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  1. #1
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    Posting Prices Publicly

    The thread about the new MSB pricing and the removal from the website got me thinking, what is everyone’s opinion on posting high end audio pricing online? Should it be available easily online or do you understand the manufacturers argument that they can’t post pricing online here in the U.S. as it causes a riff in other parts of the world where it’s not a simple $1 USD = $1 X in another country?

    As a dealer, 80% of my calls are “what’s the price of....”. Yes, it’s an opportunity to engage with a new customer, but 99% of the time that call doesn’t go anywhere, chalking most calls ending up with “Champaign tastes on a beer budget.” I will digress with one of my funniest stories. So myself and two other founders of the Florida Audio Expo were in my truck on the way to lunch one Friday when I received a call. I put the call, originating from Louisiana on hands free. I answered the call and the voice said in a deep southern drawl, “I’m looking at this (said very slowly) V-P-I AVENGER Reference turntable. How much is that?” And before I could get in a word, I heard what was presumably the gentleman’s wife in the background yelling “tell him we want the good one!! Tell him we want the good one!!” I told the gentleman, the VPI Avenger Reference starts at $20,000, including tone arm, but without a cartridge.” The man responded with a loud, “woooooooo boy, $20,000 for a record player?” I said “Yes sir.” He said, “$20,000 just to play some old records?” I said, “sir, unless those records are in good condition, I would not suggest playing dirty old records on it.” After a long pause he says in a high pitched version of that southern drawl, “well, what kind of records would I play?” I said proudly, “new ones!” I of course stated to the man that if this was too expensive, we could discuss something more reasonable like the VPI Player or Scout. But let’s just say, he wasn’t looking to spend more than $200, let alone $2000 or $20,000. By the way, this was before VPI started to allow pricing to be posted online. Now they do, and oddly, we don’t get these calls anymore! (Thank you VPI).

    Just yesterday I had a man call who wanted to know the price of the Gryphon Mojo S speakers. He had proudly told me “one day I will be coming into some money and I’ve always dreamed of a Hi-Fi system.” Of course it would be best if he waited until that day, but he obviously was mentally spending it well before he had it. When I told him they retailed for $30,000, his reaction was (swallowing deeply) “wow, they’re right, this high end audio stuff is expensive.” The sale went no where as he was thinking $2000 is what they would cost.

    Suffice it to say, these calls are all too common and as a dealer, when prices are public (thank you Shunyata, AudioQuest, Aurender, Lumin, VPI, etc.), the customer who comes to us already knows the price and is ready to talk about options, different choices for their room, etc.

    But I can also understand the manufacturers perspective as they have to deal with the customer in the UK who says, “$21,600 USD in Pounds is $16,150, so why do they retail for $25,000 pounds?” There is obviously a lot more involved in terms of shipping, duties, a distributor to handle all these things, etc. The same could be said when we look at the price of Accuphase in Japan. Everyone screams bloody murder without knowing that Accuphase purposely sets their domestic prices super low, but the rest of the world has much higher expenses. Ditto for many other brands, including Avantgarde. There are a few brands - like Gryphon - which can manage to have all worldwide prices about the same. So therein lies the rub (and confusion). That’s just the way some manufacturers choose to do things while others have a different approach. They have to manage that end of the business as best they see fit.

    Personally, I’m all for posting prices publicly. I can’t imagine needing to buy a new vehicle (especially with all the options) and having to call the dealer to get pricing. I know one thing, I would probably be eyeing the Porsche with a Ford budget in mind.
    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Berkeley Audio Design, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Franco Serblin Loudspeakers, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Koetsu Cartridges, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, Vivid Audio Loudspeakers, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  2. #2
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    I think most consumers are smart enough to accept that transportation, duties, and taxes can result in different prices in different parts of the world. Minor differences are to be expected. What upsets people most is regional distributors who opportunistically set prices that are way out of line with the rest of the world, e.g. Accuphase in the US.

