ohbythebay
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I saw this for sale on another site....Gorgeous...I would replace the EL34's with 6L6GC's but just a sweet piece...
A beutiful Jolida tube integrated
- Thread starter ohbythebay
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I saw this for sale on another site....Gorgeous...I would replace the EL34's with 6L6GC's but just a sweet piece...
beautiful...
Dave
ohbythebay
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I like it for a few reasons...First, the Jolida name so it is definitely dedicated to quality. And for me the tube setup. 2 12AU7's, 2 12AX7's and the EL34 's (which I would change to 6L6GC's..they just plug in no mods needed)
To me that combo is one of the best setups (what I use now) ..In this case, no power amp is needed..pretty cool
To me that combo is one of the best setups (what I use now) ..In this case, no power amp is needed..pretty cool
dlb2
New member
Rob, why would you swap out the EL34's for 6L6's?
ohbythebay
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To me (and to many) the 6L6GC is more musical, wider range. Here is a good write-up on the difference ..I have tried BOTH (EL34's came with my Velleman) and the 6L6GC switch was spot on...
Sonically speaking, 6L6s are well-known for being versatile and balanced across their entire range of low, mid and high frequencies. They are often loosely referred to as being ‘fat and round’ with a musically blooming bass response but they are also well regarded for being brilliant, detailed, sparkling and ‘open’ in high-end and presence frequency ranges. With the 6L6 being so well balanced yet bass-full and high-end brilliant, you might be thinking to yourself that the 6L6 has everything anyone could ever want from a tube… and Mesa’s history tends to agree. The 6L6 is easily the most versatile tube for any styles from pristine clean for jazz to mind-numbing metal and anything in between. The same headroom that delivers full range clean tones simultaneously offers the same clarity to support huge but accurate low-end with modern high gain applications. Versatility being one of the cornerstones of Mesa products, the vast majority of Mesa amps have either been designed specifically with 6L6s only, or, those amps with the Switchable Bias are originally shipped with 6L6s from the factory. Beyond its expansive sonic signature, 6L6 tubes are consistent, reliable and a mainstay for tube guitar amplifiers since the inception of guitar amplification.
A tray of EL-34 Power tubes waiting to be packed While Mesa admittedly has a bias toward the 6L6 as the go-to, big bottle tube, there are characteristics of EL-34s that are undeniably rooted in rock ‘n’ roll that make the skinnier bottle ‘34 well worthy of it’s position in rock history. In bass frequencies, EL-34s tend to offer less bass in low frequency ranges (in the sub-low regions) compared to 6L6s, BUT – the higher bass this tube DOES generate is more focused, tight and extremely punchy. The frequency of this punch is similar to the kick drum punch range – closer to the beaters’ attack frequency than the sub-air that comes out of a kick drum’s front head. Another key signature of EL-34 character is its considerable peak in upper midrange and low treble regions in addition to an overall brighter disposition. It’s this upper-mid/low-treble peak that is the true signature of the EL-34 gain and it’s also the range where harmonic layering in distortion sounds begins to stack up in earnest. It’s also this frequency range that has the potential to produce what many refer to as “icepick” frequencies – unpleasant brightness that stings your ears. Careful settings of middle, treble and presence controls is crucial to avoid exposing you, your bandmates and your audience to these “icepick” settings. When tastefully set, there is an unmistakable and musical edge, cut and bite from EL-34s which lends itself well to medium preamp gain settings, heavy handed attack, and power tubes pushed into overdrive as amp Masters get cranked. This is where the EL-34 shines!
But enough about what you hear, let’s talk about feel.
Threshold of distortion, clip and overdrive.
Street sign of a car going off a cliff
One of the important and likely more noticeable differences players will experience when properly comparing 6L6s and EL-34s is threshold of clip and distortion. This living, breathing aspect of tube tone might not be as obvious to players new to tube amplification and/or those who haven’t been able play their amp very loud or at gig levels yet. So… let’s start by defining some of the concepts in the title above.
“Threshold of distortion” – as it relates power amp sections – is the point where the Output and/or Master settings of the amp, with settings dialed for clean sounds in the preamp, is being turned up loud enough to begin saturating the power section and power tubes, generating distortion. Clip is a term that describes the subtle initial onset of this distortion and the transition from clean sound to distorted sound. Overdrive is a term generally used to describe distortion sounds beyond this soft clip – but before full gain saturation and layering we all call distortion. Overdrive is often the term used to describe distortion that is smoother and warmer and better for single-note solo tones or purring rhythm sounds. Hopefully these descriptions shed light on some of the more obscure details behind great distortion tones. Now, let’s compare our two tube competitors in the arena of feel.
