Esoteric K-01X versus Schiit Audio Yggdrasil

Audioguru1 said:
I can't help but wonder how the Yggdrasil would compare (PCM only) to some of the other "no compromise design" DACs that are getting a ton of buzz right now such as the:

-Chord Dave
-Berkeley Audio Alpha 2
-MSB Reference
-And not to mention my own Mcintosh D1100!
Click to expand...

I think the Chord Dave is a step up with a clearly different sound signature. I don’t think I've seen anyone prefering the Yggy in comparisons online. That said, I don’t know how much the new Analog 2 evens the playing field.

Edit: adamely on this forum prefers the Yggy over the Dave.

Berkeley Alpha 2:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...-Schiit-Yggdrasil-DAC-vs-Berkeley-Alpha-DAC-2

MSB no idea.

D1100, I think you should give it a comparison yourself if you are in the US. I know the DAC in my C47 isn’t even in the same stratosphere as the Yggy, but by no means a D1100. Sabre based especially with the older 9018 you might be very surprised by the “mega burrito” filter.
 
myjazz123 said:
Hi Dan, when you have time will it be possible compare the K-01x playing CD via its transport and Schiit dac with Aurender N10. I know its not apples to apples, but curious what is the outcome.

Also can you tell what made you to go from 4X up conversion and SDLY2 filter (this is what you preferred based on your initial reviews/comment with K-01x) to no filters. I got new K-01x last week and so far braking 4x and SDLY2 since this is what I had before on my esoteric k-05x.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

myjazz123.......In the beginning with my K-01X, and the K-03 before it, I had this notion that upconversion was some sort of panacea, a way to inject greater realism into a music file playback. I used 4x upconversion and short delay 2 (SDL2) on the K-03, then carried the same settings to the K-01X. I have owned the K-01X now for almost a year. In that time I have spent many hours auditioning the various combinations of upconversion and filter settings. After months and months of listening to the various selections available I found myself continually returning to the original (ORG) setting of no upconversion. I began to sense that listening to files in their native format sounded more realistic. I would spend weeks on ORG, then switch to 2x, then 4x then 8x over a weeks time, and each time I returned to no upconversion (ORG) the music sounded more authentic and natural. The same goes for the four filter settings the K-01X provides. Quite frankly, most of the time I didn't sense the filter setting were improving a thing, so I came to leave them off as well. Neither the Short delay filters (SDLY1 and SDLY2) or the finite impulse response filters (FIR1 and FIR2) gave me the impression of improved sound. That is how I came to the settings I have enjoyed for the past five or six months, i.e. no upconversion or filters are being used. The good thing about the Esoteric K-01X is those options always remain available should I experience an epiphany and find my perception altered. In high-end audio nothing is absolute.
 
Audioguru1 said:
Dan - thanks for conducting this comprehensive review and shootout. In all honesty I was expecting the K01x to come out on top. I guess we all form biases to a certain extent based on things like brand name/reputation, price point, and not to mention our own "confirmation bias" when we plunk down $ for a new piece of equipment. This review shatters many of those notions. Kudos to you for remaining completely neutral and stepping into this comparison with an open mind. I can't help but wonder how the Yggdrasil would compare (PCM only) to some of the other "no compromise design" DACs that are getting a ton of buzz right now such as the:

-Chord Dave
-Berkeley Audio Alpha 2
-MSB Reference
-And not to mention my own Mcintosh D1100!
Click to expand...

Audioguru1.......I believe Mike commented in another thread that he compared the Yggdrasil to the Berkeley Audio Alpha Reference 2. He said the Yggdrasil performed well in that comparison but his preference leaned toward the Berkeley DAC.

I don't think I or anyone else for that matter is trying to say the Yggdrasil DAC walks the dog with the DAC's you mentioned. What I have tried to express by relaying my personal experience is the Yggdrasil is a serious performer that stands up remarkably well in comparison to many ultra-high dollar DAC's at a price point that is less than twice the sales tax on my Esoteric K-01X. That is the real swan song.
 
Dr Tone said:
So Esoteric runs in some sort of NOS brickwall filter mode in ORG?
Click to expand...

Jeff.......I can't confirm that because I don't know. The K-01X owner's manual says this.

OFF - No digital filter is used during PCM playback. Using this setting, high-frequency harmonic components will be output. If noise occurs because of cross modulation from high frequency harmonic components, for example, set “PCMF” to “FIR” or “SDLY” instead.
 
jdandy said:
Jeff.......I can't confirm that because I don't know. The K-01X owner's manual says this.

OFF - No digital filter is used during PCM playback. Using this setting, high-frequency harmonic components will be output. If noise occurs because of cross modulation from high frequency harmonic components, for example, set “PCMF” to “FIR” or “SDLY” instead.
Click to expand...

I think the other filters would even the analytical playing field a bit but most likely soften, color and possibly smear things a bit. Be these good or bad changes, personal preference.
 
Dr Tone said:
So Esoteric runs in some sort of NOS brickwall filter mode in ORG?
Click to expand...

Filters from AKM website. Take a guess.

