Thread: Shunyata Launches - ALTAIRA GROUNDING SYSTEM!!

ALTAIRA Grounding System - Shunyata Research

We have been using a beta Altaira grounding system since January! WOW! JUST WOW. Folks that were at the Florida Audio Expo got to hear Richard from Shunyata do the A (Altaira on) vs B (Altaira unplugged) demo and WOW. Folks all came away wanting one.

Well, now it’s here!!!

ALTAIRA Grounding System - Shunyata Research

Roadmap here:

ALTAIRA Road Map - Shunyata Research


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My head is spinning. I just looked at some of the downloads for Altaira. Color me very confused.

At FLAX, Richard suggested the CGS unit was what we should get first and the SGS unit added the topping. But if we already have CGS via an Everest, Triton/Typhon, does that recommendation change?

TommyC - I think the simple answer is - It is complicated. I have connected my DAC/Pre and Mono Amps to the CGS lugs on my Everest via the screws that hold the IEC plug on those pieces of equipment - that was based on the guidance from my equipment maker. Best to call Shunyata and/or your equipment manufacturers and ask them before connecting a signal input/output to a CGS.

Hi guys, no dealer can sell the grounding system until they’ve gone through extensive training and are certified. We are scheduled to be the first dealer to do this next week (with Caelin in our store doing the training).

Once this is completed, we will have a better idea of first steps and the entire process.

We’ve been using the grounding system and playing with it since January. Phenomenal.


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Is this fundamentally the same as the Nordost Q system?

Is this fundamentally the same as the Nordost Q system?

Originally Posted by Mike

...no dealer can sell the grounding system until they’ve gone through extensive training and are certified...

Count me out then. That will never work in my market.

Originally Posted by brodricj

Count me out then. That will never work in my market.

Why? Your dealer/distributor can’t use Zoom?


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The whole concept of active dealer involvement in any way other than box shifting, in a market where some dealers don't even know they are dealers, and don't stock or demo the brand, will be a bridge too far. It 'aint gonna work.

Originally Posted by brodricj

The whole concept of active dealer involvement in any way other than box shifting, in a market where some dealers don't even know they are dealers, and don't stock or demo the brand, will be a bridge too far. It 'aint gonna work.

Wow, Australia sounds challenging. Was this what happened to Bodhi?


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To buy something Shunyata from local Shunyata dealer the first challenge is to convince the salesman they are actually Shunyata dealers. Then you have to explain to them what it is you want to buy because they don't have a clue what you are talking about. Then they need to look into it and get back to you. And then you need to pay a deposit and place an order sight unseen because they don't stock anything Shunyata. And if you can negotiate all that successfully expect them to up the price after you've placed the order. And if you then cancel the order because they will no longer honor the quoted price you need to wait three months to get your deposit back. So if they want to apply that process to buying ALTAIRA here, I say, good luck with that. It 'aint gonna work.

Mike,

Is this beyond the performance of the inherent grounding system of the latest Denali?

Best,

Jim

Originally Posted by Jim Smith

Mike,

Is this beyond the performance of the inherent grounding system of the latest Denali?

Best,

Jim

Oh yes


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Originally Posted by Mike

Hi guys, no dealer can sell the grounding system until they’ve gone through extensive training and are certified. We are scheduled to be the first dealer to do this next week (with Caelin in our store doing the training).

Once this is completed, we will have a better idea of first steps and the entire process.

The information that Shunyata has posted recently is phenomenal - especially the road map. I have fewer than 6 components without an immediate need to separate analog from digital so my path forward is quite clear. Even so, I expect that I might have additional questions so I’m happy to hear that Shunyata will be prepping their dealers.

I hate to say this, but I think these products are gonna put a strain on their dealers due to the volume of questions. It’ll help though that Shunyata is positioning their documents as something customers should fill out (with the help of their dealer) in advance to plan their implementation. This should cut down on the madness.

The documents I’m referring to are here: ALTAIRA Road Map - Shunyata Research

I must say that I especially love the component continuity test worksheet. On another manufacturer’s forum multiple times it had been asked about where best to connect ground cables. I had recommended checking continuity multiple times but I didn’t get the sense that they wanted to hear that answer. Having the process clearly written out will help. Kudos to Shunyata.

The price for the grounding hub is $2998 MSRP. By the time you've tricked it up with 6 x GC cables you've arrived in Denali price territory.

Originally Posted by brodricj

The price for the grounding hub is $2998 MSRP. By the time you've tricked it up with 6 x GC cables you've arrived in Denali price territory.

I know, right? I'm hoping their dealers will provide guidance on when it makes more sense to divert dollars into the conditioner vs. the grounding solution.

You would think for a fixed budget of play money to spend, if the choice came down to either ALTAIRA + GC cables or a Denali, the smart choice would be Denali.

