Thread: Please help me upgrade my speakers from kef r3?

Hello i bought kef r3 and nad m33

can you please advice me what next speakers i can get in order to upgrade my current kef r3 please .
my current consideration are
kef reference 1 meta ,

focal utopia diablo,
focal sopra 1, kanta 1 ,

or bowers and wilkinsons 805 d4 these i can order in my country i dont care about brands which i cant order, these are not available for try or test or demo them please advice i want something much better compared to kef r3 please i hope you will reply i want some dramatic improvement over kef r3.

None of the speakers you mentioned will be a "dramatic improvement" over the Kef Ref 3's. The B&W's will certainly present differently though. You might want to go in a different direction with the NAD M33, which would yield your most significant improvement. The KEF R 3's are no slouch!

Originally Posted by Remi

None of the speakers you mentioned will be a "dramatic improvement" over the Kef Ref 3's. The B&W's will certainly present differently though. You might want to go in a different direction with the NAD M33, which would yield your most significant improvement. The KEF R 3's are no slouch!

kef reference 1 meta is brand new speaker, have you ever heard it,
bower and wilkinsons 805 d4 is also new speaker, have you ever heard it?

focal sopra 1,kanta 1, and diablo utopia are older speakers have you ever heard them, so you want to claim that all of these speakers are same quality as kef r3 and there is no point to upgrade?

I have a pair of Kef R1 Metas on order. I purchased these without an audition because I was so impressed with the sound when I auditioned a pair of KEF LS 50 Metas. As crazy as this sounds, the KEF LS 50s (in the room that I auditioned - small) were more engaging than my B&W 802 D3s in my home (which I have since sold- both home and B&Ws - I had a very voluminous space). Room acoustics does play a significant role, as I learned. I still love the sound of B&W, though!
As far as Focal, they are very bright to my ears. I have heard the Sopra 1 and all Kantas. Depending on your room size, a pair of LS 50s with dual subs would sound crazy good! I think the KEF R1 Metas with subs would be hard to beat. There is something magical that happens with the introduction of subs, albeit, I do love my bass.

You are in a difficult position because the KEF 3's are pricier than most of the speakers you mentioned. The only "dramatic improvement" would be an introduction of subs into the existing system, or to the speakers you mentioned. A dramatic improvement means spending a lot more $$$.

Originally Posted by Remi

I have a pair of Kef R1 Metas on order. I purchased these without an audition because I was so impressed with the sound when I auditioned a pair of KEF LS 50 Metas. As crazy as this sounds, the KEF LS 50s (in the room that I auditioned - small) were more engaging than my B&W 802 D3s in my home (which I have since sold- both home and B&Ws - I had a very voluminous space). Room acoustics does play a significant role, as I learned. I still love the sound of B&W, though!
As far as Focal, they are very bright to my ears. I have heard the Sopra 1 and all Kantas. Depending on your room size, a pair of LS 50s with dual subs would sound crazy good! I think the KEF R1 Metas with subs would be hard to beat. There is something magical that happens with the introduction of subs, albeit, I do love my bass.

You are in a difficult position because the KEF 3's are pricier than most of the speakers you mentioned. The only "dramatic improvement" would be an introduction of subs into the existing system, or to the speakers you mentioned. A dramatic improvement means spending a lot more $$$.

hi i already have nad m33
for which i payed 6000$ its purifi streaming amp, 200w per channel at 8ohm, i dont need/want wireless or speakers with integrated amps like ls ii, i want speakers which i can power from my amp like kef r3- i currently power kef r3 from the nad m33.
i also have dirac and many other things from nad...
i never heard from my entire life bowers and wilkinsons but 805 d4 is much very improved with diamond tweeter technology,

focal is with berylium tweeters etcs...
i also think bowers and wilkinsons hold great value ?
which is not true for kef and focal.
802 d3 is at least 1 generation behind 805 d4 series.


how about FOCAL UTOPIA DIABLO?
thats flagship speaker which you can compare with bowers and wilkinsons 800 series and focal reference series?
kanta and sopra are low end speakers...
i dont use currently sub but i have old jvc sub.

my kef r3 is non meta so not sure how much better is this meta,
also i think 805 d4 is much better speaker compared to r3 ,

all of these speakers are pricy 805 d4
focal diablo utopia kanta,sopra etcs..