Stiletto chassis in burn-in - waiting overnight for playtest in the morning. Technically speaking, EL-34s are served higher voltages and utilize more current than their 6L6 counterparts. Non-technically, they run hotter! This hotter/higher current operation is one of the reasons why EL-34 tubes (and the amps that use them) offer such a wide range of overdrive and crunch sounds from their power sections. The allure of EL-34s, particularly for gain sounds, stems from the tube’s earlier threshold to clip and distort when pushed. As you increase the amp’s overall volume, the potential and usable range for EL-34 power tubes to break up musically increases in a big way. This is the land where great, gut-punch gain sounds are born (think early AC/DC or vintage Van Halen). These fabled early rock distortion sounds were generated by power sections of amps being cranked up, since all-tube cascading preamp gain as we know it today was JUST being born by Mesa’s designer and high-gain preamp pioneer and innovator, Randall Smith.
6L6s offer a noticeably different range of distortion threshold and clip potential once you know ‘where’ to listen. The rich, full range of bass frequencies highlighted in 6L6s can generate a wide sonic footprint when pushed, but too much power section clip with a 6L6 can cause bass “bloom” that expands beyond a desirable sound. With smoother mids and low-treble frequencies compared to the EL-34, 6L6s also produce less obvious saturation when pushed. Power tube distortion and overdrive with 6L6s tends to be warmer, smoother and sweeter overall and is more commonly used in traditional blues and roots styles or wherever low to medium gain clip or pushed clean sounds are what the music calls for. For those looking to exploit the 6L6 clip threshold, single notes and solos can take on almost unlimited personalities. Solo tones from the likes of Andy Timmons, Robben Ford, or classic Steely Dan solos are great examples of the wide array of clipped and pushed clean sounds available from 6L6s while high gain sounds from the likes of John Petrucci and Dream Theater, Lamb Of God and Metallica are just a few excellent examples of 6L6s in action on the heavy rock front.
Sonically speaking, 6L6s are well-known for being versatile and balanced across their entire range of low, mid and high frequencies. They are often loosely referred to as being ‘fat and round’ with a musically blooming bass response but they are also well regarded for being brilliant, detailed, sparkling and ‘open’ in high-end and presence frequency ranges. With the 6L6 being so well balanced yet bass-full and high-end brilliant, you might be thinking to yourself that the 6L6 has everything anyone could ever want from a tube… and Mesa’s history tends to agree. The 6L6 is easily the most versatile tube for any styles from pristine clean for jazz to mind-numbing metal and anything in between. The same headroom that delivers full range clean tones simultaneously offers the same clarity to support huge but accurate low-end with modern high gain applications. Versatility being one of the cornerstones of Mesa products, the vast majority of Mesa amps have either been designed specifically with 6L6s only, or, those amps with the Switchable Bias are originally shipped with 6L6s from the factory. Beyond its expansive sonic signature, 6L6 tubes are consistent, reliable and a mainstay for tube guitar amplifiers since the inception of guitar amplification.
A tray of EL-34 Power tubes waiting to be packed While Mesa admittedly has a bias toward the 6L6 as the go-to, big bottle tube, there are characteristics of EL-34s that are undeniably rooted in rock ‘n’ roll that make the skinnier bottle ‘34 well worthy of it’s position in rock history. In bass frequencies, EL-34s tend to offer less bass in low frequency ranges (in the sub-low regions) compared to 6L6s, BUT – the higher bass this tube DOES generate is more focused, tight and extremely punchy. The frequency of this punch is similar to the kick drum punch range – closer to the beaters’ attack frequency than the sub-air that comes out of a kick drum’s front head. Another key signature of EL-34 character is its considerable peak in upper midrange and low treble regions in addition to an overall brighter disposition. It’s this upper-mid/low-treble peak that is the true signature of the EL-34 gain and it’s also the range where harmonic layering in distortion sounds begins to stack up in earnest. It’s also this frequency range that has the potential to produce what many refer to as “icepick” frequencies – unpleasant brightness that stings your ears. Careful settings of middle, treble and presence controls is crucial to avoid exposing you, your bandmates and your audience to these “icepick” settings. When tastefully set, there is an unmistakable and musical edge, cut and bite from EL-34s which lends itself well to medium preamp gain settings, heavy handed attack, and power tubes pushed into overdrive as amp Masters get cranked. This is where the EL-34 shines!
But enough about what you hear, let’s talk about feel.
Threshold of distortion, clip and overdrive.
Street sign of a car going off a cliff
One of the important and likely more noticeable differences players will experience when properly comparing 6L6s and EL-34s is threshold of clip and distortion. This living, breathing aspect of tube tone might not be as obvious to players new to tube amplification and/or those who haven’t been able play their amp very loud or at gig levels yet. So… let’s start by defining some of the concepts in the title above.