Originally Posted by kzhtoo

The answer is both. They are completely different ways of improving the sonics. Mutually exclusive.

"Exclusive"? I think you meant to say "complementary". At least that is the concept as I understand it.

I am waiting for the first 25 Shark owners to say or

My dealer, Music Lovers out here in Berkeley was trained a number of months ago. And they came out a few weeks ago to determine a) what components would "play" nicely with the Altaira. Ultimately my collection of gear would do well with only about 3-4 digital devices. And that specifically meant using the Altaira CG box since I wouldn't be segmenting my system or in need of more than 6 cables. The main components I've been using/testing are dCS DAC, dCS Upsampler and an Uptone etherREGEN network switch. Will add in a dCS Clock today to see if it does much for what I've already experienced. What I have heard so far has been a quieter system, able to pull out more details and consequently providing greater apparent dynamic contrasts and clarity across the board.

Originally Posted by stevebythebay

My dealer, Music Lovers out here in Berkeley was trained a number of months ago. And they came out a few weeks ago to determine a) what components would "play" nicely with the Altaira. Ultimately my collection of gear would do well with only about 3-4 digital devices. And that specifically meant using the Altaira CG box since I wouldn't be segmenting my system or in need of more than 6 cables. The main components I've been using/testing are dCS DAC, dCS Upsampler and an Uptone etherREGEN network switch. Will add in a dCS Clock today to see if it does much for what I've already experienced. What I have heard so far has been a quieter system, able to pull out more details and consequently providing greater apparent dynamic contrasts and clarity across the board.

Steve, was the improvement commensurate with the cost? I have gotten similar but minor results with a few hundred dollars in isolation footers. Many thousands of dollars and a new box and more wires demands serious improvement before I go there.

The whole area of grounding is a bit mysterious to most of us. This guide is nice in terms of what the Shunyata power distributors do https://shunyata.com/download/15436/ in this area. The power distributors only deal with chassis ground, not signal ground. The new Altaira documentation delves into how this technology seeks to mitigate noise in a more targeted way, especially for signal grounding, rather than the ground plane noise reduction works for the power distributors.

Dealers trained on the tech will be in the best position to help customers properly setup and test their own environment. I personally came to understand that none of my analog gear would play, for a variety of reasons, into the Altaira solution. So, your own system is determinant of what will work.

Originally Posted by Dizzie

Steve, was the improvement commensurate with the cost? I have gotten similar but minor results with a few hundred dollars in isolation footers. Many thousands of dollars and a new box and more wires demands serious improvement before I go there.

What you point out is exactly why you must use a dealer who's been trained by Shunyata to visit you with their kit of CG and SG and all the possible cabling and tails of various types and lengths. This is not just a simple matter of plug 'n play.
Sorry if that's a bit disconcerting, but that's reality. I've had my share of try and buy which often leads to making quick and ultimately poor decisions. If you cannot or are unwilling to do so, then don't bother. As is often said at the gym - "no pain, no gain".

The chassis ground covers the initial 6 attached devices and is recommended strongly for such applications. As you can see from my signature I’ve quite a few potential candidates for the Altaira. And if all could be deployed I would have used a pair of the signal ground versions, splitting them in the recommended manner - one for analog and the other for digital.

When my dealer came, the first thing he did was to “survey” all and use his multimeter to check each component. Turns out my Spectral gear does not play well with any external grounding (the amps rely on the preamp for grounding protection and it’s even necessary to float these mono block’s ground to The AC wall receptacle).

A nasty surprise awaited us when attempting to connect the Spectral preamp to the Altaira. Turning on one of the mono block amps resulted in a noise I do not wish to hear again. So, do not think about messing with Spectral’s ground! They have their own highly sensitive “ecosystem”.

That left only my powered subs, which it turns out, are internally grounded. So, that left me with the DAC, Upsampler, a pair of clocks, network switch, and a couple of LPS’s.

After lots of actual listening it became clear that testing chassis ground for the LPS’s yielded zero benefit - no great surprise there.

Connecting the dCS DAC and Upsampler yielded benefits. However,
connecting the dCS Clock via BNC yielded a less favorable result than not connecting at all. Given the nature of how the clock must be operating vis a vis the DAC and Upsampler, an impact of some kind creates a lack of coherence in the sonic image.

The Uptone etherREGEN network switch benefits from grounding as well as using an external clock, and it was the most obvious candidate for the Altaira. And it proved very much the case. This is by design. At Uptone, John made specific propionate for external grounding and circuitry for external master clock. The etherREGEN, as well as dCS Clock are “commanded” by the Cybershaft clock.

What was unexpected happened when I connected an available port on the Cybershaft clock to the Altaira, and set all the individual wired output grounding switches on the clock: to chassis ground, from isolated. The overall sonic benefits I’d heard to that point improved a bit more.

