Pass Labs amp users: Do you use a tube preamp with your Pass amp ? Which one ? ...

The ARC preamps were really nice, but when they tried the Pass XP20/30's, they LOVED the blacker backgrounds and synergy. The thought was that the XP20 was the sweet spot.

That being said, I'm a big fan of ARC gear, but also of amp/preamp synergy. Tough call!


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Next week I will receive a Pass Labs X350.5 I think I will buy a .8 series in 2015. After the XA30.5, XA60.5, XA100.5 and X250.5, it is my 5th Pass. I owned the XP-20 for over 2 years of time. I liked the pre amp, but in my personal opinion Pass create stunning Poweramps and good pre amp, but not stunning.

In 2010 I became Onkyo dealer. I sold it also in the past. But...I didn't know that Onkyo can create a deep and wide stage. Even the cheapest one does. Compared to Marantz, Denon, Cambrigde, NAD, Yamaha, Rotel the stage is a lot wider and deeper. These other brands I sold and tested a lot in the past as well. I test every single tool for all parts of what I call Total Sound. Depth and width is also a part I always test. All the other brands are 2 dimensional. Every brand which have no depth till about 1 metre I call 2 dimensional amps.

In 2012 I became also Audyssey Installer. I use the knowledge and insight I have with acoustic music ( classical) and the knowledge in highend for the way I measure. When I measure at the Audyssey way, you loose dynamics, details, focus and even soundrealism. So I had thoughts about doing it differently. I know from many many brands and even every single product all properties. Because I collect properties and with these properties I build my physical 3 dimensional image and my personal overall sound. I started to measure at different places and heights. Cause of my photographic momory in sound I can compare every single measurment with eachother. This makes it a lot easier to create a higher endresult. Because the difference between the Audyssey way and my personal way is superior. There is so much more drive and dynamics, a lot more details, sharper individual focus, deeper stage, wider stage, better blacks and a much more involving natural sound.

I use the Onkyo PR-SC5509 these days as a pre amp. With Audyssey Volume and EQ you can reveal details which are not there even with the best highend pre amp. I give you a few examples. Compared to the XP-20 you hear word endings on a sss, ttt of th so much more clear than with the XP-20. Moving lips and breathing of singers are so much more clear when you compare it with the XP-20. Instruments and voices are so much more loose from eachother. 2nd and 3th voices are more apparent, but also louder and more easy to follow. Physical apperance of instruments and voices is a lot better than with the XP-20. I can play louder with the 5509 compared to the XP-20 before the needle starts to move. It drives the Pass poweramps more efficient. You do not have any acoustic limitation anymore. The volums of each spaker is exact the same at the sweet spot. Also ther is more control and authority over the whole freq. range. I have talked a few times with Desmond of Pass Lbs to ask them for a highend pre amp with professional roomacoustic measurement. I also modified the stand for the miscrophone. I can measure at mm precision. And that is how I work.

I also created stealth low freg with a subwoofer. I never auditioned any subwoofer at a shos in over 16 years of time or a set of a highend client with this level of integration. A surround specialist said; you have gold in your hands. Stealth low freq. means a full integration of the subwoofer. The energy and dynamics is comming from were it is at the recording. This has to do with timing. Without this pro meaurment I never achieved this level of integartion with any subwoofer without this system.

With Audyssey pro I can create targetcurves. I can adapt every single freq hz I want. I read a lot about human hearing. I wanted to know wich freq. is the most sensitive part of us human beings. What I got is that I could reveal the timbre. edge of a voice. We compared some recordings with other highend pre amps and it was gone.

The fun thing is that people don't expect this. But the easy thing is comparing. Facts counts and the best and most convincing sound always wins.

Now these are only words, but I can promiss you that it is exactly how I discribe it. I had a few talks with MonitorAudio. I want to give this way demos for them in the US. Because I want to demo this during an audio show. In about one year the new Monitor Audio Platinum series will come out. They will be the best for the money in the world. This is always their goal. This time they also will create a more expensive highend loudspeaker. I hope I can demo them.

Soon I will compare the 5509 with my measurment with an Audio Research Ref5 with Spectral amp. I will tell the outcome after we compared it. Comparing and testing is the fun part of audio. I love this a lot, that is why I have done thousends of tets in over 16 years of time. It is a very addictive thing for me to do!
 
Interesting observation about the Onkyo SC5509. I have one in my home theater and was impressed the first time I played it. For both BlueRays and music, it sounds stellar. However, just this week, the video on the HDMI circuit died. Fortunately, the Oppo 103 has dual HDMI ports, so I sent one to the TV, and the other, for audio, to the SC5509. If the Oppo only had one port I would have been in trouble.

Maybe someday I will swap out my XP-20 with it for a test.
 