    This is a problem the manufacturers have created (or allowed) and the manufacturers should have to live with the consequences. The dealers shouldn't have to spend time simply reading numbers from a spreadsheet to a curious caller.

    I'm all in favor of just posting the prices and saving the dealer network a lot of wasted time. Luxury car brands like M-B, Porsche, and Lexus post prices online and it doesn't seem to have negatively affected that industry.
    Gary
    Main: Lumin A1, Accuphase E-650, Tannoy Canterbury GR, Shunyata, Audience
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  3. #3
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    When I see new audio equipment I might like the first thing I do is look for the price. It is a nuisance when manufacturers do not post prices but they are not "super secret". Most reviews and many show reports (online and print) include prices. So why not just put them on the website and be less circumspect?

  4. #4
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    I am for listing MSRP for just the reason you described. It helps to know what gear might actually be in my reach.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzie View Post
    When I see new audio equipment I might like the first thing I do is look for the price. It is a nuisance when manufacturers do not post prices but they are not "super secret". Most reviews and many show reports (online and print) include prices. So why not just put them on the website and be less circumspect?
    Another issue that I have noticed is that many times the prices quoted in reviews are incorrect, especially the best of this best ratings.
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  6. #6
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    I have been for posting prices for a long time. It makes it better for someone in the initial stages of researching and narrowing down items. I cannot even imagine what it is like now for dealers and the number of calls just to price check. Especially now when going to the local stereo store is no longer an option (most places don't even have a local store). I remember back in the day sometimes customers would even get PO'd when they heard some of the prices. I imagine it is a ton worse now.
    Hattor AMRG Trans, Tube Active Stage | McIntosh MC7100 v2, MP100 | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | AT VM740ML | T+A DAC 8 DSD | Moon by SimAudio NEO 430HA | Abyss Diana Phi's | Astell&Kern SE-200 | Magnepan .7's w/Magna Risers | Rythmik L12 (x2) | B&W MM1's | Oppo BDP-105 | Magnum Dynalab FT-101A, ST-2

  7. #7
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    So, most manufacturers have a pdf price list with MSRP. Why not make them available to download by region? I have always hated how the manufacturers act like the pricing of their products is classified. It annoyed me 13+ years ago when I sold hifi and still does today. I also hate the expression, if you have to ask you can't afford it. That's total bs the majority of people have a budget regardless of wealth.

  8. #8

    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Manufacturers should post prices, period. It is very annoying to have to call a dealer for pricing when the manufacturer has a website that can communicate that. How does not publishing the prices benefit the customer or dealer?

    If they are concerned about inquiries concerning price discrepancies between countries, post a conspicuous message on their websites to address that issue. I have zero sympathy for manufacturers when it comes to this issue.
    Anthony
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  9. #9

    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    When we go to Porsche, BMW site we can see the price. Same goes for million dollar real estate. High end audio is making big deal about posting MSRP on their website. Sooner or later people going to find out the real price and then will make decision to buy it or not. The whole idea of customers calling dealers and it will turn it into sales is so old. Posting price on website will save a lot headache for both dealers and customers.

  10. #10
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Anyone who has sold used audio equipment has experienced a little of what a dealer has to deal with multiple times a day. My recent experience is about a pair of KEF LS50s I am selling locally (craigslist). I get an email asking about their condition. I verify they are perfect like the posted advertisement. I never heard back from that person. No price discussion. No why are you selling. No follow up. Makes no sense to me.

  11. #11
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzie View Post
    Anyone who has sold used audio equipment has experienced a little of what a dealer has to deal with multiple times a day. My recent experience is about a pair of KEF LS50s I am selling locally (craigslist). I get an email asking about their condition. I verify they are perfect like the posted advertisement. I never heard back from that person. No price discussion. No why are you selling. No follow up. Makes no sense to me.
    I could start another thread on this topic!