Sorry for the lengthy post but I hoped to provide a real play-by-play of how and a bit of why each home environment can differ.

Mike,

Steve's post got me thinking. Would the "multimeter survey" always be the same for a component or would it depend upon the individual hook up situation (main power and power conditioning in use)?

If the multimeter test would always be the same it might be possible to create a master list of how specific equipment responds to Altaira chassis grounding. Wishful thinking.

Best to review the docs: ALTAIRA Road Map - Shunyata Research and in particular: https://shunyata.com//wp-content/upl...-Worksheet.pdf

Note that you're measuring very specific points as you answer the questions in order. For example, in my case with my powered subs, I have neither a dedicated ground terminal nor dedicated ground pin (only using a two prong cable into the sub). So not a candidate for Altaira.

By the way, for components with numerous input/output connections, it might, and I say might, be both possible and beneficial to use multiple grounding cables from the component to an Altaira. But it again comes down to testing.

Originally Posted by stevebythebay

When my dealer came, the first thing he did was to “survey” all and use his multimeter to check each component. Turns out my Spectral gear does not play well with any external grounding (the amps rely on the preamp for grounding protection and it’s even necessary to float these mono block’s ground to The AC wall receptacle).

A nasty surprise awaited us when attempting to connect the Spectral preamp to the Altaira. Turning on one of the mono block amps resulted in a noise I do not wish to hear again. So, do not think about messing with Spectral’s ground! They have their own highly sensitive “ecosystem”.

Thank you, noted. I also float my Spectral amps as instructed, and I can also hear and measure ground leakage if I connect their grounds, using my phono which will hum a little. So either float the amps or the phono, and it's best to float the amps. They also sound better that way, with all sources. I just wish I could find a really, really good cheater plug. Will steer clear from grounding solutions like the Altaira.

Yep! Wish it was “safe” to simply rewire my two dedicated 20 amp circuits for the mono blocks to avoid cheaters. So, I’ve been using some from Synergistic Research I got years ago. But there may be others.

Steve, curious, did your dealer measure for continuity before implementing anything as instructed by Shunyata? and did he find a zero-impedance path from preamp ground, via the Altaira, to earth ground?

Originally Posted by stevebythebay

What you point out is exactly why you must use a dealer who's been trained by Shunyata to visit you with their kit of CG and SG and all the possible cabling and tails of various types and lengths. This is not just a simple matter of plug 'n play.
Sorry if that's a bit disconcerting, but that's reality. I've had my share of try and buy which often leads to making quick and ultimately poor decisions. If you cannot or are unwilling to do so, then don't bother. As is often said at the gym - "no pain, no gain".

EXACTLY! No dealer has been trained. We will be the first on Wednesday. No dealer should have attempted this without certification.


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Originally Posted by stevebythebay

My dealer, Music Lovers out here in Berkeley was trained a number of months ago.

The training docs were just finished.


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Originally Posted by kennyb123

I hate to say this, but I think these products are gonna put a strain on their dealers due to the volume of questions. It’ll help though that Shunyata is positioning their documents as something customers should fill out (with the help of their dealer) in advance to plan their implementation. This should cut down on the madness.

Fingers crossed! I passionately believe in grounding, I’ve heard the differences, so it will be worth it.


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Originally Posted by ack

Steve, curious, did your dealer measure for continuity before implementing anything as instructed by Shunyata? and did he find a zero-impedance path from preamp ground, via the Altaira, to earth ground?

Yes he did. And it was appropriately <1 ohm for inlet ground pin to BNC. So, we got a real surprise once we wired up from SPDIF 3 to the Altaira, and turned on the amp.

Not to blindside you, but Music Lovers, out here in the BayArea, received training quite some time ago (visited by by Shunyata). I listened to the Altaira initially the middle of August at their store, and was impressed enough that a number of weeks ago we began testing at my home with a couple of SG and CG and quite the collection of cables. It’s been a revealing slog that’s nearing its end, I hope.

Originally Posted by stevebythebay

Not to blindside you, but Music Lovers, out here in the BayArea, received training quite some time ago (visited by by Shunyata). I listened to the Altaira initially the middle of August at their store, and was impressed enough that a number of weeks ago we began testing at my home with a couple of SG and CG and quite the collection of cables. It’s been a revealing slog that’s nearing its end, I hope.

If you refer back to the visit from Caelin a few months ago (posted here), we received the same initial training, but it wasn’t finalized. We’ve also had the grounding systems since January to boot. However, we thought it prudent to not start Willy nilly running around to customers trying the grounding system until the training was fully finalized and we were certified.

With regard to your situation, my guess is that Spectral and grounding aren’t a good match.


