I have a lot of not officially released music (and therefore poorly tagged or not tagged at all) which I have not been able to get Roon to give me access to. Even some of my tagged music files don't seem to show up. All of that is in the same folders and drives as music Roon catalogs just fine, so there is something other than drive mapping going on. So far, perusing the Roon forums has not led to a solution, but I will probably try again sometime. Meanwhile, Euphony OS finds everything just fine, although its "browse" function is not nearly as nice as Roon's.
2 pc music server
- Thread starter Alrainbow
- Start date
Alkyogre
Member
Linux software and the dependencies are the same for all distro's, including Euphony. There won't be an improvement here. Another platform is another distro, with their own lay out, but Roon still is Roon and HQPlayer is still HQPlayer.
Second the hardware: a 2 pc hardware system consists of a server, the first pc, and the bridge the second pc.
The first pc is the server. It really needs higher specs then the bridge. For instance Roon says that an i3 computer is the minimum. When converting to DSD (by forinstance HQPlayer) a lot of calculation power is needed, and a lot of heat will be produced. When not converting to DSD only upsampling to high res PCM, not much calculating power is needed and not much heat is produced.
The second pc is the bridge. This pc does not need much specs, it only bridges, even a raspberry pi can fulfill the job. There are of course better bridges then that, but here, an Euphony i7 with 32 GB ram is overkill.
if you combine the server and bridge you get a 2 in 1 system. The classic problem about this: computers produce a lot of electronical noice, and that disturbs audio. So for that reason, streamers (a kind of computer) is used and it is build to reduce noise. My fanless nucs, but also those from small green computer and Euphony have a motherboard, with a great case, The Euphony summus has some extra digital PS Audio output, which makes it appropriate for a 2 in 1 system, the other 2, can be used to hook a USB dac to it.
But my nuc was never intended to use directly with a dac on it, however, after listening it sounds quite good, there are computer builders that really build pcs for audio, with special stuff build, think about a Pachenko, Paul Pang, Jcat and some more. And moreover there are still the classic server/streamer, like for instance the aurelic G2.
so the question is: what sounds best? 2 Euphony vs 1 fanless nuc with a second streamer vs a 2 in one server/streamer system vs an audiophilic build computer directly hooked to a dac?
Randy Myers
Well-known member
It depends on your setup. If you are serving your music to one location, your 2-channel system, then there is no need for a bridge. If you want to server to multiple location then you will to use a bridge. You can go directly out of the server to your DAC to your pre-amp if you are only serving files to your 2-channel system. Why add another un-needed component into the mix?
My server serves all my music from internal drives directly to my DAC. No need for any other equipment.
My server serves all my music from internal drives directly to my DAC. No need for any other equipment.
Alkyogre
Member
because a pc power supply is poor, the pc itself need to be placed far away from your hifi setup, because it disturbes the other compartments and the environment inside is bad for audio.
This is the reason why there are computer builders for audio, who minimize all these disadvantages
Randy Myers
Well-known member
I have not noticed this at all, but then again if one concentrates on high quality, cases, power supplies, etc., then these affects are minimized. Also, if one is really concerned a linear power supply could be used. I have heard arguments on both sides of that fence.
However, you are now entering into an area that has been rehashed a hundred times and really is not worth going down that road again.
However, you are now entering into an area that has been rehashed a hundred times and really is not worth going down that road again.
- Thread Author
- #26
guys the thread was about setting up a dual pc server not sound lol. but since its about sound or tech why sound changes i can say this
j river is a light resource player like others ie foobar and the like . roon is very heavy in resources . the fact is how the pc is used greatly effect's the sound quality .
so we can all agree roon has the best or of the best user interface but how can the sound be made better . well even roon who claims each revision is better to my brain other players have some qualities i like .
some single pc servers are made very powerful and one has dual cpu,s . its why i think it does , but to write software to keep services apart is very complex and give a big a thumbs up to how much effort they put into the best server sound possible .
