A topic that was deleted to make disappear on another forum....

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike - we are talking about you as well.

They openly called you out BY NAME on the show last night.

You are THE MOST well known shill in the industry. Remember the inside info you had to sell your Dartzeel before their collapse went public so you tried to dump your Dartzeel gear, and your pissy post declaring publicly for people to stop asking you why you were selling them (pre-Dartzeel sinking) that you wouldn't tell people your reason why?

Your industry reputation precedes you.

Rather then pretending to be some innocent consumer, simply be honest your the guy who was and embrace your shill-for-hire reputation. You've worked hard to get to that point, simply own it.

You only look foolish coming here and pretending you are an innocent victim. Remember companies talk.....

i wish we could sit down and listen to some music together and find common ground. i bet we would get along. i respect your vintage and tube gear focus. love that work you do. but this other stuff.....

you were the guy on WBF who posted about shills on the forum and you said you had receipts. i challenged you to provide such receipts and describe this proof. you then you attacked me with this same darTZeel stuff which means nothing. then you continued to go on about it and got banned from WBF. too bad since you had something to contribute if you could avoid the conflict.

you are right about one thing, it's so easy to write things and attack people on the forums. and it's your right to be a skeptic. i have no problem with that part. i should have just let you go on about it and not bothered with you.

have a nice day.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

i wish we could sit down and listen to some music together and find common ground. i bet we would get along. i respect your vintage and tube gear focus. love that work you do. but this other stuff.....

you were the guy on WBF who posted about shills on the forum and you said you had receipts. i challenged you to provide such receipts and describe this proof. you then you attacked me with this same darTZeel stuff which means nothing. then you continued to go on about it and got banned from WBF. too bad since you had something to contribute if you could avoid the conflict.

you are right about one thing, it's so easy to write things and attack people on the forums. and it's your right to be a skeptic. i have no problem with that part. i should have just let you go on about it and not bothered with you.

have a nice day.

Mike - everyone else recognizes you as a shill but yourself.

My issue has always been a very simple one: you have every right to get paid in some sort of fashion for your time and effort - whether it be through discounts or cash.

The issue is to simply be TRANSPARENT about it.

you having inside info after your special deal on the Dartzeel with heads up info to sell them to an unsuspecting buyer prior to them going down is not cool.

Jay gets paid to cover rooms at shows. If you don't pay him he won't cover them. But he admits that. That's cool.

Same like PTA and most other industry outlets - no pay = no play ( though many pretend that's not the case but every company they deal with says differently).

Andrew Robinson is one big deaf walking commercial for what he covers.

Simply be transparent about your special deals (remember the issue that blew up with you and the turntable/cartridge?) and why you make the posts the way you do. People will respect you for it and take them for what they are: paid advertisements and not simply an innocent hobbyist making posts. Your recent posts on WBF on your latest promotion of gear is telling.

Respectfully if you truly believe you are not a shill, you need to find a way to change how those in the industry talk about you as otherwise.

Even your attempts at deflection on the video livestream last night backfired spectacularly.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike - everyone else recognizes you as a shill but yourself.

My issue has always been a very simple one: you have every right to get paid in some sort of fashion for your time and effort - whether it be through discounts or cash.

The issue is to simply be TRANSPARENT about it.

you having inside info after your special deal on the Dartzeel with heads up info to sell them to an unsuspecting buyer prior to them going down is not cool.

Jay gets paid to cover rooms at shows. If you don't pay him he won't cover them. But he admits that. That's cool.

Same like PTA and most other industry outlets - no pay = no play ( though many pretend that's not the case but every company they deal with says differently).

Andrew Robinson is one big deaf walking commercial for what he covers.

Simply be transparent about your special deals (remember the issue that blew up with you and the turntable/cartridge?) and why you make the posts the way you do. People will respect you for it and take them for what they are: paid advertisements and not simply an innocent hobbyist making posts. Your recent posts on WBF on your latest promotion of gear is telling.