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    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Berkeley Audio Design, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Franco Serblin Loudspeakers, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Koetsu Cartridges, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, Vivid Audio Loudspeakers, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  12. #12
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzie View Post
    Anyone who has sold used audio equipment has experienced a little of what a dealer has to deal with multiple times a day. My recent experience is about a pair of KEF LS50s I am selling locally (craigslist). I get an email asking about their condition. I verify they are perfect like the posted advertisement. I never heard back from that person. No price discussion. No why are you selling. No follow up. Makes no sense to me.
    welcome to sales! Ive been at it most of life. Its annoying when they don't reply but as a seller its incumbent upon the offeror to pursue the buyer. your next email should qualify them by asking if this is what they are looking for to flush out time-wasters. I moved three audio pieces last month just from follow up emails I sent 'tire kickers' turns out they were still interested but got busy. once i had their attention we agreed on terms and they got sold.
    "Listening to Analogue music is an act of rebellion in a digital gulag" - Simon Yorke

  13. #13
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Dealers don’t want prices posted because then they can’t crank up the price over MSRP. Cartridges are the bulk of this problem from what I see. How can Japanese made cartridges be $X in Europe and then $X + THOUSANDS in the USA? Especially when we all know the Europe import taxes are far more than the USA. Same goes for certain Japanese electronics and no I’m not talking about Accuphase.

  14. #14
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by matt_zak View Post
    So, most manufacturers have a pdf price list with MSRP. Why not make them available to download by region? I have always hated how the manufacturers act like the pricing of their products is classified. It annoyed me 13+ years ago when I sold hifi and still does today. I also hate the expression, if you have to ask you can't afford it. That's total bs the majority of people have a budget regardless of wealth.
    Some luxury goods websites will post a link to a PDF retail price sheet. It classier than posting list prices in product descriptions and gives the consumer a complete price list at a glance. One company i shop with will send the retail price link to those that subscribe to their website for announcements. its discrete and gets to their core customer all the same.
    "Listening to Analogue music is an act of rebellion in a digital gulag" - Simon Yorke

  15. #15
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by vortrex View Post
    Dealers don’t want prices posted because then they can’t crank up the price over MSRP. Cartridges are the bulk of this problem from what I see. How can Japanese made cartridges be $X in Europe and then $X + THOUSANDS in the USA? Especially when we all know the Europe import taxes are far more than the USA. Same goes for certain Japanese electronics and no I’m not talking about Accuphase.
    Are you serious? That’s total BS. Dealers WANT prices posted online. Maybe your local dealer does that, but no one I know does.


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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Berkeley Audio Design, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Franco Serblin Loudspeakers, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Koetsu Cartridges, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, Vivid Audio Loudspeakers, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  16. #16
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Are you serious? That’s total BS. Dealers WANT prices posted online. Maybe your local dealer does that, but no one I know does.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    I don’t use any local dealers. I buy everything online. Example, I bought a Japanese cartridge from a European dealer for $2200 USD. That is the MSRP there. In the US I see a dealer selling it for 38% more than the price I bought it at. There is one US dealer selling a very high end Japanese cartridge for $8k OVER the rest of world MSRP. He even got angry at everyone for calling him out on it!

  17. #17
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    Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by vortrex View Post
    I don’t use any local dealers. I buy everything online. Example, I bought a Japanese cartridge from a European dealer for $2200 USD. That is the MSRP there. In the US I see a dealer selling it for 38% more than the price I bought it at. There is one US dealer selling a very high end Japanese cartridge for $8k OVER the rest of world MSRP. He even got angry at everyone for calling him out on it!
    That’s very different. You are talking about the same product being sold in different countries. The local importer can set the price, so just because it’s 38% cheaper in Europe doesn’t mean anything. The US importer has import expenses, advertising costs, overhead and also, has to price it allow for currency fluctuations, otherwise we will have what we had with Chord here under their previous distributor: seemingly weekly price changes due to currency fluctuations.