Magico A1?

But the point that others helping you make is at this range and all being standmount, their performance differences won’t be “dramatic improvement” from each other that much. Adding a pair of subs (REL maybe) or changing your amps might yield “dramatic improvement” you’re looking for.

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

Magico A1?

But the point that others helping you make is at this range and all being standmount, their performance differences won’t be “dramatic improvement” from each other that much. Adding a pair of subs (REL maybe) or changing your amps might yield “dramatic improvement” you’re looking for.

I preffer brands which have local dealers, in case of repair or something is needed not brands which are non existing where i am....

Originally Posted by steve59

I really think the paradigm persona b is the best stand mount available with the caveat that they need a few feet of free space around them. A monitor between them will have to be recessed to prevent glare.

Even if i like them a lot,
i cant buy them no dealership... available.

Room size is 20 m2 , i preffer bookshelves due to their compact size in my country i can get FOCAL
,KEF,
bowers and wilkinsons i cannot go with brands with no dealership due to lack of warranty support and not possible shipping custom fees and other issues so i preffer, some model from kef,focal or bowers and wilkinsons.

Maximum budget for bookshelves 15.000$ thats the price of utopia evo.

Also my room is rented so i really dont need full floor speakers.
i understand they are better deal.

Originally Posted by steve59

I would place an order from music direct for the Yamaha NS5000 with the 30 day home audition policy. I have the Blades and still get excited about those NS5000's. IDK if the stands are integral and they would be too big to put on the computer table.

Bulgaria is small country
we dont have any single dealership
most doesnt keep any stock you cant test try or return its not like the USA.
here our minimal salary is 250$ so i cant do that ,not even such options i can blindly buy any of the listed things.

that model yamaha is not sold or even available to me thats why i suggested several other models from other companies

Honda sales motorcycles here...
thats most often ,
i am looking clearly for end game speaker and i want to be able to hear details and everything i can pair diablo utopia with some svs sub or something...
i dont care about bass i will have dedicated sub, do you think price difference between sopra 1 and diablo is worth it - price is almost double and if we add stands its way more..

i personally doesnt like kef r3
i have in my car focal utopia tweeters
arc rs 6.0 speakers
and audison thesis sax ii speakers
and i more like them,
i also have mark levinson in my other car. and i preffer it over kef r3

[QUOTE=bladest;352375]Room size is 20 m2 , i preffer bookshelves due to their compact size in my country i can get FOCAL
,KEF,
bowers and wilkinsons i cannot go with brands with no dealership due to lack of warranty support and not possible shipping custom fees and other issues so i preffer, some model from kef,focal or bowers and wilkinsons.

Maximum budget for bookshelves 15.000$ thats the price of utopia evo.

I would just get the Utopia Evo. I owned the Utopia Be bookshelf in the mid 2000s, it was a terrific speaker. The EVO has to be even better.

[QUOTE=FastEddy;352381]

Originally Posted by bladest

Room size is 20 m2 , i preffer bookshelves due to their compact size in my country i can get FOCAL
,KEF,
bowers and wilkinsons i cannot go with brands with no dealership due to lack of warranty support and not possible shipping custom fees and other issues so i preffer, some model from kef,focal or bowers and wilkinsons.

Maximum budget for bookshelves 15.000$ thats the price of utopia evo.

I would just get the Utopia Evo. I owned the Utopia Be bookshelf in the mid 2000s, it was a terrific speaker. The EVO has to be even better.

Before Utopia evo colour - there was diablo utopia, not sure how much big difference is diablo utopia is from year 2012...
utopia diablo evo colour is from 3 years old maximum....
Do you consider utopia evo end game speaker did you listen to focal sopra 1 or kef reference 1 or , bowers and wilkinsons 805 d4 ?
what do you like or dont like about them, since i never listened to utopia be , what do you like about the speaker ?
with what speakers do you upgraded your utopia be?