Respectfully if you truly believe you are not a shill, you need to find a way to change how those in the industry talk about you as otherwise.

Even your attempts at deflection on the video last night with Elliot backfired.

if you want to talk about it, call me. happy to answer your questions. actually have a 2 way conversation. if not ok.

i will PM you my phone number.

 

[Mike]

Anybody who gets $140k amps to “try” and makes 297 posts about them is a shill. Anyone who buys a $300k DAC and makes 350 posts on multiple forums including audiogon (nobody there gives a shit) is either the world’s biggest braggart or a shill. The list goes on and on. They knew what they were doing sending you the amps and not anyone else. The problem you don’t see, is that unsuspecting people will buy thinking you’re innocent in all this (and that’s what the manufacturer and distributor are hoping I’m sure).

Just own it. Your shilling is the worst kept secret in audio. I’ve literally heard your name a dozen times “hey, if we send this amp to Mike L, you think he would talk it up for us?”

Most people quietly evaluate a piece, buy it and make a few posts here and there. Nobody who isn’t a shill waxes poetically on and on and on for 9000 posts about a piece unless there is something hinky going on. Come on. We aren’t stupid. Own it and move on.

 

[nc42acc]

Hey Mike is the market at the point that manufacturers or importers actively looking for someone to shill to increase sales? I see this being rampant on YouTube, shilling that is. Also the affiliate marketing is off the charts now.

 

[Mike]

Hey Mike is the market at the point that manufacturers or importers actively looking for someone to shill to increase sales? I see this being rampant on YouTube, shilling that is. Also the affiliate marketing is off the charts now.

Well, I think that since the market has largely lost confidence in print reviews, they are looking for any angle. I have no issues with paid promotion - EXAMPLE: a YouTuber will do an overview of a new DAC for $500 let’s say. Influencers. It’s done in every industry. You want to get your new lipstick brand out there? Give it to an influencer. That’s fine. Everyone knows it’s paid promotion.

The problem here is that it’s done under the table, quid pro quo. Either implicitly or more subtly…it’s done.

People are looking for any source to help them make a buying decision. They look at reviews with a side eye. They look at marketing from shows with skepticism. But the last bastion of honest source was Joe consumers like you. If “Bill” likes it on line and “Sam” too, maybe I should consider it. Little do Bill and Sam know the behind the scenes hinky business going on. The biases are hidden. That’s the issue.

Influencers are fine, but people need to know they are influencers so they can take what they say with a grain of salt. More background and more openness so people spending their hard earned money get the whole truth.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Anybody who gets $140k amps to “try” and makes 297 posts about them is a shill. Anyone who buys a $300k DAC and makes 350 posts on multiple forums including audiogon (nobody there gives a shit) is either the world’s biggest braggart or a shill. The list goes on and on. They knew what they were doing sending you the amps and not anyone else. The problem you don’t see, is that unsuspecting people will buy thinking you’re innocent in all this (and that’s what the manufacturer and distributor are hoping I’m sure).

Just own it. Your shilling is the worst kept secret in audio. I’ve literally heard your name a dozen times “hey, if we send this amp to Mike L, you think he would talk it up for us?”

Most people quietly evaluate a piece, buy it and make a few posts here and there. Nobody who isn’t a shill waxes poetically on and on and on for 9000 posts about a piece unless there is something hinky going on. Come on. We aren’t stupid. Own it and move on.

so my crime is enthusiasm. ok. guilty. my room and system and this hobby mean a lot to me. people visit me all the time. they travel from around the world. i enjoy it. the local audio club has meetings at my home often.