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    My Systems: http://www.audioshark.org/showthread...481#post158481

    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Berkeley Audio Design, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Franco Serblin Loudspeakers, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Koetsu Cartridges, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, Vivid Audio Loudspeakers, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

    https://suncoastaudio.com/
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  18. #18
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    That’s very different. You are talking about the same product being sold in different countries. The local importer can set the price, so just because it’s 38% cheaper in Europe doesn’t mean anything. The US importer has import expenses, advertising costs, overhead and also, has to price it allow for currency fluctuations, otherwise we will have what we had with Chord here under their previous distributor: seemingly weekly price changes due to currency fluctuations.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    That excuse doesn’t fly. A European dealer has the same costs for a cartridge made in Japan, except more actually.

  19. #19
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Also, can’t tell you how many dealers I’ve emailed asking for pricing and they won’t put it in email. They say you have to call for pricing. Why? Because they don’t want written record of what they’re telling you. It’s all a game.

  20. #20

    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by vortrex View Post
    Also, can’t tell you how many dealers I’ve emailed asking for pricing and they won’t put it in email. They say you have to call for pricing. Why? Because they don’t want written record of what they’re telling you. It’s all a game.
    Maybe the dealer(s) didn’t want to waste their time sending you a price sheet if they suspect you are a tire kicker and want to talk to you on the phone first to determine if you are a real potential customer.
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  21. #21
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by vortrex View Post
    I don’t use any local dealers. I buy everything online. Example, I bought a Japanese cartridge from a European dealer for $2200 USD. That is the MSRP there. In the US I see a dealer selling it for 38% more than the price I bought it at. There is one US dealer selling a very high end Japanese cartridge for $8k OVER the rest of world MSRP. He even got angry at everyone for calling him out on it!
    Suggested list prices are just that, what the manufacturer or dist suggests and is the published price. I agree there is a growing trend or reluctance to publish prices. t gets back to scarcity or very limited items that may sell out it quickly where dealers sell at a premium. This is quite common in the luxury automobile biz, high-end watches, fine wines/spirits, etc.

    The dealer selling a cart 8k over list (?) is adding a premium because of scarcity, its their business to do so whether you like it or not.
    "Listening to Analogue music is an act of rebellion in a digital gulag" - Simon Yorke

  22. #22
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Maybe the dealer(s) didn’t want to waste their time sending you a price sheet if they suspect you are a tire kicker and want to talk to you on the phone first to determine if you are a real potential customer.
    Didn’t ever ask for a “price sheet”. They don’t want to put prices in email. This is common. Has nothing to do with who is sending the email.

  23. #23
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by puroagave View Post
    Suggested list prices are just that, what the manufacturer or dist suggests and is the published price. I agree there is a growing trend or reluctance to publish prices. t gets back to scarcity or very limited items that may sell out it quickly where dealers sell at a premium. This is quite common in the luxury automobile biz, high-end watches, fine wines/spirits, etc.

    The dealer selling a cart 8k over list (?) is adding a premium because of scarcity, its their business to do so whether you like it or not.
    That’s questionable. Does the manufacturer want the dealer making more money than them? All the dealer does is send an email to Japan to order one.

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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by vortrex View Post
    That’s questionable. Does the manufacturer want the dealer making more money than them? All the dealer does is send an email to Japan to order one.
    Seriously you think that is all a dealer does?

  25. #25
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by vortrex View Post
    That’s questionable. Does the manufacturer want the dealer making more money than them? All the dealer does is send an email to Japan to order one.
    Some but not many manufacturers put a cap on pricing which is unenforceable and may breach antitrust laws (price fixing). You are looking at this simplistically as a black/white issue when a much broader gray area exist between manufacturer and distributor.
    "Listening to Analogue music is an act of rebellion in a digital gulag" - Simon Yorke

  26. #26
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzie View Post
    Seriously you think that is all a dealer does?
    I bought an $1800 cartridge a few weeks ago from a dealer. No questions, no comments, price agreed upon, PayPal sent. A couple emails and 15 minutes spent that ended with “I’ll send an email to Japan and let you know when it ships”. Not saying anything bad about the dealer. Don’t know a thing about them. Never talked to them. Tell me, what else are they doing or what else can they even do? Fly to me and install it?

