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  1. #1
    Audioshark
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    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Enleum (Bakoon), Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, Franco Serblin Loudspeakers, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, HiFi Rose, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Koetsu Cartridges, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
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  2. #2
    Senior Member
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    Jul 2013
    Location
    Orlando, FL
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    221

    Re: The ultimate Thriller shootout

    I've done my comparisons with the 1983 cd master, the 1999 sacd, and the MFSL sacd and the 2 sacd versions are my clear favorites. Two different takes on the album that do it justice. The MFSL sacd may be more forgiving in brighter systems in ways the 1999 isn't. I'm not sure I could pick a favorite between both sacd discs. They are both fabulously musical!
    Christian

    south: Mark Levinson No. 52 pre, Bricasti M28 amps, Lumin A1, Oppo BDP-205, Pioneer CT-43, Sony SS-AR1 Speakers, Audioquest Dragon PCs, Audioquest speaker cables, Iconoclast OCC interconnects, HB Power Design Powerslave Star Galaxy power distributor

    north: Vitus SIA-030, Luxman D-10X, Sony TC-KA3ES, Harbeth 40.2, Siltech, Iconoclast, and Audioquest, cables in use in the system

  3. #3

    Re: The ultimate Thriller shootout

    Interesting. I have a 2 reel 15ips 2 track tape copy made from a Studio Master by CBS International in Holland. The original tape with catalogue Epic 85930 listed looks like it was made in 1984, it says 84RE which usually means a reissue from two years after the original release, listed on the data sheet. My copy was dubbed in 2021 from one of my dealers who owned the Studio Master. Interesting to see what a top vinyl or SACD sounds like in comparison. The tapes only have the nine original tracks on them. The small signature and date is from my dealer. The data sheet is a copy of the original, since I just bought a dub of the original tape. Note that CBS International in Holland includes five test tones at the head of the first tape from 15kHz down to 100 Hz, so one can dial in the frequency response to more accurately do a dub. 2022-11-30 00-41.jpeg

    Larry
    Analog-VPIClassic3-3DArm,Lyra Skala+MiyajimaZeroMono,2xAmpex ATR-102,Otari MX5050B2, Merrill Trident Tape Preamp, Herron VTPH-2A&BottleheadPhonoPre,
    Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,MykerinosCard,PacificMicroso nicsModel2 AD
    Dig Play-Lampi Horizon, mch NADAC Roon/HQPlayer,Oppo105
    Electronics-DoshiPre,CJ MET1mchPre,Cary2A3monoamps
    Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR
    Other-512 Engineering Tim Marutani Symmetrical Power IsoTrans and cables,AudioDiskVinylCleaner,
    Music-2.3KR2Rtapes,1.5KCD's,500SACDs,60TBripped files

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2022
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    Texas
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    Re: The ultimate Thriller shootout



    Thanks Mike. Now I can't get that song out of my head. Darn you!!!
    "We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    Jul 2013
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    Orlando, FL
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    Re: The ultimate Thriller shootout

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotoy View Post
    Interesting. I have a 2 reel 15ips 2 track tape copy made from a Studio Master by CBS International in Holland. The original tape with catalogue Epic 85930 listed looks like it was made in 1984, it says 84RE which usually means a reissue from two years after the original release, listed on the data sheet. My copy was dubbed in 2021 from one of my dealers who owned the Studio Master. Interesting to see what a top vinyl or SACD sounds like in comparison. The tapes only have the nine original tracks on them. The small signature and date is from my dealer. The data sheet is a copy of the original, since I just bought a dub of the original tape. Note that CBS International in Holland includes five test tones at the head of the first tape from 15kHz down to 100 Hz, so one can dial in the frequency response to more accurately do a dub. 2022-11-30 00-41.jpeg

    Larry
    You refer to this as a "Studio Master." What do you think this means? A tape used to master LP, tape, and digital from? The only RTR release I see of "Thriller' is a US Columbia House issue so I'm guessing it wasn't for a commercial RTR.
    Christian

    south: Mark Levinson No. 52 pre, Bricasti M28 amps, Lumin A1, Oppo BDP-205, Pioneer CT-43, Sony SS-AR1 Speakers, Audioquest Dragon PCs, Audioquest speaker cables, Iconoclast OCC interconnects, HB Power Design Powerslave Star Galaxy power distributor

    north: Vitus SIA-030, Luxman D-10X, Sony TC-KA3ES, Harbeth 40.2, Siltech, Iconoclast, and Audioquest, cables in use in the system

  6. #6
    Audioshark
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Sarasota, FL
    Posts
    29,337

    Re: The ultimate Thriller shootout

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotoy View Post
    Interesting. I have a 2 reel 15ips 2 track tape copy made from a Studio Master by CBS International in Holland. The original tape with catalogue Epic 85930 listed looks like it was made in 1984, it says 84RE which usually means a reissue from two years after the original release, listed on the data sheet. My copy was dubbed in 2021 from one of my dealers who owned the Studio Master. Interesting to see what a top vinyl or SACD sounds like in comparison. The tapes only have the nine original tracks on them. The small signature and date is from my dealer. The data sheet is a copy of the original, since I just bought a dub of the original tape. Note that CBS International in Holland includes five test tones at the head of the first tape from 15kHz down to 100 Hz, so one can dial in the frequency response to more accurately do a dub. 2022-11-30 00-41.jpeg

