Magnepan 30.7 Demo

Jim Smith said:
??? When did I mention trying to bad mouth???



Umm, Wendell arrived at a facility that the dealer had chosen and theoretically vetted for a good demo...

What should he have done after driving all the way down from Atlanta with the speakers in the back of the van and unloading them at the demo location?

At best, he had several hours to set-up.

IMO, it was a tough call (at least that I wouldn't want to make under the circumstances).



How would all those that attended have reacted if he decided not to do the demo?
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Well for starters not have them so wide apart , further into the room would help a lot and bass panels to the outside so the image wouldn't collapse ...

Not an ideal room , but i don't see how it's any different to the typical roving audio show demo , where everything is unknown, this is not Wendell's first rodeo by far . Paul took the same nonchalant steps at Munich some years ago and presented a similar disaster with maggies ...

Obviously bad demo and setup that would require another listen .....




Just saying ....
 
AJ Soundfield said:
Well for one thing the potted plants need to be on audiophile footers. Can't have them resting directly on the carpet with dielectric effects and all that mumbo jumbo.
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Is that true AJ? I didn't know that; I love this hobby, I keep learning something new almost every day. :)

- It is not my favorite ceiling.
- The walls are "nude"
- The front wall is a big glass window.
- The high frequency panels are HUGELY separated.
- No open-reel tape deck and no turntable.

Just a simple very quick observation, not a criticism.

* A gentle touch of humor? Not today, I'm cooking.
36+ Celsius, I'm fried, toasted, wasted, with poor air quality because of all the forest fires. ...Over 600 in my province alone. It feels like Jakarta, Mumbai, Mexico City, ...
 
NorthStar said:
Is that true AJ?
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You read it on the internet, so it is.
If you listen to Radioheads Fake Plastic Trees EP played backwards on your turntable, you'll hear "audiophile footers" clear as day.

Ok, I think this is also a case of a time limited, hasty, non-optimal setup, so I'll reserve judgement on these 30.7s.

cheers,
AJ
 
AJ Soundfield said:
You read it on the internet, so it is.
If you listen to Radioheads Fake Plastic Trees EP played backwards on your turntable, you'll hear "audiophile footers" clear as day.

Ok, I think this is also a case of a time limited, hasty, non-optimal setup, so I'll reserve judgement on these 30.7s.

cheers,
AJ
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"You read it on the internet, so it is"

I couldn't agree more, this is "The new world order". The copy and paste mentality of the NET. The new truth.

In any case much to do about nothing. I am sure these speakers sound great. One of the most if not THE most successful speaker brand in history, I am sure, wouldn't have been released unless they sounded great. Agree, likely bad setup, etc.
 
jap said:
Another recent take on the 30.7s:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=159073.0
attachment.php
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Totally different setup with bass panels outside, main panels in, room bit more rectangular, etc. Totally different reactions it seems. Hmm.
My guess would be better wall outlets and fuses as the main culprit.
 

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AJ Soundfield said:
Totally different setup with bass panels outside, main panels in, room bit more rectangular, etc. Totally different reactions it seems. Hmm.
My guess would be better wall outlets and fuses as the main culprit.
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Yes. Aren't cryogenic treated mains outlets just the bee's knees?

I'm sure in this case though the massive VTL tube power amplifiers will be having an positive influence on the sonic results. :D
 
Oh, look, a chair!

Those who weren’t there, listen to those who were. If you weren’t there, you don’t know. Many chose driving home in traffic to staying. ‘Nuff said.


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I also attended this demo, and likewise felt it was not an optimal presentation. However, I think the room (and orientation within the room) deserve most of the blame. I presume Wendell (and the local dealer) did the best they could given the time constraints, and would have opted for a better venue if they could have found one. Interestingly, I noticed some resistors (I believe) placed across the panel inputs, likely to tame some of the brightness of the setup. I've heard large Maggie's (not the 30.7's) at other shows/demos, and was always impressed with their overall tonality and imaging.

The bigger issue, however, is the marketing approach Wendell/Magnepan is taking. Most of the attendees were (relatively) fossilized geezers like myself who are members of our two local audiophile societies, who were just curious to hear the new model, yack it up with like-minded folks, with no intention of buying a pair. IMHO, they should have been demo'ing at least THREE models, at various price points (including the Mini Maggies and/or MMGi, a mid-priced model, and the 30.7's), with a local social media publicity blitz targeting college students and millennials, telling them to bring their portable music sources for a free demo. Otherwise (as I told Wendell) I think they're wasting time and $$ "preaching to the choir."

Off soapbox. :D
 
Mike said:
Oh, look, a chair!

Those who weren’t there, listen to those who were. If you weren’t there, you don’t know. Many chose driving home in traffic to staying. ‘Nuff said.


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What is your point Mike. It could be taken 2 ways.