  27. #27
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by puroagave View Post
    Some but not many manufacturers put a cap on pricing which is unenforceable and may breach antitrust laws (price fixing). You are looking at this simplistically as a black/white issue when a much broader gray area exist between manufacturer and distributor.
    I’m not saying it’s black, white, or grey. It’s a known issue that actually happened and has been beaten to death on another forum. This dealer has missed out on selling 3-4 of these due to other dealer(s) having better pricing.

    But I agree, charge a million dollars for it if you want. If the consumer falls for it then good for you. You can’t complain though when people figure it out and buy from the cheapest source.

  28. #28
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by vortrex View Post
    I bought an $1800 cartridge a few weeks ago from a dealer. No questions, no comments, price agreed upon, PayPal sent. A couple emails and 15 minutes spent that ended with “I’ll send an email to Japan and let you know when it ships”. Not saying anything bad about the dealer. Don’t know a thing about them. Never talked to them. Tell me, what else are they doing or what else can they even do? Fly to me and install it?
    This dealer is not in the U.S.?


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  29. #29
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    This dealer is not in the U.S.?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    This dealer is in the USA.

  30. #30
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by vortrex View Post
    This dealer is in the USA.
    Well, back to our regular scheduled programming...posting MSRP prices online.


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  31. #31
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Well, back to our regular scheduled programming...posting MSRP prices online.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Ok, so why do you avoid posting prices online? I’m looking at some of your brands that say you have to call for a price because the manufacturer doesn’t permit it. Yet I see other dealers with this pricing clearly posted online for the same items.

  32. #32
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    Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by vortrex View Post
    Ok, so why do you avoid posting prices online? I’m looking at some of your brands that say you have to call for a price because the manufacturer doesn’t permit it. Yet I see other dealers with this pricing clearly posted online for the same items.
    Such as? We follow the guidelines in our dealer agreement. If posting prices online is allowed, we do. If not, we don’t. Keep in mind, that there are different dealer agreements. For example, online only dealer agreements Vs brick and mortar dealer agreements. Some dealers choose to just post prices anyway and prefer the “ask for forgiveness rather than permission” approach. I know of two that routinely take this approach. Manufacturers don’t have time to monitor every dealers website everyday and so, they get away with it. However, we prefer to respect the manufacturers wishes with respect to posting prices online.


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  33. #33
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by vortrex View Post
    I bought an $1800 cartridge a few weeks ago from a dealer. No questions, no comments, price agreed upon, PayPal sent. A couple emails and 15 minutes spent that ended with “I’ll send an email to Japan and let you know when it ships”. Not saying anything bad about the dealer. Don’t know a thing about them. Never talked to them. Tell me, what else are they doing or what else can they even do? Fly to me and install it?
    You missed the point of my other response. Perhaps it was to subtle. Lunch is not free. Even when a dealer provides minimal or no support they have expenses. Rent, utilities, insurance, payroll, and inventory/display. Most serious manufacturers are going to require a physical presence from their dealers. That is not the case 100% of the time but that would be mostly for lower budget equipment.

  34. #34
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Such as? We follow the guidelines in our dealer agreement. If posting prices online is allowed, we do. If not, we don’t. Keep in mind, that there are different dealer agreements. For example, online only dealer agreements Vs brick and mortar dealer agreements. Some dealers choose to just post prices anyway and prefer the “ask for forgiveness rather than permission” approach. I know of two that routinely take this approach. Manufacturers don’t have time to monitor every dealers website everyday and so, they get away with it. However, we prefer to respect the manufacturers wishes with respect to posting prices online.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Turntable category. No prices for Avid or VPI or Kuzma but these brands all have clear pricing on sites like Music Direct and Acoustic Sounds.

