Q: Can anyone speak to the differences between LampizatOr GG and MSB Premier?

Mike said:
I don’t agree. The MSB’s sound extremely analog, the most to me, and similar to my R2R. I think Mike L. would agree.

As for the customer, there was no comparison against even against the Premier I loaned him. He has wisely ordered a REF DAC.


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I would expect you to disagree. No biggie there, to each his own. Variety is the spice of life.
However, my main point remains about the OP. The process lacked a certain logic.
 
Golum said:
As this is a thread related to Lampi vs MSB I read what you wrote in a manner that MSB is reliable and Lampi is unreliable crap which at least for the last part I don't see like that having many Lampies in my own system and hearing even more of them in other systems. Sound wise we can as always debate what is better or worse in this hobby so in general I will not comment on this. But that you personally hosted the world premiere of Pacific DAC with nice presentation at your premises and being their dealer (seems to me you are not anymore) and now bashing the entire brand and calling them sublimely unreliable it's just not OK (in my book).
But we can also say also like this - Lampi is placing focus on sonicall involvement and engagement with musical material, allowing users to immerse into extremely musical presentation in realistic and euphonic way.
And BTW I've heard quite a few MSBs including Select 2 in several systems but to be fair also in mine and I've happily selected other option (more for less $)
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I frankly don’t care what you think. I’m not bashing Lampi. I really like the guys. Really great guys.

I parted ways with them because EVERY SINGLE LAMPI PRODUCT (DAC’s and Amps) had problems and had to be repaired. That’s a fact. Even my Pacific broke and had to go back after I sold it. All of it became exhausting to me and my customers.

Even though the Lampi guys were terrific in handling repairs, it just became too much. I lost good friends and customers over it. Thats another fact. That’s why I talked to Fred in December and wished him the best, but I had to move on. No hard feelings. And as I said, they always handled any problems like champs.

When you’re on this side of things, your perspective might be a little different.

I know they are working hard on the issues above, and once rectified, we can get back to discussing the sound.

For now, I’m glad you’re enjoying your Lampi.


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T
Mike said:
I parted ways with them because EVERY SINGLE LAMPI PRODUCT (DAC’s and Amps) had problems and had to be repaired. That’s a fact. Even my Pacific broke and had to go back after I sold it. All of it became exhausting to me and my customers.

Even though the Lampi guys were terrific in handling repairs, it just became too much. I lost good friends and customers over it. Thats another fact. That’s why I talked to Fred in December and wished him the best, but I had to move on. No hard feelings. And as I said, they always handled any problems like champs.

When you’re on this side of things, your perspective might be a little different.

I know they are working hard on the issues above, and once rectified, we can get back to discussing the sound.

For now, I’m glad you’re enjoying your Lampi.


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Mike,

It sounds like Lampizator is still having QA issues, which is something I had hoped they would grow out of. No sense in sweeping it under the rug if this is the case. Caveat Emptor.

Ken
 
Mike said:
I frankly don’t care what you think. I’m not bashing Lampi. I really like the guys. Really great guys.

I parted ways with them because EVERY SINGLE LAMPI PRODUCT (DAC’s and Amps) had problems and had to be repaired. That’s a fact. Even my Pacific broke and had to go back after I sold it. All of it became exhausting to me and my customers.

Even though the Lampi guys were terrific in handling repairs, it just became too much. I lost good friends and customers over it. Thats another fact. That’s why I talked to Fred in December and wished him the best, but I had to move on. No hard feelings. And as I said, they always handled any problems like champs.

When you’re on this side of things, your perspective might be a little different.

I know they are working hard on the issues above, and once rectified, we can get back to discussing the sound.

For now, I’m glad you’re enjoying your Lampi.
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Problem is that you DO care what I or any other forum member say here, as this forum is a very nice marketing tool for certain brands in the "portfolio" admit it or not, or if others can see it or not.
Talking about reliability I can very easily claim that ARC gear is crap, as I had to take my Ref6 3 times to service center due to idiotic volume control unit (btw Ref6 has 1200h on it) and twice the Ref75 to the service center in last 12 months.
But hey, it sounds nice/great and i love it, so I will make an extra mile for it despite driving me crazy.

I'm also very glad that you are happy, both with the performance and reliability of MSB, as only if you feel like that you can sell many of those to your customers.
And yes, I love Lampi and I love the people behind it as they are phenomenal guys.

Have a great day!