By the way, it is interesting to note that Grandioso K1 and N-01 removed the PCM filter selection. I interpret this as Esoteric determined this to be the best filter, and Dan came to the same conclusion.

image.jsp
 
jdandy said:
I used 4x upconversion and short delay 2 (SDL2) on the K-03, then carried the same settings to the K-01X. I have owned the K-01X now for almost a year. In that time I have spent many hours auditioning the various combinations of upconversion and filter settings. After months and months of listening to the various selections available I found myself continually returning to the original (ORG) setting of no upconversion.
Click to expand...

Checking the data sheets of the DAC chips used in K-03 and K-01X, the chip-level filters are very different. So this may explain the change of preferred settings - I speculate that there may be underlying implementation differences beneath the same settings.
 
wklie said:
Checking the data sheets of the DAC chips used in K-03 and K-01X, the chip-level filters are very different. So this may explain the change of preferred settings - I speculate that there may be underlying implementation differences beneath the same settings.
Click to expand...

wklie.......This is interesting information. I appreciate you posting about this. I did find the 4x upconversion and SDLY2 filter on the K-03 to sound better than not upconversion and no filter. That is not the case with my K-01X and your findings helps me understand the difference. All I have to rely on is my ears. Theu show me the way and I follow. That is how I came to use no upconversion or filters with my K-01X.

I am aware the Grandioso K1 removed the filter options. That was part of the catalyst for me to begin experimenting with my K-01X filter settings.
 
good morning!:hey:
this is great! it is by reading about things I cannot afford that I am able to learn, and to try to find things that are GREAT at a much lower price! the last 2 years learning have been super! thanks to Mike Chadwell at Avanti audio, who makes cables for down to earth prices, Kevin in Australia for tons of free advice, JDandy for a very erudite and comprehensive review of the Yggy and his personal advice, and ESPECIALLY Mike Bovaird, who tirelessly answers all my dumb questions and offers me the very best available in my price range! His finding the Harbeth speakers for me made an ASTOUNDING difference to my sound!

I got the Yggy yesterday, it is turned on, waiting for my cable today or tomorrow!!

thanks guys!

bob
 
Bob.......Congratulations on your new Yggdrasil DAC. Allow it to remained powered and have a digital signal fed to it 24/7 for a minimum of 300 hours of break-in. It is an astonishing DAC but it does need some hours on it to settle into its permanent voice.
 
jdandy said:
Bob.......Congratulations on your new Yggdrasil DAC. Allow it to remained powered and have a digital signal fed to it 24/7 for a minimum of 300 hours of break-in. It is an astonishing DAC but it does need some hours on it to settle into its permanent voice.
Click to expand...

I also recommend don't listen to it for the first 24 hours of music pumping through it. Mine was brutal when I first plugged it in. :(. It's very different now.
 
Old Bob said:
good morning!:hey:
this is great! it is by reading about things I cannot afford that I am able to learn, and to try to find things that are GREAT at a much lower price! the last 2 years learning have been super! thanks to Mike Chadwell at Avanti audio, who makes cables for down to earth prices, Kevin in Australia for tons of free advice, JDandy for a very erudite and comprehensive review of the Yggy and his personal advice, and ESPECIALLY Mike Bovaird, who tirelessly answers all my dumb questions and offers me the very best available in my price range! His finding the Harbeth speakers for me made an ASTOUNDING difference to my sound!

I got the Yggy yesterday, it is turned on, waiting for my cable today or tomorrow!!

thanks guys!

bob
Click to expand...

That's awesome Bob, enjoy
 
jdandy said:
myjazz123.......In the beginning with my K-01X, and the K-03 before it, I had this notion that upconversion was some sort of panacea, a way to inject greater realism into a music file playback. I used 4x upconversion and short delay 2 (SDL2) on the K-03, then carried the same settings to the K-01X. I have owned the K-01X now for almost a year. In that time I have spent many hours auditioning the various combinations of upconversion and filter settings. After months and months of listening to the various selections available I found myself continually returning to the original (ORG) setting of no upconversion. I began to sense that listening to files in their native format sounded more realistic. I would spend weeks on ORG, then switch to 2x, then 4x then 8x over a weeks time, and each time I returned to no upconversion (ORG) the music sounded more authentic and natural. The same goes for the four filter settings the K-01X provides. Quite frankly, most of the time I didn't sense the filter setting were improving a thing, so I came to leave them off as well. Neither the Short delay filters (SDLY1 and SDLY2) or the finite impulse response filters (FIR1 and FIR2) gave me the impression of improved sound. That is how I came to the settings I have enjoyed for the past five or six months, i.e. no upconversion or filters are being used. The good thing about the Esoteric K-01X is those options always remain available should I experience an epiphany and find my perception altered. In high-end audio nothing is absolute.
Click to expand...

Dan, thanks for this post. After a lot of experimentation and reading what others have settled on, I've been using 2X up-conversion and the SDLY2 filter for PCM recordings on my K-03X. But after reading your post, I decided to re-try the original settings. At the moment, I believe I prefer them for much the same reasons you gave. My summation for these would be: slightly less smooth/polite but a bit more real. These will take a while to completely break in, but I suspect this is where I'll stay.
 
