Active Speakers - good, bad or just different?

Mordante said:
I do not see what DSP, room correction or other equalizations have to do with active vs passive speakers.

The idea of active speakers is attractive but active speakers with a acceptable WaF and acceptable price are rare.
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With digital active speakers like the Avantgarde Zero XD, having DSP can do wonders. Its time and phase corrected within a listening window of 2 - 4 m from the speakers. Consequently, it sounds unusually coherent for a horn speaker. Also, the DRC/parametric EQ helps to compensate for the room quite well.

As for active speakers with decent WAF (subjective anyway):

- Avantgarde Zero XD
- Manger S1 or, for a stand mount, C1
- Adam Audio Classic series (which look fairly conventional)
- Dutch and Dutch
- ATC SCM series
- Kii Audio
 
LAT said:
The other problem with active speakers is boredom of the almost flawless mate.
I've had my ATC SCM150 actives with C6 sub since 2005. I can honestly say I miss the excitement I think I remember in the 20 years prior to this purchase. Buying speakers and mix and matching power sources. With active's it's all been done and done right out of the box.
I've thought of changing and I've looked. At Axpona and CES I auditioned, Grand Utopia's, Wilson's, Magico, KEF Blade's, all which sounded good and somewhat different but not better than what I hear at home.
So I'll sit on my hands till I get the urge again to wander.
Go active and you'll never go back.[emoji1303]
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Ah ... one of (or is it the) pioneers of active speakers. At least you get to mix and match sources and pre-amps.

With the Avantgarde Zero XD, I am "reduced" to playing with digital cables, inputs (AES/EBU vs S/PDIF vs USB sound quite different), power cables and power conditioning (balanced power). Using the DRC/parametric EQ, I can adjust the sound to taste too, if I was so inclined.

Having said that, I was wondering what you found to be better (or preferred) in the SCM150 compared to the speakers that you have mentioned?
 
Mrppv said:
Would love to hear the Kii Three which has gotten some great reviews, from both audiophiles and pros.

As attached as I am to my Vivid speakers, I would not be opposed to considering an active system. Actually, I did hear a rumor a while back that Vivid was pondering an active design, which could be great, but ... never heard more about it.
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Very good speaker system. Best active I have heard and easy to make right in any room you use them in.
 
My dream system is active:

Kef Blade "Exakt" (tri-wiring binding posts & crossover in a separate box, 10% more expensive than normal Blade) > 6x Linn Klimax Solo monoblocks > 2x Linn Klimax Exaktbox Katalyst > Linn Klimax Katalyst DSM Exakt version
Ideal room would be custom made and 63 square meters (9X7X4).

The Linn Klimax Katalyst DSM is superior souding to a similar priced turntable setup (many people ditched their turntables for it), so 6 channel AD/DA conversion of this caliber per speaker, with the phase correct and time aligned crossover and B&K Curve frequency response at listening position makes everything else redundant, it is the holy grail (full range point source, time aligned and phase correct with perfect frequency response). The room would be as close to perfect as possible, with the digital dsp giving the last 5% impossible with conventional treatment

But hey, that's me, I'm a weird guy haha
 
Just to clarify why, I've been at at Lynn demo using Kef Blades with Katalyst passive vs Klimax active

The Katalyst upgrade used only as DAC with passive amps makes the older Klimax with the same passive amps sound like a toy
The active old Klimax vs the new Katalyst with passive amps makes the same difference but in favor of the old Klimax, that's how important the crossover dsp is.
Now imagine the difference with the Katalyst Active :)
 
Mordante said:
I do not see what DSP, room correction or other equalizations have to do with active vs passive speakers.
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They can do without. However the advantage of active speakers is that you can do other stuff that you can do with passive.

Already in the early 1970's Philips had a speaker correction system called Motional Feedback in their top line speakers. This was a concept with a piezo element built in the woofer sending information about the movement back to comparison electronics allowing the amplifier to correct the signal.
MFBprincipe1_041104.jpg
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This gave an improved control over the speakers and allowed low frequency response to 20Hz.

Nowadays companies like Backes & Müller (B&M), Avantgarde Acoustics Grimm Audio and Kii use technologies to compensate negative effects i a different, modern way. Especially Kii has a (in my opinion) revolutionary design where the use DSP in combination with speakers around the housing to create anti-sound compensation for negative effects like side and back-wall. Therefore creating an astonishing clear, deep and loud, reverb free bass especially for the compact box.
Kii_signal_path.jpg


So DSP and other electronics necessary? No, however they can make more out of an active speaker than just the sum of matched amps and chassis in the same box.
 
nicoludio said:
With digital active speakers like the Avantgarde Zero XD, having DSP can do wonders. Its time and phase corrected within a listening window of 2 - 4 m from the speakers. Consequently, it sounds unusually coherent for a horn speaker. Also, the DRC/parametric EQ helps to compensate for the room quite well.

