Posting Prices Publicly

See the post above. And I own products from all three companies. Why are people posting this alternative reality? I think we've all had enough of that, don't ya think. :disbelief:

The pricing isn't public on their website. Look at REL's website. It shows MSRP. Most brands do not. I shouldn't have to read a review to find MSRP.

Mcintosh always does a nice press release when they put out a new product but the price is top secret. It's annoying more than anything that in this day and age pricing isn't easy to find for a lot of brands.
 
"Alternative facts" anyone. :disbelief: What a product is worth to an individual is another story.

Alternative facts? Really, so you are saying these companies publish their price sheets? The only prices available are those products they allow the online retailers to sell (which is a very small segment of their offerings). Try finding a full price sheet for any of these. Go ahead I am waiting....

And just by using the phrase "Alternative Facts" you have lost most all credibility. There are facts and there are lies, there is no such thing as Alternative Facts, unless you are... (you know not worth getting into).
 
Alternative facts? Really, so you are saying these companies publish their price sheets? The only prices available are those products they allow the online retailers to sell (which is a very small segment of their offerings). Try finding a full price sheet for any of these. Go ahead I am waiting....

And just by using the phrase "Alternative Facts" you have lost most all credibility. There are facts and there are lies, there is no such thing as Alternative Facts, unless you are... (you know not worth getting into).

I love how Shunyata does things. They give you MSRP for standard length, but if you want some odd custom configuration like 2.25m, you best call the dealer. For them to configure pricing for every possible combination would be a full time job! But giving standard length pricing gets everyone in the right lane for their budget.

To be honest, I think their approach to posting prices has HELPED their business! But then again, Caelin is very tuned in to what’s going on in the market, so I’m not surprised.
 
Very good point. Accuphase is probably a household name in Japan. No advertising necessary. In the USA its not so. It's quality is very buried in the noise of so many other choices.
And every darn customer is so self absorbed. Me me me. I get annoyed when friends ask me to make introductions to a dealer under the premises they can get a discount. As in at dealer cost. And some of the stuff is maybe list $700. I have to tell friends they should quit collecting a check from their boss. Why should they get paid for the work they do. It takes a moment to seep in. And when it does they are still irritated I am refusing to get them a deal.
 
In my view it is absolutely ok to ask for a better price, but it is not ok to push it to a point of being obnoxious. It is also not ok to expect a dealer to not make money. After all they have expenses and they are actually in business to make money (hard concept for some people to understand). Getting irritated that you are not willing to go to bat for them to get a better price is over the top. They can establish a relationship with the dealer themselves if they want a discount for being a consistent customer.
 
Very good point. Accuphase is probably a household name in Japan. No advertising necessary. In the USA its not so. It's quality is very buried in the noise of so many other choices.
And every darn customer is so self absorbed. Me me me. I get annoyed when friends ask me to make introductions to a dealer under the premises they can get a discount. As in at dealer cost. And some of the stuff is maybe list $700. I have to tell friends they should quit collecting a check from their boss. Why should they get paid for the work they do. It takes a moment to seep in. And when it does they are still irritated I am refusing to get them a deal.

time to start looking for new friends ....... :snicker:
 
Prices should be listed by manufactures. Dealers don’t always have the authority to list prices. So, I blame not listing them on the manufacturer. IMO, manufacturers should demand this dealers also list the MSRP. I consider that a matter of integrity.

I don’t like bothering Mike by merely kicking the proverbial tires on a piece of equipment. I ask a lot of questions about price. Just did this yesterday on EMM! Mike is always very gracious and very responsive in giving me the info desired. But Mike’s time could be better spent. How nice it would be if dealers had more time to sell the manufacturer’s products instead of just answering the phone for someone who says, “How much is so and so?” IMO, manufactures are causing a loss of sales by not listing MSRP.

And it is perfectly legit to ask for a discount. I just purchased a new car last week. I didn’t pay MSRP. Does anyone? The MSRP is merely a beginning point for negotiation IMO. If I can get a better deal on the same item elsewhere I can go there. And I’ve done that on occasion.

