Are they going to destroy audio?

I said 'the best backpack blowers' and yes in your biz they are the blower of choice but for 'Joe homeowner' not at all, majority of home owners own hand held.

back to audio, I'd love to sit you down to a good DBT test on a top Class D amp vs one from the A/B camp, hell I'd like to participate in one myself !

Why is it when someone disagrees with the ASR crowd they always fall back on the false DBT argument? Like you have any idea what we have and haven't done, and then you assume everything we've experienced is false and you can fix it with a supposed DBT. LOL

Oh, and most gas backpack blowers beats the Ego battery and are less expensive to own for home owners so they don't need to spend crazy money on extra batteries.

I get it, your ears can't tell the difference between Class D and other amps. That's OK but don't force inferior sound on the rest of us and blame our different hearing on some supposed lack of DBT when you have no idea what we have or haven't done.
 
But Mike - do you actually stock any Class D gear? If you don't offer Class D (or didn't stock tube gear), I can fully understand that no one would be coming to you to ask for it. They'd go to someone who does stock these things.

That makes no sense. People don't know EVERY item he stocks so they are going to ASK him if he has it. Hence he would get asked if there was actually a demand for it (which there clearly isn't except for 3 or 4 people). It's not like he has a sign out front that says "No Class D gear so don't bother asking".
 
Good point, kinda like who goes into a Bugatti dealer looking for a used Corvette .............

The Ferrari dealership up the street from me, which has a big Ferrari sign out front, also sells used Porsches, Aston's, Mercedes, and yes ever Corvette's. Go figure.
 
Boy, this thread deteriorated faster than I thought! :popcorn:

It helps to keep an open mind. I recall participating in car forums where ANY vehicle mandate was seen as the end of civilization. That included safety belts, mileage per gallon requirements, chemical requirements for gas to control emissions, catalytic converters, you name it! Yet today we are able to drive the fastest, safest, and most environmentally-friendly vehicles ever manufactured. So... it is good to keep an open mind as technology is always changing.

Class D amplifiers are everywhere! Soon, I believe, more and more speaker manufacturers will be making active speakers with built-in Class D amp and a DAC. The benefits are many. The most obvious: one box instead of three!
 
Myles or Phil, maybe you could suggest brands of Class D you feel can compete with A/B. The closest I've heard was the current Bel Canto E1X, unfortunately the next step up wasn't available and the E1X didn't convince me to take a chance on the purchase without hearing one. I've also had Merrill Audio Veritas in my system, good amps but just didn't do it for me.

I'd love to hear the Class D amp that satisfies me but that hasn't happened yet. Those who claim Class D sounds better clearly listen to a different aspect of music than me. Something about Class D leaves it less convincing than A/B or A. I mean your system has to be engaging to you the listener, I've declined amps with better certain attributes but wasn't as engaging to me as what I was using. So Class D can be extremely transparent but lack it that something that engages me, it's still no good, transparency is just one of many aspects. Really, when it comes donw to it no matter the class of amp being compared the one you like most comes down to the one with less compromises.

I really don't think anyone will have audio gear on their radar for let's go green. Less of a concern than jet exhaust or cow farts. I'm no expert but I'd also bet there's items in your home that still use more electric than your power amp, using a realistic comparison.
 
I really don't think anyone will have audio gear on their radar for let's go green. Less of a concern than jet exhaust or cow farts. I'm no expert but I'd also bet there's items in your home that still use more electric than your power amp, using a realistic comparison.

I hope you are right. However it has already become enough of a concern that Luxman stopped making their 590 Class A integrateds and they openly stated its due to environmental regulations.
 
Why is it when someone disagrees with the ASR crowd they always fall back on the false DBT argument? Like you have any idea what we have and haven't done, and then you assume everything we've experienced is false and you can fix it with a supposed DBT. LOL

you are so full of yourself it's pathetic, go cut your grass !!

Oh, and most gas backpack blowers beats the Ego battery and are less expensive to own for home owners so they don't need to spend crazy money on extra batteries.

Put your crack pipe down kid ........

I get it, your ears can't tell the difference between Class D and other amps. That's OK but don't force inferior sound on the rest of us and blame our different hearing on some supposed lack of DBT when you have no idea what we have or haven't done.

spoken like a true audiofool , where did you get your engineering degree from ?
 