1 The 30.7 are just bad no matter the situation.

2 The 30.7 were set up wrong in a bad room with non optimum electronics - etc. Just a bad showing that evening.

Why is everyone so focused on this evening and only this showing? Are people looking for a reason to not like this model?
 
Okay. So it looks like Brad and I (who were actually there) gave our opinion on these flagships. We did not try and psychoanalyse what we heard, as the whys and the wherefores are only speculation at best. I did not bring up Magnepan’s past success either. Neither did I look at the photos and ask why there were windows on the back wall or flower pots sitting on the floor. I guess this is where our hobby has gone. Someone who loves the 20.7’s cannot speculate how great the 30.7’s are without hearing them. I am not saying my opinion is absolute, but all this talk is just that if you have never heard these particular models. Yes, no one was more of a fan of Magnepans then me. Do I love the fact that they are one of the last bastions of USA made audio products ? YES. But I love audio too much to not be objective about what I am actually hearing. Shouldn’t we simply let these transducers stand on their own merrit ? I would hope we can do that without bringing all this baggage into the discussion. It might sound brutal, but when I go to audio shows or when I go to a dealer for a demo, I give them one chance to put their best foot forward. If the sound does not suit me I move on. Why should I waste my time trying to speculate why ? The fact is, I really don’t know why. More importantly I really don’t care.
 
My last reply in this thread:

I was thinking how fabulous they could sound in Mike’s middle showroom - for two reasons - (1) a vastly better room. And (2) Mike would definitely have made sure the sound was going to be good by making the time and insisting on a knock-out demo.

IMO, of course.


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Jim Smith said:
My last reply in this thread:

I was thinking how fabulous they could sound in Mike’s middle showroom - for two reasons - (1) a vastly better room. And (2) Mike would definitely have made sure the sound was going to be good by making the time and insisting on a knock-out demo.

IMO, of course.


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Oh Absolutely. Thanks for the kind words Jim. I would get them dialed in, that you can be sure. I would definitely not have people standing (rather than sitting) as you get nasty reflections off the ceiling. But standing negates the obvious: the pea size sweet spot of all Maggies. I did grab a chair (as you can see by the photo). Just don't shift from one butt cheek to the other or you'll lose the center image. I certainly have a lot to say on the matter, but I think its best I just keep my thoughts to myself concerning the company and its representative. I've owned five pairs of Maggies, I know what they can do and what they can't do well. When you are shopping in the $5K territory, they make a very compelling argument and give you a wow factor like few others in that price point can do. When you are talking $30K, I think there are lots of things to take into consideration.

As a dealer, I don't think I would be interested. Magnepan requires all their dealers to have solid core store hours (Monday - Saturday). This, to me, is an outdated model and certainly not one that makes sense in my Geographical region. Also, I just can't do that due to my personal circumstances with my children. I'm up at 5:45am to begin my day with school and before school activities. During the day, I have other matters to attend to and can't always be at the store (although, most times I am at the store during the bulk of the day). Maggies require a lot of floor space, look like room dividers, have a lot WAF and frankly, they are a lot of work for not a lot of money. Most Maggie dealers I know dread dealing with headaches for such little ROI. But the 1.7/3.7's are very popular and the MMG's make a great intro speaker for not a lot of money.

I would love a panel speaker offering, but my heart is with Quad, SoundLabs, KLH Model 9's (the new ones), Martin Logan (the new ESL 9/11/13/15a series is awesome), etc.

I truly wish the local dealer luck with the brand. He's a very nice man, I enjoyed meeting him and certainly a big step up in terms of personality than the last guy who sold Maggies in this area. I truly hope he does well with the brand.

Mike
 
Mike said:
Oh, look, a chair!

Those who weren’t there, listen to those who were. If you weren’t there, you don’t know. Many chose driving home in traffic to staying. ‘Nuff said.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Mike-I have never heard the 30.7s in any venue. I'm not proclaiming them as good or bad speakers. I believe that people who were at the demo you attended agree the 30.7s didn't sound good as demoed in that particular room with the gear that was provided for the demo. My only point is that how do you know what the culprit or culprits are for the bad sound? I would never walk into a room at an audio show and hear a system that didn't sound good to me made up of components I'm not familiar with, and walk out of the room and tell people the reason the sound sucked was due to the speakers.
 
mep said:
Mike-I have never heard the 30.7s in any venue. I'm not proclaiming them as good or bad speakers. I believe that people who were at the demo you attended agree the 30.7s didn't sound good as demoed in that particular room with the gear that was provided for the demo. My only point is that how do you know what the culprit or culprits are for the bad sound? I would never walk into a room at an audio show and hear a system that didn't sound good to me made up of components I'm not familiar with, and walk out of the room and tell people the reason the sound sucked was due to the speakers.
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b8eff562309e636afcdd302d42ddbc14.jpg






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Mike said:
Oh Absolutely. Thanks for the kind words Jim. I would get them dialed in, that you can be sure. I would definitely not have people standing (rather than sitting) as you get nasty reflections off the ceiling. But standing negates the obvious: the pea size sweet spot of all Maggies. I did grab a chair (as you can see by the photo). Just don't shift from one butt cheek to the other or you'll lose the center image. I certainly have a lot to say on the matter, but I think its best I just keep my thoughts to myself concerning the company and its representative. I've owned five pairs of Maggies, I know what they can do and what they can't do well. When you are shopping in the $5K territory, they make a very compelling argument and give you a wow factor like few others in that price point can do. When you are talking $30K, I think there are lots of things to take into consideration.