Without the pro measurement the 5509 is not that special. During the show last year where( many found my set the absolute sound) I was I put all the systems off and on. People were amazed, because most people think you will loose dynamics. I proved the opposite. On Monday I went listening to other sets with my own music. I audioned the Magico S1 with Zanden pre/power and source. Mannnnn...my resolution and articulation of voices was superior. I had a big smil on my face, all those details were all gone. My stage was deeper ( It was my own set with professional roomcorrection) and instruments and voices were more physical apparent. The difference is that they work with expensive stuff and make a combination with it. I am looking for properties and I make a combination of them. This way you have much more control over a set and it is always more complete. Rob Hullekes who works for a distributer of highend products said: you can put the higend market up side down. I am just looking for the best tools, and I don't care what it costs. I still use many expensive tools as well, but not all are that expensive. Sometimes you can create a higher endresult with something what is not that expensive.
 
Amp is x150.8. I had a BAT VK-3ix Super Pak, which worked excellently.

Currently using an Allnic L-3000, puts out a flat 150 ohm signal through out the frequency range. It produces tons more bass. Requires quite a bit of warm up, is super neutral and tranparent. I like it.
 
One of my friend uses VTL TL6.5 II with his Pass amplifiers and has great success. I am using XP-32 with mine X600.8's.
 
This seems to be an old post that has been resurrected, but I own Pass 260.8s and use an XP-22 Pre. I think the synergy is awesome. It's a tube-like sound. Of course other solid state PREs go with Pass amps as well. The EMM Pre is just one example. It is truly a step up from a Pass Pre - costs more too.

If I ever get a TT setup, I would probably seriously consider a VAC Pre for it. Something about tubes and vinyl that just go together well.
 
jichen,

Welcome to the forum. How are you liking the X600.8s?

I own the 260.8s and was wondering about the heat that comes from the 600s. I get 34 watts of Class A while you are getting 50 into 8 ohms. Of course, we double that when speaking of 4 ohm speakers like Magico. The 260.8s only has a little heat - can't tell it at all in my listening chair. What about the 600s?


One of my friend uses VTL TL6.5 II with his Pass amplifiers and has great success. I am using XP-32 with mine X600.8's.
 
jichen,

Welcome to the forum. How are you liking the X600.8s?

I own the 260.8s and was wondering about the heat that comes from the 600s. I get 34 watts of Class A while you are getting 50 into 8 ohms. Of course, we double that when speaking of 4 ohm speakers like Magico. The 260.8s only has a little heat - can't tell it at all in my listening chair. What about the 600s?

Calvin you have less class A as impedance drops, in your case half at 4 ohms vs 8 ohms , the bias remains the same and so does the amount of class A heat produced...


Regards
 
a.wayne

Thanks for this information. As you can tell, I was told and understood otherwise. Thanks again.

Calvin you have less class A as impedance drops, in your case half at 4 ohms vs 8 ohms , the bias remains the same and so does the amount of class A heat produced...


Regards
 
That must be some amazing sound. Unfortunately in N Florida it is normally rather hot and I’m afraid the XAs would run me out of the house. I pretty much need to stick with A/B amps.

Congrats on your Vac. It must be awesome!


I’m using a VAC Master pre with a a pair of XA-200.8s. It’s a great sounding combo.
 
We have Pass Labs X600.8 monos and have tried them with the VTL Signature II hybrid pre and it was quite impressive—mature and anchored is the best way to describe it. But in our system it was not as engaging. VTL pres are awesome with dCS front ends and Dagastino amps, which is how we auditioned it as well. Just did not move us as much in our home system (where it matters) with our Linn Selekt Katalyst DAC/DSM and Cardas Clear Beyond cabling all around.

The Pass XP-32 was also just as impressive as the VTL—especially with our Pass amps (synergy).

However, it did not quite clinch that tube sound we wanted (lots of vocal track listen to we). It was when we slipped in the ARC Ref6SE tube preamp that my wife burst into tears.

Sorry. Demo over. Happy wife, happy life.
 
I am using a Mac C2300 with my Pass Labs XA25. Sounds great. Currently using Genalex 12X7 Gold Lions that I just purchased so still breaking in. I enjoyed and may go back to the Tungsol NOS 5751's I was using prior..very nice too.
 
jichen,

Welcome to the forum. How are you liking the X600.8s?

I own the 260.8s and was wondering about the heat that comes from the 600s. I get 34 watts of Class A while you are getting 50 into 8 ohms. Of course, we double that when speaking of 4 ohm speakers like Magico. The 260.8s only has a little heat - can't tell it at all in my listening chair. What about the 600s?

Sorry for the late response. I didn't notice your question until today. I had the X600.8 for 2 years and I like them a lot. The do generate some heat, I measured it once, they maintain around 50 C degree when fully warmed up.

Julian
 
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