Are they going to destroy audio?

MichaelsMinute said:
I hope you are right. However it has already become enough of a concern that Luxman stopped making their 590 Class A integrateds and they openly stated its due to environmental regulations.
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Michael,

I've searched the internet for any news release concerning why the 590 Class A integrated amps are being discontinued, but I've come up empty. Could you direct me to the news release from Luxman declaring this?

Regards,

Michael
 
I think it takes about 40 years for an audio technology to get to a reasonable state of maturity. So Class D is about halfway there.

The complementary and quasi complementary class AB amplifier reached a state of maturity some 40 years after its introduction. There are some fine examples of the art today, but true innovation has essentially vanished and we are seeing incremental improvements in devices, materials, fit, and finish..

Class D still has along innovation horizon ahead of it.

The first Class D amplifier I worked on was the modulator for a 50kW broadcast transmitter, where efficiency represented dollars of profit for the broadcaster. Eliminating the modulation transformer was a huge improvement in performance.

Our friends in Hawaii may be the first to truly embrace Class D. Their average power cost is $0.44 per kWh and rising.
 
mresseguie said:
Michael,

I've searched the internet for any news release concerning why the 590 Class A integrated amps are being discontinued, but I've come up empty. Could you direct me to the news release from Luxman declaring this?

Regards,

Michael
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Hi Mike - Along with it being referenced in various reviews I've read, Mike @ Suncoast was told this himself by Luxman.
 
MichaelsMinute said:
I'm an 'early adopter' in the consumer life cycle. I love new technology - except when I don't like how it sounds or works. Aren't we well past the life cycle of class D being considered new technology? I think Mike mentioned its been out for like 20 years?

If anyone still thinks after reading all these posts that this is an anti-class D thread (especially people 'scared' of new stuff that is 20 years old technology) and not about the real issues that has been repeated multiple times, then they are choosing to ignore the obvious.
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I tried to put this gently in my prior posts, but apparently it didn't get through. Your idea that somehow there's a green movement to rid the world of class A biased amplifiers is so much poppycock. Seriously. Don't. Worry. About. It. Its just not a thing. If you think it is, please supply the information about where you found this out. And also please explain what will happen when your source is proven to be incorrect. Put another way, the 'greenies' aren't out to get you or audio :D
nc42acc said:
Great seeing you are creating your own circuitry for the Class D amps. Are you using SMPS or Linear PS? Sorry to deviate from topic.
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Our class D employs a module of our own design. Currently it uses a toroid power transformer. We used off the shelf SMPSs during prototyping but found they current limit too readily. So we are planning a SMPS that we design for this application; IME/IMO that is the only way you can make SMPSs work properly in a class D because of the current limiting thing.

Mr Peabody said:
How much are your Class D mono's? I didn't find it on your site. Looked like they are only 100 watts, is that right?

I really think you over estimate the importance and performance of Class D.
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Goto our site, hover over Products, click on 'class D'

The importance of class D is not in its greater efficiency although that is a nice benefit. IMO the real importance is the ability to use large amounts of feedback and wind up with a very stable amplifier design. One reason class A solid state amps don't work is they are unable to use enough feedback. This is because they are limited by frequency poles that create phase shift (limiting the phase margin of the amp and thus how much feedback can be used without oscillation problems) and/or they lack the Gain Bandwidth Product to support the feedback at higher frequencies (typically above 2-3KHz where you see distortion rising with frequency because the feedback is decreasing). Of course they can play the bass alright because there's enough feedback at those frequencies. Class D allows you to get around that limitation in a very elegant manner.

I should point out that in a traditional Class A amp the feedback is typically brought back to a point in the amp from the speakers to the feedback node- which is typically a transistor of a differential input pair. That transistor isn't linear and so the feedback is distorted before it can do its job. This causes the generation of higher ordered harmonics because of the feedback error. The ear interprets this as brightness and harshness. The class A operation is intended to improve linearity and it does, but misses the problem occurring at the input of the amp. So its hot and its harsh, although maybe not as harsh as some AB amps.

But make no mistake harshness and brightness is a coloration.
 
atmasphere said:
I tried to put this gently in my prior posts, but apparently it didn't get through. Your idea that somehow there's a green movement to rid the world of class A biased amplifiers is so much poppycock. Seriously. Don't. Worry. About. It. Its just not a thing. If you think it is, please supply the information about where you found this out. And also please explain what will happen when your source is proven to be incorrect. Put another way, the 'greenies' aren't out to get you or audio :D
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Wow - so you are calling Mike @ Suncoast and Luxman themselves liars based on what? Proven how? Cause you say so? LOL

Nicely done.

You've clearly taken this post in a direction to lecture us on how good your class D amp is that no-one here seems to have heard. Instead of trying to turn this thread into a sales pitch for yourself, try and stick to the original question that has been reposted several times yet you've chosen to ignore for your own personal business gains. :)

It appears you may be sitting on a large stock of unsold Class D amps you are trying to desperately unload. Why else would you keep tuning this thread into it being al about you and your amps?
 
MichaelsMinute said:
Wow - so you are calling Mike @ Suncoast and Luxman themselves liars based on what? Proven how? Cause you say so? LOL

Nicely done.

You've clearly taken this post in a direction to lecture us on how good your class D amp is that no-one here seems to have heard. Instead of trying to turn this thread into a sales pitch for yourself, try and stick to the original question that has been reposted several times yet you've chosen to ignore for your own personal business gains. :)

It appears you may be sitting on a large stock of unsold Class D amps you are trying to desperately unload. Why else would you keep tuning this thread into it being al about you and your amps?
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No- not calling you a liar- that is clearly not what I said. I am saying however that if you have a source for that, it is in error.