    Larry
    Very cool Larry. Tape collecting sure is fun.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Block Audio (distributor), Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Clarisys Audio Loudspeakers (distributor), Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Enleum (Bakoon), Esoteric, Finite Elemente, FirstWatt, Focal Loudspeakers and Headphones, Franco Serblin Loudspeakers, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, HiFi Rose, Innuos, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Koetsu Cartridges, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, STAX, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
    Phone: 941-932-0282
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Suncoast-Au...1105178279194/

  7. #7

    Re: The ultimate Thriller shootout

    Quote Originally Posted by Rnrmf View Post
    You refer to this as a "Studio Master." What do you think this means? A tape used to master LP, tape, and digital from? The only RTR release I see of "Thriller' is a US Columbia House issue so I'm guessing it wasn't for a commercial RTR.
    Normally a studio master is the same as a production master. That is a copy of the original master tape which is sent to the mastering engineer who then uses it to cut the lacquer for a vinyl pressing or possibly a CD or cassette release. Along with the production master is sent a safety master which is identical and serves as a back up to the production master in case there is a problem. It is not a commercial release. Normally they emerge from the collections of the engineers who sometimes keep the masters for their own collection and eventually may sell them to others. If you look at the Thriller listing on Discogs, there were a ton of releases done in different countries and normally those would have each been pressed in the country using a production master made from the original master tape. So there are probably quite a few floating around in different collections.

    Provenance is very important and the dealers I buy from normally have trusted sources, often engineers in different countries. They normally get safety masters, rather than production masters, since the record company's policy is typically to have the production master returned to them, but the safety master is often kept by the engineer as a souvenir of the job. You will see tapes on ebay advertised as masters, or safety masters, or production masters. I NEVER buy from ebay. Vast majority of those tapes are fakes - dubs from CDs typically, or even sometime from vinyl (usually after processing digitally to get rid of clicks and pops). There are ways of telling if it is genuine, but the clues are not certain. For example, if you digitize a tape at high rez (say 192/24) and then examine the waveform (I use Izotope RX3Advanced), if the signal cutoff is extremely sharp at 22kHz, then it is almost certainly sourced from a CD.

    Finally, commercial tape releases from the old days were done at 7.5ips or sometimes 3.75ips, and almost all were 1/4 track stereo tapes, duplicated at very high speed (16 times normal speed or even higher). The masters were all duplicated in real time, normally at 15ips 1/2 track (sometimes even on 1/2" tape).

    Larry
    Analog-VPIClassic3-3DArm,Lyra Skala+MiyajimaZeroMono,2xAmpex ATR-102,Otari MX5050B2, Merrill Trident Tape Preamp, Herron VTPH-2A&BottleheadPhonoPre,
    Dig Rip-Pyramix,IzotopeRX3Adv,MykerinosCard,PacificMicroso nicsModel2 AD
    Dig Play-Lampi Horizon, mch NADAC Roon/HQPlayer,Oppo105
    Electronics-DoshiPre,CJ MET1mchPre,Cary2A3monoamps
    Speakers-AvantgardeDuosLR,3SolosC,LR,RR
    Other-512 Engineering Tim Marutani Symmetrical Power IsoTrans and cables,AudioDiskVinylCleaner,
    Music-2.3KR2Rtapes,1.5KCD's,500SACDs,60TBripped files

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2022
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    607

    Re: The ultimate Thriller shootout

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotoy View Post
    Normally a studio master is the same as a production master. That is a copy of the original master tape which is sent to the mastering engineer who then uses it to cut the lacquer for a vinyl pressing or possibly a CD or cassette release. Along with the production master is sent a safety master which is identical and serves as a back up to the production master in case there is a problem. It is not a commercial release. Normally they emerge from the collections of the engineers who sometimes keep the masters for their own collection and eventually may sell them to others. If you look at the Thriller listing on Discogs, there were a ton of releases done in different countries and normally those would have each been pressed in the country using a production master made from the original master tape. So there are probably quite a few floating around in different collections.

    Provenance is very important and the dealers I buy from normally have trusted sources, often engineers in different countries. They normally get safety masters, rather than production masters, since the record company's policy is typically to have the production master returned to them, but the safety master is often kept by the engineer as a souvenir of the job. You will see tapes on ebay advertised as masters, or safety masters, or production masters. I NEVER buy from ebay. Vast majority of those tapes are fakes - dubs from CDs typically, or even sometime from vinyl (usually after processing digitally to get rid of clicks and pops). There are ways of telling if it is genuine, but the clues are not certain. For example, if you digitize a tape at high rez (say 192/24) and then examine the waveform (I use Izotope RX3Advanced), if the signal cutoff is extremely sharp at 22kHz, then it is almost certainly sourced from a CD.

    Finally, commercial tape releases from the old days were done at 7.5ips or sometimes 3.75ips, and almost all were 1/4 track stereo tapes, duplicated at very high speed (16 times normal speed or even higher). The masters were all duplicated in real time, normally at 15ips 1/2 track (sometimes even on 1/2" tape).

    Larry
    Awesome info. Thanks Larry!
    "We are all billionaires because of the huge piles sweet dough rolling in from our participation in the ongoing campaign to suck your collective brains through a stirrer-straw." - PTA Editorial Staff

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Bluffton SC
    Posts
    602

    Re: The ultimate Thriller shootout

    Listening to Thriller over and over again would have to be a labor of love.

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The ultimate Thriller shootout

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