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Welcome to AS.

KEF has an R-Series and a Reference Series, which are you talking about R3 or Reference 3?

If R-Series those you are looking at would be an upgrade. If Reference 3 and you aren't happy there must be another issue. Maybe with the Durak

Thrax is made in your country, I'd take a Lyra over anything you mentioned by a long shot.

i am currently owning KEF R - series kef r3 , i never owned reference series

i am planning to upgrade kef r3 with either kef reference 1 meta,

or focal utopia diablo evo colour,
or focal sopra 1, or kanta 1, or

bowers and wilkinsons 805 d4 because i have dealerships in these brands.

nad m33 have dirac .

I cant hear how kef reference 1 meta sounds or any of the other speakers.
in my country no these Thrax ,Lyra brands i live in small country in Europe Called BG.

So i am sticking with kef,focal or bowers...

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Thrax is from Bulgaria and their speaker is Lyra. Thought you may have access. It would be strange not to be abailable in their own country and hopefully prices are lower than U.S.

I thought there may have been some confusion over what you were using. I have heard the Ref 3 and the Meta Ref 3 and it was a nice improvement.

I really don't have enough experience with those brands you are looking at to make a recommendation. The Meta does make a nice improvement as well as moving into the Reference series which is another nice improvement in itself from the R-series.

i preffer company which are rated and measured worldwide not unknown brand and model which i never heard about them i doubt these will be better for flagships from focal,bowers or kef..


FIND A DEALER | THRAX AUDIO in their dealership page i dont see my country so i dont think they have proper dealership.
i preffer to stick with brands with history, not new brands with zero support and service.

Again
i dont own any kef reference speaker


i own kef r series kef r3 i bought it brand new for 1000 euro$. its not reference series its low quality speaker made in china

R3 | KEF Europe here is link,
i am looking for upgrade.

Have you ever heard foal utopia diablo evo colour or focal sopra or kanta or bowers and wilkinsons 805 d4?

Originally Posted by jmusica

Heard the Thrax setup - electronics and speakers - at the Florida audio show this year. One of the best rooms at the show imo.

Thrax is not unknown in the audio world. Lesser-known, maybe, but I don’t think “new and unknown”.

In my country we dont have audio shows,
not every brand have support/dealership etcs...
even if this brand is from my country they have no dealership here or they are not sold anywhere, kef ,focal and bowers have dealerships.
So do you manage to hear any of their products which i have listed here as bookshelves.

Thrax is probably brand which is created only for export, since here our national salary is 250$ who will buy expensive speakers no body.

Originally Posted by steve59

I know people do buy speakers on reputation alone, but whew, $10-15k? I couldn't do it without a return policy. Even with a return policy some speakers claim to need several hundred hours to burn in. Best.

For focal diablo utopia evo i was quoted for 20.000$ with stands... so i will probably skip these....

So i can get Focal sopra 1,
bowers and wilkinsons 805 d4, or kef reference 1 meta,

all of these simular price in my budget.

I thought Bulgaria was in the EU and you would be able to get any speakers distributed in the EU, and get customer support for them. Is that not the case?
Too bad about the Utopia being too expensive. I heard the Focal Sopra 2 a few weeks ago, not an end game speaker IMO. I expect the Sopra 1 would be similar.

Originally Posted by FastEddy

I thought Bulgaria was in the EU and you would be able to get any speakers distributed in the EU, and get customer support for them. Is that not the case?
Too bad about the Utopia being too expensive. I heard the Focal Sopra 2 a few weeks ago, not an end game speaker IMO. I expect the Sopra 1 would be similar.

i preffer to have Local service, and dealership because shipping is very expensive. Most doesnt ship from abroad and etcs... i dont want to deal with orders from abroad....
i use to have jbl from abroad,
before few years local jbl refused to service it it was extremely hard to ship it find person to bring it for the exchange...