WRT the class D amps, again the technology is the elephant in the room, based on your first post to this thread. In our case (I can't speak for others) we can't make the amps fast enough. So if you want one, you'll have to wait; right now it appears that orders we take today will ship in January.
 
atmasphere said:
No- not calling you a liar- that is clearly not what I said. I am saying however that if you have a source for that, it is in error.

.
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In error how??? How are you calling them wrong? Based on what??

And I can see why not shipping until January with the parts shortage and all the long off-topic self marketing posts you've posted on this thread to divert from the real topic.
 
MichaelsMinute said:
In error how??? How are you calling them wrong? Based on what??
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We've been in business for over 49 years. As you can imagine, I know a lot of people in the industry including other amplifier manufacturers. If there were something out there even as a proposal, we would have heard about it one way or the other. Keep in mind that our amps for their power draw more energy from the wall than anyone else's, owing to a rather prodigious filament circuit to run all those power tubes. But on this topic other than this thread there is crickets. Someone somewhere would have mentioned something But no.

So this leads me to two possibilities: one is that you inquired out of concern. The other is you heard something from somewhere, from someone who might be overly paranoid. I don't know which. But your concern isn't founded and you can take some heart in that.
 
atmasphere said:
We've been in business for over 49 years. As you can imagine, I know a lot of people in the industry including other amplifier manufacturers. If there were something out there even as a proposal, we would have heard about it one way or the other. Keep in mind that our amps for their power draw more energy from the wall than anyone else's, owing to a rather prodigious filament circuit to run all those power tubes. But on this topic other than this thread there is crickets. Someone somewhere would have mentioned something But no.

So this leads me to two possibilities: one is that you inquired out of concern. The other is you heard something from somewhere, from someone who might be overly paranoid. I don't know which. But your concern isn't founded and you can take some heart in that.
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So you must have missed the post where I answered where I heard it from. Funny you keep ignoring that point.

And once again you've missed the point of the entire original post and sidetracked to an argument that is not a part of the post. There clearly is no amount of clarity that can get you on point to the original post and question. May want to get working on those back orders rather than continually purposely posting off topic here.
 
Think you might have your Class D amps at the Florida Audio Expo in February?

atmasphere said:
WRT the class D amps, again the technology is the elephant in the room, based on your first post to this thread. In our case (I can't speak for others) we can't make the amps fast enough. So if you want one, you'll have to wait; right now it appears that orders we take today will ship in January.
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nc42acc said:
Think you might have your Class D amps at the Florida Audio Expo in February?
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I think so. I might even be there this time too.
MichaelsMinute said:
So you must have missed the post where I answered where I heard it from. Funny you keep ignoring that point.

And once again you've missed the point of the entire original post and sidetracked to an argument that is not a part of the post. There clearly is no amount of clarity that can get you on point to the original post and question. May want to get working on those back orders rather than continually purposely posting off topic here.
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All I've been able to find were your comments about Luxman but they have nothing to that effect on their website- their latest news item is about a new class A amp... So I'm forced to conclude that either you're referring to someone else or you are correct and I missed a comment somewhere. Could you enlighten me?
 
atmasphere said:
All I've been able to find were your comments about Luxman but they have nothing to that effect on their website- their latest news item is a about a new class A amp. . So I'm forced to conclude that either you're referring to someone else or you are correct and I missed a comment somewhere. Could you enlighten me?
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I really think you need to focus on your back order and spend less time diverting this thread. I bet you could get those back orders built in time for Christmas if you spent all the time building you are spending here diverting. I'm still waiting for you to call out directly the person I mentioned.

I can't be any more clear than what I've already posted that you've chosen to ignore.
 
MichaelsMinute said:
So you must have missed the post where I answered where I heard it from. Funny you keep ignoring that point.
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Perhaps you could ask your source of this claim to post here to confirm what you say? Otherwise there seems to be no more authority behind your claim than your own somewhat suspect words. Most of these words seem to be a personal bitter rant about Class A and forces you claim are trying to destroy audio. What a load a b*****ks!
 
Hear Here said:
Perhaps you could ask your source of this claim to post here to confirm what you say? Otherwise there seems to be no more authority behind your claim than your own somewhat suspect words. Most of these words seem to be a personal bitter rant about Class A and forces you claim are trying to destroy audio. What a load a b*****ks!
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LOL. A personal bitter rant. LOL. I prefer tubes and class a/b over Class A, but I understand you enjoy stirring the pot just like you did on that other forum with them there. :)

I posted above about him. You are welcome to reach out to him if you don't believe me. But I bet you won't.

BTW, I am enjoying how much you two either won't/can't read the posts or have and refuse to acknowledge him. Funny since he responded to you and you ignored him.

ETA: You can keep trying with the personal attacks as that is only a reflection on you and not me. I really don't care and it surely doesn't make your intentional diverting any less entertaining.
 
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atmasphere said:
All I've been able to find were your comments about Luxman but they have nothing to that effect on their website- their latest news item is about a new class A amp.
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Just for clarification purposes, the latest news is actually very old news (18 months ago) and it’s about the 595 amp which was a limited production and is now completely sold out.

As for Class A, I sure hope we see Luxman making class A amps again! The 590 and 595 were sublime.

Looking forward to hearing your amps in February.

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