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  1. #1
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    Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Mike has informed me that the Revel Ultima Salon 3's are being targeted for CES 2016 launch. I spoke to Revel a few weeks ago about the Salon 3 and they told me that they didn't have a Salon 3 in the works yet but they were looking at various ideas. I think it would be fun to hear everyone's thoughts on what would be the best design for Revel's new Ultima Salon 3. So let's hear everyone's thoughts.

    Thanks,
    Ken
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  2. #2
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    I'll get the ball rolling. I would like to see Revel move to lighter and stiffer speaker cones. Specifically, carbon fiber nanotubes in a sandwich construction with a rohacell or balsa core. I would also like to see them switch to a ribbon tweeter from their current beryllium dome tweeter. As good as their beryllium dome tweeter sounds, I think a properly designed ribbon tweeter is inherently smoother and more lifelike sounding.

    I love the current tall narrow design of their cabinet, contoured low diffraction baffle and down firing woofer port, so I wouldn't change that at all. I would also stick with the three 8 inch woofers, one 6 1/2 inch mid-woofer and one 4 inch midrange. I believe this speaker combination and crossover network provides a very seamless integration of bass, midrange and treble. I am not sure if Revel is using an electronic phase adjustment in their crossover between the woofer, midrange and tweeter but if not, I believe they should add this feature. Lastly, I would keep the woofer and tweeter attenuation switches on the back of the speaker, as I feel they facilitate room matching.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
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  3. #3
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Whatever the new Revels turn out to be, I'm buying it. I loved the Studio2 and have heard the Salon2 and a friends house several times. Wow! Love that speaker. A Salon3 or whatever is coming home with me.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Throw it in a fire. Ooops. Maybe that opinion was meant for a different thread.

  5. #5
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    First, don't touch the tweeter. Use the same tweeter that is in the salon 2. Second, keep or improve upon the adjustability options for dialing the speaker into the room. Third, midrange needs to be improved. Vocals, especially with solid state are recessed. Fourth, bass needs to be increased. Fifth, can we please make the drivers much more efficient? 92db or above.
    Sixth, look back to the original Salon and integrate the super tweeter. And finally, hire an Italian designer to build the cabinet!
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  6. #6
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    First, don't touch the tweeter. Use the same tweeter that is in the salon 2. Second, keep or improve upon the adjustability options for dialing the speaker into the room. Third, midrange needs to be improved. Vocals, especially with solid state are recessed. Fourth, bass needs to be increased. Fifth, can we please make the drivers much more efficient? 92db or above.
    Sixth, look back to the original Salon and integrate the super tweeter. And finally, hire an Italian designer to build the cabinet!
    Wow! I owned Studio 2's and they were great, but that pretty much nails everything that would make these great speakers even better.
    Buddy

  7. #7

    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    First, do no harm. The Salon 2s are great speakers. I sure as heck wouldn't mess with the things they do so well. One improvement……..these speakers with a higher efficiency would put them over the top.

  8. #8
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    I love Salon 2's !

    The only small complaint I had was that I wish they had more of a 3D soundstage.
    Mark


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  9. #9
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Regarding efficiency, either some low end extension would have to be given up or the cabinet size would have to increase for them to be more efficient...all thanks to Hoffman's Iron Law.

    Unlike many other manufacturers, at least they appear to be honest about efficiency ratings.


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  10. #10

    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP View Post
    I love Salon 2's !

    The only small complaint I had was that I wish they had more of a 3D soundstage.
    Mark, It's so hard to know what we each are hearing, but with the Hegel and the Salons, in my room, the soundstage is excellent. However, I do know what you are saying. There could be greater depth.

    Seeing as we both recently parted with the Raidho D3s, I think we may be ruined forever, when it comes to 3D sound stages.

  11. #11
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceLet View Post
    Mark, It's so hard to know what we each are hearing, but with the Hegel and the Salons, in my room, the soundstage is excellent. However, I do know what you are saying. There could be greater depth.

    Seeing as we both recently parted with the Raidho D3s, I think we may be ruined forever, when it comes to 3D sound stages.
    Maybe so Bruce. You're right about me not having the Hegel at the same time I owned the Salon's, that could have made the difference.

    The D3's were magic in that aspect!
    Mark


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  12. #12
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    two minor nits about Revels: they should consider anodizing the cones black à la YG and switch to statin/matte finishes on their wood veneers. bigger picture: make them more tube friendly, I believe Voecks doesn't think they're relevant to their market, imo its a mistake not too.
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  13. #13
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    My Studio2's were outstanding with my CJ ART monos. I would love to hear the Salon2 with my CJ gear. It was one of those wonderful combinations that was so satisfying.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    I really enjoyed my Salon 2s.

    - I'm ok with the current tweeter and agree that the mid could be improved
    - make them more efficient so that a 400+W amp is not a requirement
    - Get rid of the silly door that is intended to cover the speaker connectors - I removed it from day 1
    - would like to see improved and tighter bottom - although the S2s are very respectable in this area

    And, keep them under $30K.
    _______________

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  15. #15
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    First, don't touch the tweeter. Use the same tweeter that is in the salon 2. Second, keep or improve upon the adjustability options for dialing the speaker into the room. Third, midrange needs to be improved. Vocals, especially with solid state are recessed. Fourth, bass needs to be increased. Fifth, can we please make the drivers much more efficient? 92db or above.
    Sixth, look back to the original Salon and integrate the super tweeter. And finally, hire an Italian designer to build the cabinet!
    All are excellent ideas, Mike. However, I haven't found the vocals to be recessed at all in my system with Pass or Soulution components. Maybe it was the room or the setup?