Class D amplifiers are everywhere! Soon, I believe, more and more speaker manufacturers will be making active speakers with built-in Class D amp and a DAC. The benefits are many. The most obvious: one box instead of three!

I think we are saying the same thing - if the market wants it and if they can get Class D sounding consistently to a point that can replace class a/b, class a and tubes, then great. However let market forces drive this and not false outside forces.
 
I think we are saying the same thing - if the market wants it and if they can get Class D sounding consistently to a point that can replace class a/b, class a and tubes, then great. However let market forces drive this and not false outside forces.
I am not sure that we are. I have no beef against Class D amplifiers.
 
We're not a big enough market for anyone to worry about the energy "wasted" on class A and tube gear. In the grand scheme of things, our amps' impact is not significant. So many things would have to go before us - e.g. the gals and their millions of hair-dryers, hair-irons, and space heaters (damn they love space heaters). Anyways, I'm sick of hearing products advertised as "sustainable" - it's not a "feature" I value or decide based on.

I'm not altogether against class D, but I'm happy with my tube amps and A/B SS amps here, so no real need desire to explore them. I get that class D may have "arrived" with the latest iterations but then they've been saying that for years (much like the digital vs analog debate).
 
We're not a big enough market for anyone to worry about the energy "wasted" on class A and tube gear. In the grand scheme of things, our amps' impact is not significant. So many things would have to go before us - e.g. the gals and their millions of hair-dryers, hair-irons, and space heaters (damn they love space heaters). Anyways, I'm sick of hearing products advertised as "sustainable" - it's not a "feature" I value or decide based on.

I'm not altogether against class D, but I'm happy with my tube amps and A/B SS amps here, so no real need desire to explore them. I get that class D may have "arrived" with the latest iterations but then they've been saying that for years (much like the digital vs analog debate).

I hope you're right. Someone should tell Luxman as they already have stopped making Class A integrateds and they squarely lay the blame on environmental regulations.
 
> Someone should tell Luxman as they already have stopped making Class A integrateds and they squarely lay the blame on environmental regulations.

Perhaps some (obviously including Luxman themselves) would substitute your word "blame" to "credit".
 
If there are any A/V equipment energy directives in the works, they'll probably come from the EU.
The EU eco design directive is already impacting consumer product development.

The EU has published energy requirements for set top boxes, home networking equipment, external power supplies, and televisions, among others. There is some concern that these regulations for TV's will limit the sale of 8K and some 4K sets in EU.

We have for many years had rules on standby and off power consumption for audio and AV gear among many other consumer appliances.

This has driven design changes in a lot of audio equipment. One example is non-use power off timers, which are now required in most if not all amplifier products sold in the EU.

None of the external linear power supplies popular with audiophiles meet the EU requirements today. Not one. Yet they are openly sold. More on this later. **

It would be easy for regulators to set power consumption limits on AV and audio amplifiers and receivers.
These power limits could be written in such a way as to eliminate the sale of all Class A and AB amplifiers using standard linear power supplies. At their tightest, they may allow only Class D amps driven by switchmode power supplies. This would be easy to do as the efficiencies of all these amplifiers are well known in the art.

This, in turn, would cause audiophile heads to spontaneously explode globally, reducing the market for linear class A amplifiers to zero. Problem solved. :)

** In order to get the attention of regulators, the market has to be big enough to make a dent in consumption. High end audio is a tiny market.
 
Hi Myles - you summed up my point perfectly. You hear them differently than I do. Thus the great thing about choice and choosing what you like and what sounds good to you, vs someone else forcing you what to buy based on arbitrary made up info.
FWIW that isn't what Myles said. He said 'I don’t agree they all sound sterile.' (emphasis added) You've clearly not heard all the class D amps that exist. Myles was stating what I stated, which is not all class D amps sound the same.

Some sound really dry and sterile, some sound liquid and musical. All that is happening here is that you've not heard the right one yet. Plain and simple.
 
I have been using a NAD digital amp for some time with impressive sound quality. I have ordered the new McIntosh M1502 digital amp I plan to use with a McIntosh D150 Pre/DAC and new PMC speakers. I expect the sound quality to be consistent with but much more convenient than a 800 pound gorilla amp.
 