now for us less bucks up folk , if you use one pc just to run roon core and a second pc running a given player like hq player using the same audio network and running roon bridge to allow the first pc to see the second . one can achieve a greatly improved sound and have a great roon interface too
now the first pc needs to not be as powerful as the second if you just use it for roon alone . while a more powerful pc does sound better , if you dont upsample from roon or use its many other features a quad core i5 is enough . now the second pc can be less but you cannot up sample . if you are one who likes the sound of upsampling with hq plater min is an quad core i5 but better to be i7 multi core cpu .
now the power we use while some insist a good high power switching psu is good enough and it can be . now some very low noise switching psus are around . my point is to use two of them is a good start . as once you go down the road of using linear ones price goes up fast .
if you plan to use just one better psu alone use it on the player pc but know the roon core also does better if using one as well
now hq player is a blizzard of drop sown menus to use. this alone makes them non user friendly . but there is plenty of info out there . its why i posted this thread .
a note you must turn off all firewall and virus protections and a stand alone router just for audio is highly recommend .
j river is a light resource player like others ie foobar and the like . roon is very heavy in resources . the fact is how the pc is used greatly effect's the sound quality .
so we can all agree roon has the best or of the best user interface but how can the sound be made better . well even roon who claims each revision is better to my brain other players have some qualities i like .
some single pc servers are made very powerful and one has dual cpu,s . its why i think it does , but to write software to keep services apart is very complex and give a big a thumbs up to how much effort they put into the best server sound possible .
now for us less bucks up folk , if you use one pc just to run roon core and a second pc running a given player like hq player using the same audio network and running roon bridge to allow the first pc to see the second . one can achieve a greatly improved sound and have a great roon interface too
now the first pc needs to not be as powerful as the second if you just use it for roon alone . while a more powerful pc does sound better , if you dont upsample from roon or use its many other features a quad core i5 is enough . now the second pc can be less but you cannot up sample . if you are one who likes the sound of upsampling with hq plater min is an quad core i5 but better to be i7 multi core cpu .
now the power we use while some insist a good high power switching psu is good enough and it can be . now some very low noise switching psus are around . my point is to use two of them is a good start . as once you go down the road of using linear ones price goes up fast .
if you plan to use just one better psu alone use it on the player pc but know the roon core also does better if using one as well
now hq player is a blizzard of drop sown menus to use. this alone makes them non user friendly . but there is plenty of info out there . its why i posted this thread .
a note you must turn off all firewall and virus protections and a stand alone router just for audio is highly recommend .
Randy Myers
Well-known member
Again, all above has been discussed many times over. So that all is clear, I have run extensive tests on software resource usage. JRiver uses as much if not more resources than Roon Core does. Roon Core, by itself is very resource light, using about 2%-4% of my CPU (I have 8 Cores in my machine). On the other hand, HQPlayer is notorious for being resource intensive. I run both Roon Core and HQPlayer on the same machine and it uses on average about 27% - 30% of my available resources (CPU). The one thing that does show is that CPU utilization is the most used resource. Hard drive use with M.2 drives in non-existent. RAM use is minimal. CPU can spike as high as 45% however. Both Roon and HQPlayer are designed to utilize multiple cores.
As a software and database professional I understand a little about some of this stuff. I prefer to minimize the hardware that my signal runs through. No matter how good network equipment is (most is not good at all) it will and does affect your musical signal. I prefer to serve my music direct from the server machine and therefore minimize any hardware that it travels through. The signal goes through high quality USB cable straight to my DAC.
As a software and database professional I understand a little about some of this stuff. I prefer to minimize the hardware that my signal runs through. No matter how good network equipment is (most is not good at all) it will and does affect your musical signal. I prefer to serve my music direct from the server machine and therefore minimize any hardware that it travels through. The signal goes through high quality USB cable straight to my DAC.
- Thread Author
- #29
No disrespect but it’s not just what you see going on it’s how it sounds.