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
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  16. #16
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Ken,

    For what it's worth, I'll cosign on Mike's observations. Almost every Revel loudspeaker that I've encountered could use a bit more junk in the midrange trunk.

  17. #17

    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Ken,

    For what it's worth, I'll cosign on Mike's observations. Almost every Revel loudspeaker that I've encountered could use a bit more junk in the midrange trunk.

    "...junk in the midrange trunk..." seriously, astrotoy/Larry will flip if he reads this!

  18. #18

    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    I love the current tall narrow design of their cabinet.
    Ken
    I agree with that.

    My hopes for Salon3 are:
    1) similar sized cabinet as Salon2
    2) similar price as Salon2
    3) more finish options than Salon2:
    * matte wood finishes, including walnut
    * not necessarily black front (in contrast to Salon2)
    4) Hopefully no biwiring possibility.
    5) Textbook measurements, just like Salon2.

    Revel knows how to make great speakers: Definitively a brand that deserves high sales figures.

  19. #19
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Welcome to the forum PacMan! Thank you for joining.
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  20. #20
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Welcome to AS PacMan !
    And you are so right about Revel, they make fabulous speakers.
    Mark


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  21. #21

    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Joeinid and Mark: Thanks to both of you for welcoming me to this forum.
    My first impression is that this is a good forum.

  22. #22
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Quote Originally Posted by PacMan View Post
    I agree with that.

    My hopes for Salon3 are:
    1) similar sized cabinet as Salon2
    2) similar price as Salon2
    3) more finish options than Salon2:
    * matte wood finishes, including walnut
    * not necessarily black front (in contrast to Salon2)
    4) Hopefully no biwiring possibility.
    5) Textbook measurements, just like Salon2.

    Revel knows how to make great speakers: Definitively a brand that deserves high sales figures.

    Excellent ideas, PacMan. Welcome to Audio Shark!

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
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  23. #23
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers



    Thank you for being here!


    Quote Originally Posted by PacMan View Post
    Joeinid and Mark: Thanks to both of you for welcoming me to this forum.
    My first impression is that this is a good forum.
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  24. #24
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    I sent a link to this thread to Kevin.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  25. #25
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    My ART monos on the Studio2's was stupid good and I mean GREAT (for my taste)! I'd love to hear the Salon2 with my ART monos and hopefully will soon.
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  26. #26
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Mike,

    Good idea! As a former happy owner of the Salon 2s, it would be great to see a new generation of the Salons sometime soon.

    Mike
    _______________

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  27. #27
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I sent a link to this thread to Kevin.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Mike,

    That is so cool!

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
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  28. #28
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    From Kevin:

    "Michael,

    Many thanks!

    Best regards,
    Kevin"
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Bakoon Audio, Berkeley Audio Design, Block Audio, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Franco Serblin Loudspeakers, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Koetsu Cartridges, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Nordost Cables, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, Vivid Audio Loudspeakers, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  29. #29
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    I wish Kevin could share his design goals for the next generation with us.
    Mark


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  30. #30
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    +1
    _______________

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  31. #31
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Hello all!

    I've perused the forum plenty in the past but here goes my first post...

    I've owned the Studio 2's for around 2 1/2 years now and have never heard the Salons so I'll comment with regards to the Studios only.

    I concur with others who say the midrange could use improvement. Personally I would want a more 'robust' midrange and would say that it can be somewhat flat/dry in that range at times.
    The other nitpick I have is with the bass response. Sometimes these speakers seem to sound a little small and thin given their size and driver complement. Perhaps a little over damped giving the slight sensation that the speakers aren't totally unencumbered in their flow of music. Honestly the bass I am getting now is quite satisfying but I just think it could stand to be a little more generous especially since we are given the option to scale it back with the boundary compensation if need be.
    Other than that I think a better looking grill and a more refined baffle that hides the driver hardware would be excellent as well.

    In my opinion those things would make an already great speaker even easier to love.
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  32. #32
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Welcome to the forum Nile! Thank you for joining.
    Fleetwood Deville by Oswald Mills Audio, Vienna Acoustics Haydn Jubilee, Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

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  33. #33
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Welcome to Audio Shark, Nile! Excellent comments.

    Ken
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  34. #34
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    After giving it more thought, I would only make two changes for the Salon 3.

    1) A diamond coating on their beryllium tweeter with corresponding crossover adjustment.

    2) A more inert cabinet resistant to vibration and resonance.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  35. #35
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Oh my Ken, I don't think I would touch that tweeter...ever.

    I would say I agree on the cabinet and a lot has changed cabinet technology wise since they first came out, so there is room for improvement there.

    I would like to see even greater adjustability for even better room integration, but what they have now is still darn good and a whole lot better than most.

    I would beg for greater efficiency, but that won't help sell 1000 watt Mark Levinson amps! LOL.

    They could get funky and try some rear firing super tweeter or something, but man, the way they sit now is darn good.

    In my room, the biggest issues were not enough bass (can you believe that?) and a recessed midrange. Other than that, I could play them loud and they never broke up and that tweeter sets the benchmark.


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    Last edited by MDP; November 23, 2015 at 09:08 AM.
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  36. #36
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    Re: Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    After giving it more thought, I would only make two changes for the Salon 3.

    1) A diamond coating on their beryllium tweeter with corresponding crossover adjustment.

    2) A more inert cabinet resistant to vibration and resonance.

    Ken
    I'd like to see what difference only a diamond coating makes to the Be tweeter. Push the breakup even further out of our hearing?

    As for #2, yes.


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Let's Help Revel Design their Ultima Salon 3 Loudspeakers

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