  35. #35
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    Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by vortrex View Post
    Turntable category. No prices for Avid or VPI or Kuzma but these brands all have clear pricing on sites like Music Direct and Acoustic Sounds.
    Again, see above. Both those are ecommerce online dealers operating under different parameters. Pretty hard to be a ecommerce dealer without posting prices. They also have different buying requirements, goals, targets, etc.


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  36. #36
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Again, see above. Both those are ecommerce online dealers operating under different parameters. Pretty hard to be a ecommerce dealer without posting prices. They also have different buying requirements, goals, targets, etc.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Aren’t you an online dealer too? I would imagine a large percentage of your sales are outside your local area.

  37. #37
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    Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by vortrex View Post
    Aren’t you an online dealer too? I would imagine a large percentage of your sales are outside your local area.
    I have a brick and mortar store, but we are authorized to sell online for some products and for those we list prices. Those others are online only and as I’ve mentioned, have different operating procedures. There is some overlap between strict online dealers and B&M dealers. But you will note the products offered is often quite different. A strict ecommerce only won’t be selling Magico, Wilson and MBL. A B&M with an online website can.


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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Berkeley Audio Design, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Franco Serblin Loudspeakers, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Koetsu Cartridges, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, Vivid Audio Loudspeakers, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  38. #38
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    How does not being able to see a price on site A vs site B benefit anyone? If the manufacturer is mandating this how does it benefit them? Especially when those with the prices listed are larger retailers that are easy to search and find. We’ve had the internet for 25 years now, there’s no hiding. I can understand not posting prices for esoteric $100k+ speakers, but you can’t for big box grade VPI turntables?

  39. #39
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by vortrex View Post
    How does not being able to see a price on site A vs site B benefit anyone? If the manufacturer is mandating this how does it benefit them? Especially when those with the prices listed are larger retailers that are easy to search and find. We’ve had the internet for 25 years now, there’s no hiding. I can understand not posting prices for esoteric $100k+ speakers, but you can’t for big box grade VPI turntables?
    Yup. The belief is that that $50k VPI turntable is in a luxury category and ecommerce will cheapen it. But I agree, all prices should be posted.


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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

    Dealer for: Aqua Hi-Fi, Aurender, AudioQuest Cables & Power Products, Avantgarde Acoustics, Avid HiFi, Berkeley Audio Design, Boulder Amplifiers, Bowers & Wilkins (B&W), Bryston, Chord, Classe’ Audio, Degritter Record Cleaning Machines, Esoteric, FirstWatt, Focal Headphones, Franco Serblin Loudspeakers, Furutech, Fyne Audio Loudspeakers, GigaFoil, Harbeth Loudspeakers, Hegel, HiFi Man, ISO Acoustics, Keces Power Supplies, Kharma Loudspeakers and Electronics, Koetsu Cartridges, Kuzma Turntables, Lumin, Luxman, Magico Loudspeakers, MBL Speakers & Electronics, MSB Technologies, MySonicLabs Phono Cartridges, Naim Audio, Ortofon, Pass Labs, Quadraspire, Rega Turntables and Electronics, Shunyata Research, SimAudio, Stein Music Products, Stillpoints, VAC, Vicoustics, Viva Audio, Vivid Audio Loudspeakers, VPI Industries, WireWorld Cables.

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  40. #40
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Ok, I guess I don’t understand how Music Direct can post the prices and it doesn’t cheapen the brand but if Suncoast does it cheapens the brand.

  41. #41
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by vortrex View Post
    Ok, I guess I don’t understand how Music Direct can post the prices and it doesn’t cheapen the brand but if Suncoast does it cheapens the brand.
    MD does not have any of the top VPI Reference tables listed - such as the Titan or Vanquish. Also, their dealer agreement allows them to list and sell up to the Avenger Reference online. Again, as I’ve tried to explain, different agreements for different retail models. Also, they also have much different targets and sales objectives.