However, there’s a lot to be said for establishing a relationship with a dealer. Once a trusting relationship is established I don’t feel I need to shop around. With what I’ve seen in my previous employment, it takes me a long while to trust anyone. But once I do it makes shopping for anything much more pleasurable and rewarding.
 
Try finding a full price sheet for any of these. Go ahead I am waiting.... just by using the phrase "Alternative Facts" you have lost most all credibility.

One example. Goto Reno Hifi and you can find all MSRP prices for any piece of Pass Labs gear. It may not be a "full" price list on one piece of paper (if that's what you mean) but the info is clearly available on line. See the link below. Also, every review that I've ever read on an audio product does provide MSRP info. Are you done waiting now? DUH!

I don't know why you are being so insulting and demeaning. I've merely stated my facts as I understand them and have said nothing to you to justify your negative attitude towards me. You seem to think other wise. No-one else on this forum has reacted to my posts the way you have. Oh well. Go find some else to kick.

I'm done responding to your nonsense and will take your comment regarding my loss of credibility as a compliment. Bye Mr. Myers

Reno Hi-Fi. Goto "in stock / new - demo" on the website home page.
 
That unfortunately is a scam. I worked for a while for a large internet preowned watch company that was purchased by a large AD. THat large AD was AD for over 50 brands including Rolex, Patek. AP etc.
Number one- THERE ARE NO LISTS
Number Two- There are no lists
That is dealer BS for screw you I am not giving you one unless you buy all kinds of other expensive items from us.
I had clients that could get any watch Rolex made, in a reasonable time, and get Patek watches as well . ( Patek makes far fewer watches than Rolex and some watches are truly unobtainable by most dealers and clients) however the list for most is just an excuse to get rid the client.
Look at how many of these watches are no available "second hand at prices well over retail"
A Rolex SS sky dweller is around 14500 new and it sells for over 20k "used" with no issues getting one "used" , same for Daytona's, Batman's, Subs etc.
This is nothing like audio however audio is very backward in its marketing, distribution, dealer agreements etc. The main reason audio tries to assign territories is because manufacturers make money selling product to dealers. They are their customer's not the end users

My Rolex/PP dealer gets 10 calls a week about the same 10 watches. It's really just an "investment" mania - I truly want to know how many sales prints of $65k Nautilus there really are - I've heard its just dealers going back and forth and not customer based.
 
First of all i´m just an ordinary audiophile, nothing more.
But to me, if prices are listed or not, is the same. Why? Because,

- anyone can now easily check out and know the price of a particular piece of equipment
- especially when you are really interested. :scholar:
- in my opinion this noise all around the prices is more for the satisfaction of personal curiosity (it happens to me) and not so much the result of frustration in serious moments of purchase. I do not let this curiosity be enough for me to make a dealer wasting time, asking just for asking, nor for me to think I have the right to demand that prices are available, as I said, just to satisfy my curiosity.
- high end audio is a very special medium. In addition to the detractors of the medium itself, it is very easy to have many others “from outside”. Everyone (or almost) likes music and it is very easy to walk the net listening to music and find strange equipment and prices and start hitting the product, the brand, etc. It is easy to see this in the comments to videos on the you tube of high end systems where many of those who comment are clearly not in the middle and, of course, cannot understand the prices involved (*).
- because I'm one of those who don't buy without listening (except acessories of affordable prices), I don't understand this question. It is a little incomprehensible to me to buy audio gear without listening. Whoever wants to buy goes to stores and tries to listen before buying (**) and then you will always know the price. :popcorn:

(*) I am not saying that those in the middle understand. For example, I don't understand certain prices, :( but that's another conversation!