The best deals i can get are for bowers and wilkinsons ,kef reference 1 , and sopra 1 all simular price....
without stands in the stand deparment there is a difference...
i was expecting to receive some decent discount for utopia , also stands for utopia are ultra expensive

Do you think there will be a lot of difference between kef reference 1 meta and diablo utopia?
30% or more?

hi everyone here is update -
here is the measurements for all speakers,
can you clarify them to me if you understand them i dont understand them.

sopra 1
SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - NRC Measurements: Focal Sopra No1 Loudspeakers


SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com - NRC Measurements: Bowers & Wilkins 805 D4 Loudspeakers

bowers wilkinsons 805 d4



Kef Reference 1 Meta Bookshelf Speaker Review

kef reference 1 meta measurements,



focal diablo utopia evo

Focal Diablo Utopia Speakers – Review | HeadMania

Focal Diablo Utopia Colour Evo Loudspeakers

not much info about utopia...


what do you think of that based on measurements what is the best?

I understand that but i need to understand according to measuremtns which is the best...

Originally Posted by jmusica

The only measurement that really matters imo is what your ears tell you.

All of these speakers and models are not available in my country,

dealership cant bring any of these for me to for demo to hear or listen to them...
So my ears cant help in that case.

I've read over this and I don't see where the OP has told us what he doesn't like about his current speakers and what constitutes and upgrade is his mind. Did I miss that?

Also, I am not familiar with that NAD model, but is that a high enough quality unit where the OP SHOULD spend that kind of money on speakers? Will they be outclassing the NAD?

Just trying to help him maximize his chance for success and happiness with his choice.

Originally Posted by MichaelsMinute

I've read over this and I don't see where the OP has told us what he doesn't like about his current speakers and what constitutes and upgrade is his mind. Did I miss that?

Also, I am not familiar with that NAD model, but is that a high enough quality unit where the OP SHOULD spend that kind of money on speakers? Will they be outclassing the NAD?

Just trying to help him maximize his chance for success and happiness with his choice.

Hi,

Nad model is nad m33 its part of the master series 200w per channel based on purifi class d amp 200w per channel 8ohm including dirac and many things.
M33 - NAD Electronics
here are more specs its bluos streaming dac...
and amp at once.
if nad is not enough i will upgrade it in the future...
currently kef r3 i bought for 1000euro and nad for 6000$.
i want to have more and better vocal and clariti and to go to the next best possible upgrade in my price range in the bookshelve range.... since i cant fit bigger full speakers towers...

Originally Posted by bladest

Hi,

Nad model is nad m33 its part of the master series 200w per channel based on purifi class d amp 200w per channel 8ohm including dirac and many things.
M33 - NAD Electronics
here are more specs its bluos streaming dac...
and amp at once.
if nad is not enough i will upgrade it in the future...
currently kef r3 i bought for 1000euro and nad for 6000$.
i want to have more and better vocal and clariti and to go to the next best possible upgrade in my price range in the bookshelve range.... since i cant fit bigger full speakers towers...

The truth is that either one of the speakers you are considering (B&W 805D4 or Kef Ref) will accomplish your objectives -- they will sound great. They both measure well and meet their designer's goals. I think you are stressing too much about this choice. Erin's discussion of the measurements in his review of the KEF will tell you what you need to know about the measurements. The Soundstage guys discuss the measurements of the B&W, if there was a problem with the measurements, they would tell you. Read Doug Schneider's rants about Wilson speakers measurements if you doubt that.

Your NAD M33 is a very good source/amp, it even allows bi-wiring. The only other upgrade would be cables (I use WireWorld cables), I suggest bi-wiring. Welcome to high end audio.

Originally Posted by steve59

I recommended you look at speaker measurements as a tool to interpret the reviewers subjective review. Your room will make a big difference so if your room is bright sounding a speaker with bright tendencies might not be the best match. that said all the speakers on your list are hi quality. I think focal and B&W are must home demo speakers because of the many mixed owners reviews. Kef's were always too conservative, but these new ref and blades are very close.