Dan, I think we all agree that that is one hell of a place mat for your schiit :D Thanks for the write-up.
 
sharkmouth said:
Dan, I think we all agree that that is one hell of a place mat for your schiit :D Thanks for the write-up.
Click to expand...

Kevin.......Thank you. Yes, the Yggdrasil looks right at home stacked with the Aurender N10 and the Esoteric K-01X.


39808247822_99fe9757f6_b.jpg




I have moved the Yggdrasil back to the living room sound system. I have continued to feed it a digital signal 24/7 and it now has 789 hours of break-in logged. I am listening to it right now. It is so smooth and natural sounding. It is a joy to hear.


38763946715_5d59eda7cb_c.jpg
 
Yggdrasil!

i listened for the first time yesterday and today. DAC was plugged in, with NO signal wednesday night. some pretty strong early impressions: the music JUMPS out of the speakers. the detail is beyond belief. first up. Murray Perahia bach keyboard concertos 3,5,6,7. i could hear him BREATHE!!!! i hear the cello bows scraping on the strings. the BASS is much improved. this is going to be some DAC.

Chestnut Mare, by the Byrds. now i can hear it was poorly recorded! discouraging. then, Lyin eyes by the EAGLES. wow. wow. closed my eyes, lead singer is right in front of me, speakers disappeared!!!!! WOW.

the early bass and drum notes in One of these nights-- beyond belief. that BASS was never there before. wow. you can now tell if a cd was badly recorded!!!!
short version- music jumps right out at you, incredible bass, meticulous detail.

more to come
bob.

JDandy, this is all your fault, got the Visa statement today! ha!
 
Old Bob said:
Yggdrasil!

i listened for the first time yesterday and today. DAC was plugged in, with NO signal wednesday night. some pretty strong early impressions: the music JUMPS out of the speakers. the detail is beyond belief. first up. Murray Perahia bach keyboard concertos 3,5,6,7. i could hear him BREATHE!!!! i hear the cello bows scraping on the strings. the BASS is much improved. this is going to be some DAC.

Chestnut Mare, by the Byrds. now i can hear it was poorly recorded! discouraging. then, Lyin eyes by the EAGLES. wow. wow. closed my eyes, lead singer is right in front of me, speakers disappeared!!!!! WOW.

the early bass and drum notes in One of these nights-- beyond belief. that BASS was never there before. wow. you can now tell if a cd was badly recorded!!!!
short version- music jumps right out at you, incredible bass, meticulous detail.

more to come
bob.

JDandy, this is all your fault, got the Visa statement today! ha!
Click to expand...

Bob.......I am happy for you because I know exactly what you are experiencing. Just wait until the Yggdrasil has 300+ hours on it, then 500 hours. Keep it on with a signal fed to it. The Yggdrasil will slowly blossom like a beautiful hybrid orchid.

About that Visa statement just remember this, the sting of the purchase is short lived, but the pleasure of your Yggdrasil will last a very long time.
 
Old Bob said:
Yggdrasil!

i listened for the first time yesterday and today. DAC was plugged in, with NO signal wednesday night. some pretty strong early impressions: the music JUMPS out of the speakers. the detail is beyond belief. first up. Murray Perahia bach keyboard concertos 3,5,6,7. i could hear him BREATHE!!!! i hear the cello bows scraping on the strings. the BASS is much improved. this is going to be some DAC.

Chestnut Mare, by the Byrds. now i can hear it was poorly recorded! discouraging. then, Lyin eyes by the EAGLES. wow. wow. closed my eyes, lead singer is right in front of me, speakers disappeared!!!!! WOW.

the early bass and drum notes in One of these nights-- beyond belief. that BASS was never there before. wow. you can now tell if a cd was badly recorded!!!!
short version- music jumps right out at you, incredible bass, meticulous detail.

more to come
bob.

JDandy, this is all your fault, got the Visa statement today! ha!
Click to expand...

Welcome to the rabbit hole Bob, what colour pill did you take? ;)

 
Kev: please go out fishing, until you are very seasick and very sunburned. as far as which pill did i take- i took all the "stupid" pills in the bottle! this stereo business is trouble!

JDandy:
i listened at length today to lots of music from the Eagles, well recorded, i may say. the vocals were outstanding. the details i had never heard before: the intro to "one of these nights" total left and right separation, and what i think is a hand sliding over the frets of a bass guitar. then, the lead guitar begins, SUSPENDED IN THE CENTER!!!! the DAC is on 24/7, and i play CD's through it when home, i have to figure out how to "repeat play" on my OPPO 105 cd player. i never knew CD's could sound this good.
next: will listen to tons of Beatles, and Berlin Philharmonic.

my beginner conclusion, a high end DAC was money well spent.

thanks, everybody!!


if i am not losing my mind- the vocals sound SWEETER today than earlier days. the immense, full rich bass and details were there RIGHT AWAY, but the vocals are sweeter today.
 
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