“Threshold of distortion” – as it relates power amp sections – is the point where the Output and/or Master settings of the amp, with settings dialed for clean sounds in the preamp, is being turned up loud enough to begin saturating the power section and power tubes, generating distortion. Clip is a term that describes the subtle initial onset of this distortion and the transition from clean sound to distorted sound. Overdrive is a term generally used to describe distortion sounds beyond this soft clip – but before full gain saturation and layering we all call distortion. Overdrive is often the term used to describe distortion that is smoother and warmer and better for single-note solo tones or purring rhythm sounds. Hopefully these descriptions shed light on some of the more obscure details behind great distortion tones. Now, let’s compare our two tube competitors in the arena of feel.
Stiletto chassis in burn-in - waiting overnight for playtest in the morning. Technically speaking, EL-34s are served higher voltages and utilize more current than their 6L6 counterparts. Non-technically, they run hotter! This hotter/higher current operation is one of the reasons why EL-34 tubes (and the amps that use them) offer such a wide range of overdrive and crunch sounds from their power sections. The allure of EL-34s, particularly for gain sounds, stems from the tube’s earlier threshold to clip and distort when pushed. As you increase the amp’s overall volume, the potential and usable range for EL-34 power tubes to break up musically increases in a big way. This is the land where great, gut-punch gain sounds are born (think early AC/DC or vintage Van Halen). These fabled early rock distortion sounds were generated by power sections of amps being cranked up, since all-tube cascading preamp gain as we know it today was JUST being born by Mesa’s designer and high-gain preamp pioneer and innovator, Randall Smith.
6L6s offer a noticeably different range of distortion threshold and clip potential once you know ‘where’ to listen. The rich, full range of bass frequencies highlighted in 6L6s can generate a wide sonic footprint when pushed, but too much power section clip with a 6L6 can cause bass “bloom” that expands beyond a desirable sound. With smoother mids and low-treble frequencies compared to the EL-34, 6L6s also produce less obvious saturation when pushed. Power tube distortion and overdrive with 6L6s tends to be warmer, smoother and sweeter overall and is more commonly used in traditional blues and roots styles or wherever low to medium gain clip or pushed clean sounds are what the music calls for. For those looking to exploit the 6L6 clip threshold, single notes and solos can take on almost unlimited personalities. Solo tones from the likes of Andy Timmons, Robben Ford, or classic Steely Dan solos are great examples of the wide array of clipped and pushed clean sounds available from 6L6s while high gain sounds from the likes of John Petrucci and Dream Theater, Lamb Of God and Metallica are just a few excellent examples of 6L6s in action on the heavy rock front.
dlb2
New member
+1
That was a nice review and comparison for these two tubes. I have to ask though, are you really going to hear that much of a difference if your not cranking a guitar amp to 11 and really pushing those tubes to fill a concert hall? I can see where, in this application, a cleaner, less distorting tube would be an advantage. I'm not sure if you'll be able to hear many differences on a 35W tube amp.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the differences are there. A different sounding type of bass, different mid-range bloom, perhaps less edginess, etc.. I guess it comes down to the subtleties that you like best. I think I'm just more of a fan of the EL34.
I've been a tube guitar amp user since 1966, and can hear differences in tube types at all but the softest levels. I recently owned a little head (Egnater Rebel 20) that had a knob that rolled from EL84 to 6V6 tubes...a great idea. Now my fave amps are a small Burriss with EL84s and a Reverend with 6V6s. In my Jolida 502p amp I find tube differences to be fascinating...I've used 6550s, KT88s an Kt120s, all having differences that are subtle but cool. KT120s are preferred currently.
MDP
Behavior Moderator (be nice police!)
Joe, you're fast becoming a tube whore !!
:snicker:
:snicker:
dlb2
New member
Tubes have a way of sucking you in and not letting you go. I'm wondering how long it will take Mike to get back to them once his ARC gear is gone...
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MusicDirector
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- May 21, 2013
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Nice piece. I almost purchased a Jolida tube phono preamp thinking I could get that warm sound my Sansui produces, but my local high-end dealer did me a dis-service by demoing it to me. He put on a record and cranked up the volume far too loud for my taste and it sounded awful and he was using better downstream gear than I have! The problem was 1) The volume was too loud and he didn't show me where the volume knob was (there were all these separates in the stack and I did not know what was on and what was not. He also could not hear me telling him to turn it down. I HATE loud music (loud anything)!!!! 2) Then I find out he was using a Rega MC cart which could not be a worse choice. 3) He also did not use a clean record and I don't think the table was set up properly. (It was hard to tell with everything else going on). So that turned me off permanently. I was very surprised at this for it is not the normal way they do things there to my knowledge. The happy ending though is that I got the Phonomena II which is superior and most importantly better suited for my system I'm using it in. I found that it would be impossible to get that warm tube sound no matter what I did with my system, so in the end it saved me a lot of frustration and disappointment and waste. Now if I had what is in the picture and everything else needed, I'd get that warm tube sound. That said though, I'm sticking with solid state out of necessity. Still a nice looking piece though. ~Eric