip it uses. In case of AV receivers, I am confident that is always true. In case of integrated amp, I believe that is usually true as well. In case of the specific amp mentioned by the OP, I have user confirmations.
 
Lumin made their name on the Wolfson DAC chip. This love fest with Sabre chips for future Lumin’s should be re-examined or at least evaluated carefully against the rest of the chips out there and even a ladder DAC or what Esoteric is doing lately with their own Master Sound Discrete DAC chip. I would like to see more AKM or other non-saber DAC chips investigated and a digital input added to future Lumin’s for those that still want to use a transport.

A CD ripper/storage solution would be nice too.
 
Mike said:
Lumin made their name on the Wolfson DAC chip. This love fest with Sabre chips for future Lumin’s should be re-examined or at least evaluated carefully against the rest of the chips out there and even a ladder DAC or what Esoteric is doing lately with their own Master Sound Discrete DAC chip. I would like to see more AKM or other non-saber DAC chips investigated and a digital input added to future Lumin’s for those that still want to use a transport.

A CD ripper/storage solution would be nice too.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%
 
I am well aware that the 9028 and 9038 chips (along with the 9026) came out at the same time. I have had DACs using both of these. And I am also very aware that the chip in and of itself does not make or break a DAC. I have compared DACs from the same company using the 9028 and 9038 chips and the 9038 is far superior, however I agree with Mike in that Lumin would be wise to explore other DAC options. Many company chose to use the 9026 or 9028 because they were pin compatible with ESS previous generation chips, while the 9038 is not and would require more work redesigning.

Higher end digital companies (you know the names) use custom built DAC decoders because in every case they are superior to the off the shelf chips no matter which one is used. Certain DACs tend to lean towards certain duties better than others in my view. T+A for example uses total separate signal paths depending on if a PCM or a DSD file is being decoded. I would also add that I believe T+A is a DSD specialist which definitely is a reason that I gravitated towards their products.

The bottom line is that Lumin is a good product but I believe it is important that Shark members receive good accurate info so that they can decide for themselves on which merits in a particular product is right for them. I know how difficult this can be especially when discovering (or rediscovering which is what my situation was) this whole new world of audio enthusiast equipment. I know first hand how difficult it is especially when many manufactures put out misleading or at best half truths about their products.
 
i've found that server changes make a huge impact on the sound. i moved up from an mbpro to a metrum ambre to a rockna wavedream net. each change revealed more and in in the case of the rockna NET, it was not even remotely subtle. it's cliche, but yes, the non-audio gf noticed and asked why the sound was better. given my experience, i feel like - especially for streaming - the dac+server budget should be split evenly. there are no hard rules in audio, so as always, experiment if you can and determine if that split makes sense for you. you're on the right path though - lumin makes great stuff though i haven't had a chance to hear their uber offerings.

i've decided to take my experiment to an extreme...the taiko extreme :). it's on its way and after i get to spend some time with it, i will happily post my impressions here
 
+4!

As a repeat customer of Lumin and, as I look to upgrade from my X1 in a few years, I would want the following features:

- Completely balanced design
- Better chip set (Quad Balanced) - agree with above comments
- Digital inputs (AES, Coax, USB, maybe fiber for a potential transport)
- Next gen clock
- Screen to display album art
- Dual power supplies

Also, Lumin should add a CD/SACD and ripper transport
- digital outputs
- ability to rip and transfer files to L1 or NAS

All of this in the traditionally beautiful design and finish of the Lumin products. And, with the ease of use and excellent tech support from Peter and team.
 
The Aurender N10 was a favorite for years (along with their W20). I love the new Innuos servers too, but the best I've ever heard is the one I bought, The Memory Player by Laufer Teknik, Laufer Teknik I have a prototype of his newest. He also installed a DAC in mine and will install a special analog volume control so I can run direct to amp and not worry about impedance issues or lose dynamics as you do when you run direct.
 
Get rid of JRiver. It sounds mifi at best. Give Audirvana a try. It has a simple user interface and a library like JR. They have a 30 day free trial and then it is $75. It sounds way better than JR. HQplayer with Roon would be the way to go if you want to spend the money. Or just go with HQplayer for $150 but your computer needs to be up to snuff with a decent processor and at least 8gb of ram.

I use a custom computer that I built for my music server and use Bug Head Infinity Blade as my player which is a pain to use but sonically it is fabulous, better than HQplayer. When I don't want to be bothered I use Audirvana. I use JRiver to rip music. I have 14tb of storage on my music computer with about 9tb full of music.
 
Mechnutt said:
I get annoyed with Windows update as well. This may help with turning updates off and setting a particular day for the updates.
Click to expand...

Yes. Good point. One part of me wants to always upgrade as soon as possible and another part of me says nothing will break down if I postpone them and I would get more stability.
 
I just obtained a Sonore UltraRendu and am really pleased with the sound. I bought it because of the positive reviews, got this streamer for "just" 900 euro and hooked it on my USB DAC.