    Although we would love to see all prices listed, we must respect the wishes and agreements of the manufacturer, even if it is a bit confusing.


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  42. #42

    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Good thread and excellent to see SC a recognised dealer endorsing Pricing with products visible--even if hamstrung by supplier codes/etc on some products -but kudos there anyway.

    The fact that the online juggernaut is reeling its mighty head against the B+M setup is now serious fact of the changing times in Hi Fi retail hopefully both can survive!

    Irritating fact appearing in Audiogon Postings lately I notice--"Contact for Price"--!!

    Bruce

  43. #43
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    As a consumer - I wish that prices were easily available on line.

    I think the BS line of different countries charge different MSRP is bunk. Every type of product has this variation. When it is a big difference - people buy on-line in another country. No service but you take the risk if it's cheap enough.
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  44. #44

    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    The consumer in any category at any price point wants and deserves price transparency. Refusal to post MSRP may engender the feeling that the manufacturer or retailer may perhaps be trying to hide something and may be interested in entering into different pricing arrangements with different consumers. Posting price will generate more good will between the retailer and client and ultimately increase the likelihood of a sale.

  45. #45
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    Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce View Post
    Good thread and excellent to see SC a recognised dealer endorsing Pricing with products visible--even if hamstrung by supplier codes/etc on some products -but kudos there anyway.

    The fact that the online juggernaut is reeling its mighty head against the B+M setup is now serious fact of the changing times in Hi Fi retail hopefully both can survive!

    Irritating fact appearing in Audiogon Postings lately I notice--"Contact for Price"--!!

    Bruce
    Contact for pricing (only available to dealers) has been a saving grace! As a dealer, we have to be able to sell used gear which we take on trade (which we also sell new). Contact for price eliminates the concern of the manufacturer PUBLICLY selling a used piece for a much lower price. For example, let’s say I take a Chord DAVE on trade, it’s used ok, but we couldn’t have previously listed it for $7k without upsetting the distributor. Yes, we all know that new and used are different, but the consumer looks at that $7k and thinks “ah ha! That’s the new MSRP!! I should be able to get a new one for that, right?” Wrong. Do you know how many times I get a call and they say “but why won’t you sell me a new Chord DAVE for $7k? I saw one used for that price.” Well, that was used and who knows in what condition and what warranty?


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  46. #46

    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    I would seriously question the intelligence and genuine intent to buy of a purchaser who asserts the price of a brand new piece of equipment should be the same as a used one.

  47. #47
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Quote Originally Posted by RDSChicago View Post
    I would seriously question the intelligence and genuine intent to buy of a purchaser who asserts the price of a brand new piece of equipment should be the same as a used one.
    Oh man, it happens all the time. Chalk it up to the audiogon crowd. Imagine if we used the same logic for cars? LOL.


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  48. #48

    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    I see zero downside to posting prices online and would love for that to be the norm. Some dealers are wonderful to deal with (Mike) but others not so much and having prices online sets some guardrails for these others! Unfortunately as some of the local markets shrink it seems like some of the smaller local dealers focus on profit margin rather than creating a customer for life.

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  49. #49
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    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    Not having local prices can actually harm the manufacturer, as then people go googling and see overseas pricing and say WTF. They might do that regardless, however the retail price advertised in local country will give the consumer a starting point.
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  50. #50

    Re: Posting Prices Publicly

    FWIW, I am in favor of posting prices online, and I know manufacturers can do a lot to control overseas pricing as well, but most don't. I see no reasonable excuse as to why they would want to keep pricing secret in the age of the internet, and moreover, like FM Acoustics and some others, they may simply keep the pricing the same all around if they chose to. At the end of the day, it will save a lot of dealers a lot of headache, and we can always find prices anywhere around the world; not to mention magazines publish the local prices. Seems silly to hide behind one's little finger.
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