As for active speakers with decent WAF (subjective anyway):

- Avantgarde Zero XD
- Manger S1 or, for a stand mount, C1
- Adam Audio Classic series (which look fairly conventional)
- Dutch and Dutch
- ATC SCM series
- Kii Audio
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What about KEF LS50 Wireless?
 
Hi Everyone. I am new to this forum, but not new to the hobby. I agree with allforhifi completely. I first fell in love with active speakers with Emerald Physics when Clayton Shaw owned the company. I had DSP, crossovers, and tri-amplification. Talk about dynamics! But, the system had too many variables and was not WAF friendly. I moved to ATC 50SCM speakers. I wish I never sold them. Plug a great DAC with volume control ahead of them and sit back and listen to great music. But, as LAT says, you get bored. There is not much to "play" with and we audiophiles tend to like to experiment with our systems. My next speakers (I have a deposit placed) will have external crossovers and will be active and I will be able to change amps.
 
targa02 said:
But, as LAT says, you get bored. There is not much to "play" with and we audiophiles tend to like to experiment with our systems. My next speakers (I have a deposit placed) will have external crossovers and will be active and I will be able to change amps.
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Too true about the boredom bit. There is only so much that you can experiment with.

As for your next speakers, Spatial X-1s?
 
nicoludio said:
Too true about the boredom bit. There is only so much that you can experiment with.

As for your next speakers, Spatial X-1s?
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Yes, I heard the Spatial X1s at the LA Audio show a couple of months ago driven by Vinnie Rossi's LIO. Pretty spectacular. I purchased both products.
 
Congratulations! I suppose you would be getting the DAC 2.0 module too?

The concept of a horn loaded point source driver coupled with what is, effectively, a sub-woofer is quite appealing.

How did you find the sound of the X1 compared to other speakers that you were considering?
 
Yes, I did pre-order the DAC 2.0 module. I am still noodling on how best to connect my Baetis Reference III to the LIO DAC, as the Baetis preferred output is AES.

"How did you find the sound of the X1 compared to other speakers that you were considering?"

I love point source, active and open baffle. So, the X1s check all the boxes for me. Getting to hear them at the LA show was a real plus. No boxy sound, deep tuneful bass (not boomy) and a soundstage like nothing I have heard before. And they are so relaxing to listen to. This could be due to being off the grid with Vinnie Rossi's ultracapacitor DAC/Intergrated amp.
 
asiufy said:
The Kii is one fantastic package, possibly the best active system that I know of, and while it can be better than many systems with separates, we have systems in our store that will beat it easily, albeit at multiple times the Kii's price.

But again, for what it's supposed to do, and for what it costs, it's hard to beat the Kiis.
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Does the Kii sound remind you of any of the more established HiFi speakers?
 
patagent said:
Does the Kii sound remind you of any of the more established HiFi speakers?
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Hi!

Interesting question, never thought much about it! We have the Kiis set up in an open space in the front of the store, and we can easily switch to two other systems, and while I've always been impressed with the Kii, I never found it particularly similar to any of the other speakers we have/had here.

I see it a sort of hybrid. It images like the best bookshelves, does tight bass like the best sealed cabinet speakers, and has a very good, natural presentation, like the best traditional wood-enclosure designs.

But at the end of the day, any of the "big boy" systems here in the store will better it here and there. Of course, price (and complexity/number of boxes and cables) also go up considerably. At the new price points, the Kii stuff is killer value!
 
asiufy said:
Hi!

Interesting question, never thought much about it! We have the Kiis set up in an open space in the front of the store, and we can easily switch to two other systems, and while I've always been impressed with the Kii, I never found it particularly similar to any of the other speakers we have/had here.

I see it a sort of hybrid. It images like the best bookshelves, does tight bass like the best sealed cabinet speakers, and has a very good, natural presentation, like the best traditional wood-enclosure designs.

But at the end of the day, any of the "big boy" systems here in the store will better it here and there. Of course, price (and complexity/number of boxes and cables) also go up considerably. At the new price points, the Kii stuff is killer value!
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Thanks for the response. Have you gotten a chance to try an analog source with the Kii? Since the analog input converts analog signals to digital, I've been wondering if vinyl should even be an option on the Kii.
 
patagent said:
Thanks for the response. Have you gotten a chance to try an analog source with the Kii? Since the analog input converts analog signals to digital, I've been wondering if vinyl should even be an option on the Kii.
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I did run a (tube) preamp through the analog inputs, so I could hook up a turntable, and I can say that the Kiis did show the nature and character of that preamp (immersive soundstage) and the punchiness of the phono stage (DAgostino). So the A/D seemed fairly good!
 
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