I recently had some stats from speaker dealer he told me that utopia is the best nothing even comes close in terms of bookshelves...
difference between sopra and focal utopia is close to 50%.

i am still asking for dealerships to make me demo or to get demo pairs or something but no luck still..
most of the reviews are paid and not real ones, they will not tell bad things about expensive speakers in order to receive more different models for review etcs... its good for both parties..


What benefit bi wiring will give to me ?

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, the Ref3 is a nice upgrade over the R3 and the Ref 3 Meta is another big step from the old Ref 3. So if wanting a sure upgrade I don't see how you could go wrong with the Ref 3 Meta.

Kef reference 3 meta or non meta is not a bookshelve its a big speaker
i am unable teo fit kef reference 3 its too big i am currently owning bookshelves kef r3 made in china not part from the reference series.

Originally Posted by bladest

I recently had some stats from speaker dealer he told me that utopia is the best nothing even comes close in terms of bookshelves...
difference between sopra and focal utopia is close to 50%.

i am still asking for dealerships to make me demo or to get demo pairs or something but no luck still..
most of the reviews are paid and not real ones, they will not tell bad things about expensive speakers in order to receive more different models for review etcs... its good for both parties..


What benefit bi wiring will give to me ?

Please watch Audio Analyst YT video #28, bi-wiring does make a small but noticeable difference, it did in my rig.

Originally Posted by FastEddy

Please watch Audio Analyst YT video #28, bi-wiring does make a small but noticeable difference, it did in my rig.

But i need to buy 2nd amplifier or something ?
How much improvement you receive with this bi amplifiring ?
i am not that advanced...
i still cant decide what speaker to get..

Dealers - wants to get the most expensive but i am not sure if diablo utopia is worth 2-3 times the price...
Compared to bowers and kef reference 1 meta at least.

Originally Posted by bladest

But i need to buy 2nd amplifier or something ?
How much improvement you receive with this bi amplifiring ?
i am not that advanced...
i still cant decide what speaker to get..

Dealers - wants to get the most expensive but i am not sure if diablo utopia is worth 2-3 times the price...
Compared to bowers and kef reference 1 meta at least.

I am not talking about biamping, I am referring to biwiring. So just your amp. It has dual binding posts for biwiring, the B&W 805D4 has dual binding posts for this. The Focal Diablo I think has single binding posts so probably won't biwire with them. Bi-wiring means two speaker cables or one cable with 4 connectors on each end. It is a small improvement so not necessary, but something to keep in mind.

Hi everyone just a quick update i have sold my R3 today, chinese stuff , so i am free to get my next big upgrade ,

i was thinking if someone is living close to places/ where they can offer bowers and wilkinsons 805 d4, kef reference 1 meta, focal sopra 1, focal diablo utopia evo colour, can someone go and listen to these, since its really tought , i spoke with greece dealerships today.

Even they cant offer me demo of any of these speakers so if i make trip to Greece none of these available, and simular to countries which are closer to me....
May be someone have good high end hifi shop or something where he can check and tell me his opinion after listening session?

What kind of music? Classical, rock and roll, folk, jazz? Loud volume?

If you are going to Greece does that increase your choices or are you sticking to B&W, Focal and KEF?

Originally Posted by FastEddy

What kind of music? Classical, rock and roll, folk, jazz? Loud volume?

If you are going to Greece does that increase your choices or are you sticking to B&W, Focal and KEF?

I was expecting to go to greece dealership but they are lacking demo of these speakers so i cant try or test these even if i go to greece...


music, dance,black, rnb, pop, loud volume yes.
that kinda of music.
i really wanted to go to some close country in order to try these models/speakers but they doesnt have it in stock they cant order demo units, so i cant test them, because these speakers cost a lot of money no one wants to invest in them.

Siren Speaker System by Thrax Audio i also found new player in town thrax audio same price as focal diablo utopia colour evo brand new.