There is no way running Roon desktop and hq player sound is better then a second pc
even if you use Roon core and hq it’s still obvious once you use a second pc for the
Player
yes I have done many tests on software and formats used bias settings
No matter what the sound is what it’s about
as a caveat
The main Board used matters as much as the cpu and ram
You can’t measure this but it’s true
In any event we each mixture be happy and if you are that’s all that matters
Alkyogre
Member
I don't want to make a dispute: In the meantime after my post the new Hans Beekhuyzen video appeared: the first sentence from Beekhuyzen: "'Computers are made for anything but audio, unless special care is taken". Please watch this vid: I wish anyone the best stuff. Please understand that special care is not building a game pc that is used for audio. Audio Pc's are different then normal standard consumer pc's/ Singxer Audio SU 6 USB audio bridge - YouTube
By the way: my nucs are tested: the nuc 8i5 measures about 80% of CPU uses when using 512 DSD on HQPlayer, the 8i7 about 30%. they can do the HQPlayer job too, with usage of just a 19 Volt, 5 Ampere external LPS and fanless cooling. The Euphony Summus is in specs identical.
- Thread Author
- #31
I’m sure it’s fine but as I said it’s how it sounds
Without getting into what’s best a low power cpu and main board quad core 2.7 gig can play dsd 512 on hq player. let me know if you can upsample from Ted book to any dsd lol.
Based on your comment does anyone need a taiko
I’ll
Bet most say they do
Without getting into what’s best a low power cpu and main board quad core 2.7 gig can play dsd 512 on hq player. let me know if you can upsample from Ted book to any dsd lol.
Based on your comment does anyone need a taiko
I’llBet most say they do
Randy Myers
Well-known member
I really am not a fan of his. I have watched several of his videos and find them not only boring but also riffed with inaccuracies and over bloated ego opinions. I do not consider his opinions very valuable and certainly do not consider him any kind of an authority. Much of what he says is fairly obvious, but also much feels like advertisements.
Randy Myers
Well-known member
I assume you mean Red Book? I upsample everything that plays from my sever to DSD512/48 (24.6Mhz) with HQPlayer. Red Book CD rips upsample fine as well.
Randy Myers
Well-known member
Based on your comment does anyone need a taiko
Of course I would love a SGM Extreme. One of the most powerful Windows computers purpose designed for audio available in the world. Compared to my 8 Core machine the SGM has 20 Cores
.At about $30,000 it is out of my budget (if you are offering I will gladly take
). For many of us we can come close and still be able to pay the mortgage!
Randy Myers
Well-known member
I also have one big problem in that he is required to disclose that he is a distributor/seller according to the rules on AS. It does appear he is a representative and I do not see him clearly disclosing this in his signature. Mike is gracious enough to allow sellers (who honestly are in competition with him) to post so long as they clearly state as such.
still-one
Active member
Based on your comment does anyone need a taiko
Bet most say they do
After auditioning and A/B'ing the Taiko I no longer want the unit. I know a couple others who feel the same but they can speak for themselves.
If your files aren't tagged, then Roon isn't going to find them. I use dBpoweramp to edit tags, artwork, etc. and, after editing the tags, Roon has no problem adding them to the database.
I'm curious, what didn't you like about it?
Randy Myers
Well-known member
The one thing that makes me wonder or makes me think is when people talk about adding hardware to resolve a digital signal issue. Inline switches that are not actually being used as switches, second PCs running different processes, etc.
Hardware cannot improve a digital signal. After the signal is processed by the player software and sent on from the server the only thing that can be achieved is to minimize the degradation of the signal. People talk about minimizing noise, etc., which I agree is important, but adding more hardware has the potential of, and most usually does, add noise. Therefore, since it cannot actually improve the signal, logic says that adding additional hardware will increase the chance of the signal being degraded.
Therefore, I am definitely in the corner of minimizing additional and in my view unnecessary hardware. This is one of the reasons I serve all my music files from drives in the single machine. The signal literal goes from software playing/process straight to the DAC. No switches, ethernet wiring, extra processing units, etc., etc.
Hardware cannot improve a digital signal. After the signal is processed by the player software and sent on from the server the only thing that can be achieved is to minimize the degradation of the signal. People talk about minimizing noise, etc., which I agree is important, but adding more hardware has the potential of, and most usually does, add noise. Therefore, since it cannot actually improve the signal, logic says that adding additional hardware will increase the chance of the signal being degraded.
Therefore, I am definitely in the corner of minimizing additional and in my view unnecessary hardware. This is one of the reasons I serve all my music files from drives in the single machine. The signal literal goes from software playing/process straight to the DAC. No switches, ethernet wiring, extra processing units, etc., etc.