In my opinion those other streamers have alot of functions that are not needed. This Sonore does only one thing, streaming and sending to just a single USB output. Thats it. No other things to pay for, no DAC, no display, no harddiscs, a power supply need to be bought yourself, what it does have, only a streamer, a low jitter Femto oscillator and 6 low noice regulators.

Hooked it on my Roon Server.

Now the question how it sounds. In comparison to other streamers I don't know. Reviews are great, and with the absence of all unneeded luxury I have trust that it can reach the high standards of those far more expensive streamers, but sadly I am not able to compare.
 
As I stated I have been an IT professional for quite some time. When I first started researching digital I also felt it is just 1's and 0's. How could there be much difference. Was I surprised! Everything makes a difference right down to the USB cable (two USB cables in my case).

As was shown earlier, you can choose how to handle everything with Windows, right down to when/if you run updates. Having frequent updates is a good thing, not bad. There is a lot of bad people out there.

I most worry about open source OS's because there is almost no protection, and spreading bad stuff is very easy. The more popular an OS gets the more it becomes a target. Nothing that connects to the Internet is immune.
 
I agree about exposure to threats due to a lack of upgrades. It all depends on the probabilities of a threat materializing and how much damage it can cause. Upgrading my laptops is not a big deal. I just don't want to worry about the microPC sitting behind my TV. I want it to be up and running 24/7 so I can play music any time I want to, just like when I was using a CD player. I want reliability and stability.

It turns out I took my Hegel H360 and my microPC/JRiver set up to a local Lumin dealer. We were about to run the U1 Mini and JRiver in parallel, playing the same songs at the same time. It was easy to switch back and forth between the two as often as I wanted. Well... the Lumin made the sound better. It was not a huge difference, but it was better. So, I can only conclude that the source of the digital data impacts the performance of the DAC. It is not just 1s and 0s. I heard it.

Given the promise of a more stable platform, and the possibility of using a music streaming service in the future, I decided to order a U1 Mini. I might keep my JRiver set up for videos and photos (I ripped a bunch of DVDs to files). I might also use JRiver to clean up the metadata in my flac files. I keep noticing problems with cover art, artists, etc... once in a while and JRiver is really good at this (To be honest, it's the only one I know... :-) ).
 
Cool, and glad you found a product that fits your needs! That is excellent. I have no doubt at all that the Lumin totally out performed your microPC (not sure what kind of microPC you have). A PC needs to have enough power and to get the best performance requires being somewhat customized; certainly depending on software being ran on the machine. At its best a customized PC can perform with or in my view much better. For someone wanting more plug and play or not interested in working with a computer to get its best a machine such as the Lumin is an excellent choice!

I have my custom PC in my audio rack. I have had a smaller case but I like having a bit more air inside (and easier to work on if I ever want to) so I now use a mid size case. I do not worry about doing updates and certainly is not an issue being in my rack. I never hook up a monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc. I simply use remote desktop from my tablet computer (which is also my Roon controller) to do whatever maintenance and file copies that I want to do. Easy as pie :)...

I also own JRiver and use it for doing occasional (now very occasional) CD rips. Over all the interface was not bad, but after I got used to Roon I could never again use it in my audio system. Comparing JRiver to Roon would be like comparing a Ford Pinto to a Rolls Royce :P.
 
Randy Myers said:
I also own JRiver and use it for doing occasional (now very occasional) CD rips. Over all the interface was not bad, but after I got used to Roon I could never again use it in my audio system. Comparing JRiver to Roon would be like comparing a Ford Pinto to a Rolls Royce :P.
Click to expand...

Maybe, one day, I will try Roon. It is expensive and I am already indulging with Lumin. I could have bought the $400 JRiver Id Linux-based microPC and might have been happy with it. With Lumin, I feel like I will be driving a BMW.

For ripping CDs, I don't use JRiver. I use dBpoweramp. It is very good. You can also buy their PerfectTUNES software to scan your collection and find ripping errors. Just a thought. Thanks!
 
That really is the down side of both Roon and HQPlayer. They are expensive for sure. I was lucky and got a lifetime subscription to Roon prior to their price increase.

I have never tried any other software for ripping since CD ripping is not primary source for me. I only purchase a CD of something that I really want and no other alternative (vinyl / SACD / digital download) are available. JRivers seems to work fine to rip and Roon is spectacular as far as the meta data goes. HQPlayer upconverts all digital to DSD512 for me, but I feel the better in the better out so I look for the highest resolution that I can obtain on a digital file.
 
Hello,

There is some excellent information in this thread.

I have Mac Mini going into my processor.

Looking into upgrading to a server like the Lumin.

Not looking for one with a DAC.

I did not get Roon because I did not want to get stuck using their SW even though I think it still might be the best.

Am using Audirvana and have a subscription the JRiver that I never use.
Think I might use that later for Video.



My question is can I run Audirvana on a Lumin or Innous Etc?

I do think it might be good idea to get dedicated streaming device.

Most appreciated
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top