All that is happening here is that you've not heard the right one yet. Plain and simple.


I see you've taken the Steve Jobs approach of "you're holding it the wrong way".

Why is the ASR crowd so insistent they know better than our own ears what we like and don't like and they know better than us? So what if we hear things differently.

And to state again, this is NOT about Class D vs the world but the ASR/Class D people have tried to make it into that.
 
I have been using a NAD digital amp for some time with impressive sound quality. I have ordered the new McIntosh M1502 digital amp I plan to use with a McIntosh D150 Pre/DAC and new PMC speakers. I expect the sound quality to be consistent with but much more convenient than a 800 pound gorilla amp.

And that is the great part of you as a consumer being able to CHOOSE what you want and like vs some knuckle head worried you're sucking too many imaginary made up "excessive" watts number.
 
I see you've taken the Steve Jobs approach of "you're holding it the wrong way" that made him the laughing stock of the world.

Why is the ASR crowd so insistent they know better than our own ears what we like and don't like and they know better than us? So what if we hear things differently.

And to state again, this is NOT about Class D vs the world but the ASR/Class D people have tried to make it into that.
Sadly you are living in Cloud Cuckoo Land and don't seem to want to even consider calmly and logically what others are saying. For a self-appointed online "expert" of audio you deserve to lose the few viewers you may have with your blinkered and bizarre opinions - but everyone is entitled to an opinion however misguided!

Who is the "ASR crowd" you mention? Why do you think that those with contrary views to your own (most of us here it seems) are members of this ASR crowd?

Keeping an ear reasonably close to the ground, I suspect you are referring to an obscure audio forum bearing those initials. Well, certainly I'm no fan of that rag and I doubt many here are. Members here seem to have their feet firmly on the ground and simply want to listen to music as well as it can be reproduced in the home. I get the impression that ASR members are more interested in creating graphs and pawing over measurement fact and figures that often have no realistic bearing on what the thing actually sounds like!

So please stop harping on about how dreadful Class D is and find something more constructive to occupy your time. That's all I have to say on the matter as I'm unhappy being harassed by trolls. Am I being unreasonable? Many thanks and goodbye.
 
Dude why do you keep bringing up Audio Science Review site on here? This is Audio Shark. We are here because we are different than ASR. Your constant crusade on this makes you sound just like the ASR crowd.


I see you've taken the Steve Jobs approach of "you're holding it the wrong way".

Why is the ASR crowd so insistent they know better than our own ears what we like and don't like and they know better than us? So what if we hear things differently.

And to state again, this is NOT about Class D vs the world but the ASR/Class D people have tried to make it into that.
 
Dude why do you keep bringing up Audio Science Review site on here? This is Audio Shark. We are here because we are different than ASR. Your constant crusade on this makes you sound just like the ASR crowd.

Hi Marty,

It's pretty simple - because they are acting just like them, and if you read the posts that kind of thinking is shared by some people here as well.

They don't care what WE hear or what WE like. They think they know better than us and proceed to lecture us how we can't possibly know what we like for ourselves. I mean, who thinks that way???

Look at some of these replies on this thread: they want to know where our engineering degree is from as if we need one to know what we like. Or they say if we DBT (an ASR thinking favorite) then we will see the error of our ways (as if they have any clue what we have and have not done). Or they say its our fault for not having heard the right class D amp, and if we do then we will be ok with them taking away our ability to choose what we like.

Then some of the replies on this thread openly admit they know better than us on what gear we should be allowed to own based on made up nonsense such as some imaginary made up "excessive watts" number? Or being told it will become anti-social to own a Class A amp (my favorite). Isn't that against everything this hobby is about - being TOLD what you will like and what you will be allowed to own? THAT is the issue I originally posted about.

But the Class D fanboys had to turn this into amp-class-warfare thread and couldn't simply respect some of us aren't fans of class D. I mean, the NERVE of us to have a differing opinion and wanting to save consumer choice! How dare we! LOL

There are a group of people that can't simply accept that others may have a differing opinion. I welcome anyone to buy any amp, or class of amp they like. It's that simple. I don't pretend to know what you will or won't like. Yet somehow wanting to be able to preserve that ability has upset a select few know-it-alls that can't respect other peoples likes. How very intolerant and anti-audio.
 
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