As a dealer, I don't think I would be interested. Magnepan requires all their dealers to have solid core store hours (Monday - Saturday). This, to me, is an outdated model and certainly not one that makes sense in my Geographical region. Also, I just can't do that due to my personal circumstances with my children. I'm up at 5:45am to begin my day with school and before school activities. During the day, I have other matters to attend to and can't always be at the store (although, most times I am at the store during the bulk of the day). Maggies require a lot of floor space, look like room dividers, have a lot WAF and frankly, they are a lot of work for not a lot of money. Most Maggie dealers I know dread dealing with headaches for such little ROI. But the 1.7/3.7's are very popular and the MMG's make a great intro speaker for not a lot of money.

I would love a panel speaker offering, but my heart is with Quad, SoundLabs, KLH Model 9's (the new ones), Martin Logan (the new ESL 9/11/13/15a series is awesome), etc.

I truly wish the local dealer luck with the brand. He's a very nice man, I enjoyed meeting him and certainly a big step up in terms of personality than the last guy who sold Maggies in this area. I truly hope he does well with the brand.

Mike
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Mike,

First I agree with everything you say and they are definitely NOT for everyone.

The one comment you made; "When you are shopping in the $5K territory, they make a very compelling argument" I think requires some clarification. Even at 5K while you might be purchasing a relatively inexpensive speaker, you need to spend a decent amount on appropriate amplification to drive them to the best of their ability; so the 5K often leads to a much more expensive endeavor than the enduser initially thought.
 
Priaptor said:
Mike,

First I agree with everything you say and they are definitely NOT for everyone.

The one comment you made; "When you are shopping in the $5K territory, they make a very compelling argument" I think requires some clarification. Even at 5K while you might be purchasing a relatively inexpensive speaker, you need to spend a decent amount on appropriate amplification to drive them to the best of their ability; so the 5K often leads to a much more expensive endeavor than the enduser initially thought.
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Yes, absolutely true. They love power/current, but the smaller models can't play loud, a bit of a conundrum indeed. Like I said, I've owned 5 pairs (MMG, 1.6, 1.7, 3.6 and lastly, 3.7's). I enjoyed my time, but I went nuts constantly adjusting them due to the tiny sweet spot. Bass has a bit of a "plastic" sound I always found as well.

But look, setup right, playing classical music perhaps, in the right room, right electronics, the 30.7's can do some things very well I'm sure. I just think it's best to demo speakers in a proper seating position. Everyone can share the sweet spot, it's ok, they'll live.

I know Jim Smith advocates finding the best seating position FIRST, then dial in the speakers. I do too. When the demo is "no chairs allowed, go walk around", I don't know if that's the best approach. Reflections off the ceiling are a real problem and actually create time delay issues. I tried to explain this to the powers that be at the demo, but was told, "if you want a use a chair to stand on, that would be ok, but not to sit on." I'm not sure what the point was. It's so hard to focus on what's going on when the high frequencies are reflecting off the ceiling and singeing your ears off. As you can see by the picture, I'm not a good listener. In the chair, I was able to get a much better idea of what the speakers can do and not do. I had a hard time with the very over sized imaging, as others have mentioned above. Again, could be setup, don't know.
 
Thanks to the attendees for sharing your opinions!

Regarding the sole chair in the room, from what I read about these demos, Magnepan has insisted on having no seats at these events. As an owner of Magnepan speakers, i have to agree with Mike about the small size of the sweet spot and how important it is to be *seated* at that spot to fully appreciate what they can do. IMHO Forcing folks to listen to these speakers while standing is questionable.

As the saying goes, you only have one time to make a good first impression. Sounds to me that regardless of the reason (speaker, room, seating or lack there of, electronics, etc.) Magnepan has been wasting that opportunity at these demo shows.

I have been a fan of Magnepan speakers for many years and very much would like for the 30.7 to succeed. I moved from the 3.6 to the 20.1 and then to the 20.7 without bothering to listen to any other speaker. I consider all of them fantastic speakers and an amazing value. However, at twice the price of the 20.7, any potential buyer of the 30.7 would likely be exploring other options as well. (At least I would).
 
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