P.S. I very much understand your perspective and your side of things
 
This is one persons view so who makes perfect products ?
who has no support issues ?
In this industry there are plenty of closet items. I find it not fair to post as there is always more to any argument. How is it fAir to make a post to Compare a
4 year old product to a new one three times the price. This is not a setup ?
has any one posted of how much less an upgrade is on his gg dac ?
Has anyone posting heard any new LAMPI dacs ?
Has anyone posting mentioned how many times more the msb product is ?
I owned them I can post and I can say what I feel makes one better. And it's about sound and any msb can't change its sound not even a bit. Tube rolling can.
did anyone Comment on my red book filter
does this new exp msb have it ?
It's not fair to say one is better based on price alone but one still should consider it on a purchase. We are considering three to one on price and it's still ok ?
 
wisnon said:
I heard them and they are very good, but Lampis are much more analog to me and I guess that to each his own. The Sel 1 was a huge "Meh". The Sel2 is much better. The cost of MSB Dacs are very "tasty" now and I could never justify that.

This very thread us a mystery to me. The OP asks for a comparison between the GG1 and the Reference Dac. there is like £X price difference there. Given he has a Lampi and knows and likes the sound, it would be far more logical to compare the Ref to a GG2 or Pacific, if he had an upgrade itch. The GG 2 upgrade cost is a relative bargain. The Pac cost is just over half the Ref cost (I assume its circa $40K starting price). Pimped out fully, the Ref is significantly more than 2X the Pac.

Without even addressing preferences or what is better, I would have expected the OP to first investigate the higher Lampi models...especially since it took a while for the Ref to gain a decisive preference advantage to the "lowly" GG1.

However, since he has the budget, no one should begrudge his spending choices and I hope he remains happy with his choice for a long time.
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First, to the bolded part: if you read the thread title, I was interested in comparisons between the GG and the Premier and that is what Mike sent me to compare.

As mentioned by me above, the GG was the single greatest upgrade I had made in my 30 years in this hobby. Just a list of dacs I've owned and lived with over those years: Theta Basic III, Theta Gen V, Audio Aero Capitole, Esoteric UX3 with Statement mod from Steve Huntely, Berkeley Alpha DAC, Metric Halo LIO-8 pro audio dac, Luxman DA6, Lampizator Big 7 (used), Lampizator Golden Gate. I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

I did not expect the MSB Premier to compete with my GG...seriously. Most of those dacs I've owned were good/better in some way to what I used just prior (not always), but most were also just "incremental". I would have to listen for a little while to determine differences and then a bit longer to determine preferences. The Big 7 and GG were MAJOR steps forward and noticeable immediately. The MSB Premier is incrementally better (to me) in many different areas, but it is incremental, not MAJOR. The key for me is that it didn't give up what the Lampi's brought to my room: organic, natural, cohesive, tonally dense, real-sounding music. The Premier just did those and more a little better.

wisnon said:
Given he has a Lampi and knows and likes the sound, it would be far more logical to compare the Ref to a GG2 or Pacific, if he had an upgrade itch. The GG 2 upgrade cost is a relative bargain. The Pac cost is just over half the Ref cost (I assume its circa $40K starting price). Pimped out fully, the Ref is significantly more than 2X the Pac.
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Secondly, I have investigated going balanced GG about 2 years ago. I received a demo used at one of the shows (can't remember) with the intention of buying it; however, it was all over the map. After about a week with it, I started to freak out about the mistake I had made. My SE GG with Dueland caps was just superior to me and the balanced GG with Mundorfs (I think) made all my albums sound really different, but not better. Fred was awesome and gave me a full refund minus shipping. Now, I have no idea if it was the balanced config, the mundorfs, or something else that so altered my experience with that Lampizator, but it confirmed for me that I must hear a significant component in my system before pulling the trigger.

wisnon said:
Without even addressing preferences or what is better, I would have expected the OP to first investigate the higher Lampi models
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Thirdly, or secondly continued, the start of this thread was exactly the first steps toward examining potential upgrades either within Lampi or (possibly) MSB. I had heard the Select II at Axpona a couple of years ago...sounded really good, but I can't tell a thing from an audio show...strange equipment, rooms, etc. My inclusion of the MSB was more based on what I had read than from that show. There is a great deal of enthusiasm surrounding these new releases and the Premier was of interest to me.