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Originally Posted by Mike

If you refer back to the visit from Caelin a few months ago (posted here), we received the same initial training, but it wasnÂ’t finalized. WeÂ’ve also had the grounding systems since January to boot. However, we thought it prudent to not start Willy nilly running around to customers trying the grounding system until the training was fully finalized and we were certified.

With regard to your situation, my guess is that Spectral and grounding arenÂ’t a good match.


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OK. I wasn’t a party to the particulars, so I don’t know about any “certification”. Just that Grant came down to the dealership and did extensive training within the past month or so. And I’d been communicating with members of their team since Richard happened to broach this project over a year ago. So, I’m a bit of a quasi beta customer, I suppose.

You bet about Spectral. Seems Keith Johnson had already dealt with grounding in the Spectral design, to an extent that precludes any mucking with “outsider” components.

Originally Posted by ack

I just wish I could find a really, really good cheater plug. Will steer clear from grounding solutions like the Altaira.

If it weren’t for the fact that you would easily be able to return this within 30 days, I wouldn’t post a link to this. I’m dubious but I have no doubt you’d give it a fair shake were you to try one yourself.

Originally Posted by stevebythebay

A nasty surprise awaited us when attempting to connect the Spectral preamp to the Altaira. Turning on one of the mono block amps resulted in a noise I do not wish to hear again. So, do not think about messing with Spectral’s ground! They have their own highly sensitive “ecosystem”.

Excellent and very helpful report, Steve. Would you clarify though that you were specifically talking about signal grounding with Spectral? I can’t imagine that things would go amiss with chassis grounding but I just wanted to make sure.

As far as the EtherRegen, I imagined it would benefit so thanks for confirming. At present this is the only thing I have connected to the CGS terminal on my Denali v1. I need to provide it with a better ground cable though.

Originally Posted by kennyb123

If it weren’t for the fact that you would easily be able to return this within 30 days, I wouldn’t post a link to this. I’m dubious but I have no doubt you’d give it a fair shake were you to try one yourself.

That's just a cheap Leviton with folded metal prongs, with a fancy sticker on it

Originally Posted by ack

That's just a cheap Leviton with folded metal prongs, with a fancy sticker on it

Yeah it sure looks that way. But do their enhancements make it into something better is the question. Not something to be answered in this thread so I’ll just leave it at that. Plus, if I was stuck having to use a cheater, I’d probably arrange to have a Leviton put through the QSA process.

Originally Posted by kennyb123

Yeah it sure looks that way. But do their enhancements make it into something better is the question. Not something to be answered in this thread so I’ll just leave it at that. Plus, if I was stuck having to use a cheater, I’d probably arrange to have a Leviton put through the QSA process.

Here are the only cheater plugs that I have found sporting true solid prongs with a very firm grip https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09TXMFRY2...roduct_details
I have tested at least half a dozen plugs over the years

Originally Posted by kennyb123

Excellent and very helpful report, Steve. Would you clarify though that you were specifically talking about signal grounding with Spectral? I can’t imagine that things would go amiss with chassis grounding but I just wanted to make sure.

As far as the EtherRegen, I imagined it would benefit so thanks for confirming. At present this is the only thing I have connected to the CGS terminal on my Denali v1. I need to provide it with a better ground cable though.

After testing my Spectral preamp with the multimeter and verifying it was a candidate for using the Altaira SG we tested as I'd previously indicated, with a less than happy result. Given that it seems Spectral equipment is such an odd "edge" case for grounding, as evidenced by the need to float mono block amp inputs (and this dates back to my prior experience with earlier mono block and their 260 stereo amp), it should not have come as such a surprise that this combination of preamp and amps act in concert to mitigate such ground related issues on their own. As I said before, the designer, Keith Johnson, must have worked quite diligently on this and other aspects all along. And its part and parcel of their demand that customers follow their guidance in using specified speaker and interconnect cabling from MIT that they worked on with Bruce Brisson, as well as MIT power cabling. I wouldn't have stuck with their gear all these years if I didn't believe in what they are doing, and of course the sonic results.

As for other equipment I know about that have successfully mated with the Altaira CG and SG components, they've included top end tube and solid state stereo amps with no issues and solid results

Glad to hear you've experienced success with the etherREGEN and Denali. Others who've used the SG with the etherREGEN have remarked as well on the big impact Altaira has made in their system.

I urge anyone, who's interested in improving their system, to consider engaging their Shunyata dealer, once they've received approval from the company, to first listen at the dealer location. If they're satisfied with what they are hearing, have the dealer bring out the requisite Altaira components and cabling to see how they could perform in their home system.

Originally Posted by stevebythebay

After testing my Spectral preamp with the multimeter and verifying it was a candidate for using the Altaira SG we tested as I'd previously indicated, with a less than happy result.

Steve, did the dealer try the same thing at his store first, with his own Spectral gear? And was that successful?