Elliot made a profit on the Wadax, a nice one. how am i a shill about it?

for years i've documented my activity. heck, you even made me a system page on this forum prior to me joining AudioShark to attract more eyeballs. you used me. you must have been ok about it then.

i bought an MSB Select II used and had a long thread about it. a shill? buying used gear? how does that work?

bought a set of Lamm ML3's used and had a long thread about that too.

back on AudioAsylum 20+years ago i documented my room build process. people are always contacting me for help with new rooms.

then i walked into a buzz saw of conflict on the Stellavox just doing my own thing. i already own $220k amps. it's a question whether the Stellavox can surpass them. i'm on the fence about it. my darts would be a trade-in as part of buying the new amps if i do it.

so resentment of my posting style justifies calling me a shill. we all are proud of our hobby activity to some degree. not apologizing for that. long threads don't happen with one person posting. if the forum community is not interested then they don't contribute and the thread dies. so if there are long threads then it has value.

defending myself is probably a mistake. oh well.

 

[Mike]

Hmm…Mike…I never made you a system page. I don’t even know (or care) about your system. I’ve never made a system page for anyone. What I did do was made a post about a mention in a magazine article that mentioned your system.

You bought the MSB overseas? True? You went around the distributor and dealer network here. True? You cut out the distributor here for DAVA or Esturo or both and that caused a big blow up online. I forget the whole hubbub over those too.

Here’s a thought: your writing is excellent. It is Mike. Why not take it on as a role for paid promotion of products by vendors? You could be the first legit influencer in high end audio. You hand pick what you’ll “review” or discuss. Only things you want. Just formalize it and charge a fee. As long as everyone knows, it won’t diminish your influence, quite the contrary.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hmm…Mike…I never made you a system page. I don’t even know (or care) about your system. I’ve never made a system page for anyone. What I did do was made a post about a mention in a magazine article that mentioned your system.

You bought the MSB overseas? True?

no. i bought them from Bob Visatainer, Rhapsody. when he sold them to me he became a dealer so i got the 10-year warranty. he got them as trades from a European customer.

You went around the distributor and dealer network here. True? You cut out the distributor here for DAVA

DaVa is only sold direct. i paid for list price.

or Esturo

bought 4 of them from the UK dealer, a friend. they were special editions he had commissioned. paid plenty. there was fallout about it.

the USA Etsuro distributor priced them out of the world high. no one bought any.

or both and that caused a big blow up online. I forget the whole hubbub over those too.

Here’s a thought: your writing is excellent. It is Mike. Why not take it on as a role for paid promotion of products by vendors? You could be the first legit influencer in high end audio. You hand pick what you’ll “review” or discuss. Only things you want. Just formalize it and charge a fee. As long as everyone knows, it won’t diminish your influence, quite the contrary.

i stay in my lane. just do what i do. not part of the commerce and don't want to learn how to be a reviewer. tried it once. too much work. not fun.

i don't get paid by anyone for anything i do. i'm a customer. sometimes i get good customer prices like other good customers.

 

[Mike]

no. i bought them from Bob Visatainer, Rhapsody. when he sold them to me he became a dealer so i got the 10-year warranty. he got them as trades from a European customer.


DaVa is only sold direct. i paid for list price.

bought 4 of them from the UK dealer, a friend. they were special editions. paid plenty.

the USA Etsuro distributor priced them out of the world high. no one bought any.


i stay in my lane. just do what i do. not part of the commerce and don't want to learn how to be a reviewer. tried it one. too much work. not fun.

I remember the whole European thing caused quite an uproar - both the DAC and the Esturo.

I’ll just finish with this: the optics on all of this doesn’t look good.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I remember the whole European thing caused quite an uproar - both the DAC and the Esturo.

i'm the customer. that is dealer and distributor and manufacturer issues. not my issue.

ask Vince how many MSB Select II's they sold because i wrote a thread about it. the dealers did well. there was never a formal review of it.

I’ll just finish with this: the optics on all of this doesn’t look good.

people will think what they think. which is why if someone has an issue with me i'd like to talk to them about it. trying to make that case in an on line forum is impossible. certainly as far as Stellavox, having the opportunity to demo in home offered to me has something to do with my on line prominence. lots of people can get that hooked up too if they pursue it. in my case he called me. which i was open about in my posting. nothing to hide.