I did not investigate the possibility of auditioning a GG2 or a Pacific, though I would have tried at some point in this process if I had not enjoyed the Premier so much. From past experience, that would not have been so easy because I really don't like wasting dealers/importers time, or my own for that matter. I had already done this with Fred and although he was incredibly pleasant throughout, I felt badly that I had to return the unit. I would not do this again with Fred unless I had little doubt that I would follow through.

wisnon said:
...especially since it took a while for the Ref to gain a decisive preference advantage to the "lowly" GG1.
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I also wouldn't say it "took a while for the Premier to gain a decisive preference advantage to the 'lowly' GG1" The settling in time was predicted by Mike; it was nicely sorted in a couple of days, but my weekdays are very busy and are not a good time to compare equipment. I have a friend who only needs a very short time listening to a component to determine better/worse; I WISH I was that lucky! That Sat morning, I had to become familiar with the sound, to understand how it presents various instruments, recordings, etc. Jumping back and forth would have screwed with my ability to really understand that part of the Premier. For me it is more than better/worse, more like better/worse/preference/worth it...that takes time to reveal...in this case, a full day of listening.
 
Golum, you’re right that no brand is immune to problems, and if there is one, please let me know. [emoji41]. I cannot think of one. It might be a purple squirrel.

Let’s get back to focusing on sound! We can agree that Lampizator makes a fine sounding product and the guys are all terrific. I would argue the Golden Atlantic is the sleeper of the entire lineup and I still have a soft spot for the Big 7.


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wisnon said:
However, my main point remains about the OP. The process lacked a certain logic.
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Please..."lacked a certain logic"? What does that even mean? Read my response just above for the "logic" in play. If you still find it lacking...well then, ask a specific question.
 
Lets all agree to move on it does no one good on either side and not Right to mike on his place. I submit a bow out lol.
Mill be posting a marked up plan for data.
 
Alrainbow said:
Lets all agree to move on it does no one good on either side and not Right to mike on his place. I submit a bow out lol.
Mill be posting a marked up plan for data.
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Thanks, Al. I know you have had a lot of experience on the server side of things. Would appreciate your input.
 
Alrainbow said:
Lets all agree to move on it does no one good on either side and not Right to mike on his place. I submit a bow out lol.
Mill be posting a marked up plan for data.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Both are excellent.

I bet there’s more than a few other brands that wished they had such passionate owners!


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Reg the network plan you shared
what is a ps audio premier ?
same for power filter

did you setup on the output of your router feeding the network SW its own network ip addresses to ensure all traffic is just through the switch and only dhcp is used from the router ?
Then I can give advice and add on devices , I'm cheap so no need for exp stuff by me lol.
 
Alrainbow said:
Reg the network plan you shared
what is a ps audio premier ?
same for power filter

did you setup on the output of your router feeding the network SW its own network ip addresses to ensure all traffic is just through the switch and only dhcp is used from the router ?
Then I can give advice and add on devices , I'm cheap so no need for exp stuff by me lol.
Click to expand...


The PS Audio Premier is a power re-generating amplifier (i.e. turns AC to DC, then rebuilds the AC waveform). Power filter is a passive power filtering device, also by PS Audio, but not sure the name off hand.

I have not done anything with the router or switch. Router plugs into cisco switch, then all other cables feed into switch.

Thanks.
 
Ok ty for answers I like ps audio power products they work well. I use a P10 to power all of my front end
dsc / all computer and network and preamp
only not used for amps
for me no amp does well on there stuff and most iso cond as they limit power unless it's ten k watts or above. But that's for another topic
lps is good for all computers / nas / routers and sws
I'll be posting comments later and I'm not being an absolute person
here.
 
Can you add Ona cheap lps to the network SW
and at the router make the one port have its own network address
meaning as below
now maybe 192.168.1.1 is the gateway
make new one on just that port
192.168.0.1. In doing so all audio traffic goes through your SW alone
a more simple way is to add a router after tour main one
it gets the lps and it should make its own network like I said above. But never use a router as a SW too there is too many other cammands being done all the Time. Where a SW just does traffic
this is what I do.
Just use its wan input from your current routers lan port
get all routers and sws to be gig band speed
meaning 10/100/1000.
Also all data cables leaving your audio network switch to be cat 7 shielded
mill explain why in next post.
Also mike if to worst to move this topic to its own if you wish. I'm happy to stay here
 
Cat 7 is rfi Shielded inside for each pair Separately and in addition it's then shielded
now unless we use a shield rj45 it's useless and even worse of used on both sides
but if we use a tiny wire on the computer side only one side to it's ground or case
this makes the shield even more effective in giving the desktop ground plain to own the data transmission.
Cat 7 alone yields a audible improvement
now don't buy data Cables on eBay or amazon they are most likely fake
by form known sources like BHPHOTO OR
usa bAsed makers
im not a paranoid Person but I have seen all fake no real for the most part on bay and amaz.
So be aware
 
as for a server, highly recommend an Innuos to partner with the Ref. Then you don't need any of the doodads, filters, etc. Its pretty much plug n play. Not to mention it sounds fantastic.
 
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