(**) Gone are the days when the dealers lent equipment for people to hear at home! I remember when I bought my Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home. At the time I was in love (at the store) but they were too expensive for my bag. Realizing how surrendered I was, the shop owner, without asking for anything, went to an employee and told him to put a pair in my car trunk for me to listen to at my house. :Bow:A week later I returned to the store. Head lost with money in hand. Today I know that the store does not let anyone take equipment home to test. Because? Because there are many who, when they don't like it, don't hesitate to use social networks and forums to get down. And little by little, brands and dealers are protecting themselves. I, in place of both, would eventually do the same.
 
In my view, pricing has two components.

1) Recoup costs for development phase.

2) Price the product based on similar from other manufacturers and / or price what you think the market will bear regardless of the competition.

Only the customer can decide if the final purchase price (whatever that may be) is justifiable based on personal biases, manufacturer reputation, affordability, and other misc. factors.
 
Just do your research. They are available in the individual product reviews. I know the Pulsar Graphene is $9K. I never said that all manufacturer websites post MSRP on their product lines. In fact, they usually don't. And I'm not going to waste my time on you either. Any more hostile comments from anyone?
 
Just do your research. They are available in the individual product reviews. I know the Pulsar Graphene is $9K. I never said that all manufacturer websites post MSRP on their product lines. And I'm not going to waste my time on you either. Any more hostile comments from anyone?

The whole point of this thread is that MFGs do not post prices and that you have to spend a bunch of time trying to find a price only to have wasted your time when you find out you can't afford it. Maybe you missed that part of the thread?
 
No, I didn't. Some do, some don't as stated in the initial post of the OP. Sometimes life is difficult Brian. And as you know, threads diverge into variants of the initial topic all the time. Happy holidays to you, matt, and, of course, Randy.
 
Coming to this discussion a bit late, but I'll add one more annoyance from not being able to see prices online... As a consumer in an area with almost zero B&M retail audio options, I don't even have the option of calling my dealer(s) to ask for the missing data. Instead, I'm on a side-quest to find out who might actually sell the item in question. Which brings Problem #2 - most manufacturers (large or small) do a dreadful job of providing an online listing of their dealers, and are even worse at knowing what products they have on the floor. So now I don't have a price or know who to call to inquire about one. So I call / email the manufacturer, who usually takes a couple of days to provide me with a name of someone halfway across the country who doesn't actually handle that brand actively any more, and certainly doesn't have the product available to hear. By that point, I've decided to give up on whatever the shiny new item might have been. I could call Mike if I know he carries it, but since I'm unlikely to buy a 5-figure piece of audio gear without an audition, I don't want to waste his time. Someone's lost a sale, and the customer walks away from the brand entirely to find someone more eager to sell their wares.

It's as though the audio industry has decided that gear above a certain price point requires a set of secret handshakes to gain access to the option of even considering a purchase. Simply making a portal of information available including pricing and who sells it seems like such a simple and necessary marketing option that I really struggle with any of the reasons why it wouldn't be done. I would almost certainly have purchased more or different items (and quite possibly more expensive ones at that) if simple information like list prices and who sells it was more readily available. I have no objection to not being able to complete the sale online (I still want to hear before I buy, so online audio sales don't much appeal to me), but at least make the starting point of MSRP and retailer available.

Disclaimer: I work in a high-end industry where no specific pricing is public except for gross generalizations in trade magazine articles. The conventional wisdom has been that the market is small enough, the number of manufacturers in the market is small enough (less than 10), and the cost of entry is high enough that anyone truly interested in the product is either already known to the manufacturers or will have no trouble finding us for an inquiry. All product is also generally sold directly from the manufacturer, not through a dealer network. Still, I do wonder if we miss out on potential sales by not being transparent enough - do people think our wares are even more expensive than they actually are, and decide not to even try?

Audio gear has too many choices of make and model and the target market is too broad for this method to make any sense to me, though. Concerns about international variation in prices are a weak excuse too. I know a BMW costs far less in the USA than the same car does in Germany (or Singapore), even if it were feature-for-feature identical...because BMW doesn't try to hide it. Go "build" the car on the different countries BMW site, and there it is. The manufacturer has made a choice to price things that way, and of course international tariffs play a role too. Audio is really fundamentally no different in why there might be variation.
 
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