Blind Comparisons

B

bluegrassphile

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I'm kind of surprised we don't see a lot more blind comparisons on the AS and other forums. They might tell the story a little better than second party reports on a single component. They wouldn't necessarily have to determine which is "better," but just do a subjective report of the SQ and characteristics of a given component vs another/others.

A blind comparison might make for more interesting reading and inject a little more objectivity into the reports. The more components that are compared the more interesting the report. I have seen some comparisons but not many. You could compare components in similar price ranges. For example, a comparison of the Gryphon D300, Pass int 250, T+A 3100, Simaudio 700i, the Levinson, McIntosh, and Krell integrated amps, etc. Or, you could do the same type of blind comparisons of similarly priced DACs.

You could have several different people audition each component and not reveal the names of the components until the end of the comparison. It's nothing that hasn't been done before. You just don't see it very often. Sometimes a comparison between multiple components will give a different perspective on a piece of equipment vs a single write up of a given component. Just use your imagination regarding the set up of the comparison. You could have a number system or weighted number system to describe the characteristics or number of characteristics of a given component/s.

Anyway, just some ramblings that might make for interesting reading. My 2 cents. Just trying to stimulate some discussion.
 
Besides dealers, who would have the resources (time, money and access to all the gear YOU want to see compared) to do such a comparison?

If you want to do the comparison yourself you'll need to purchase a whole bunch of new amplifiers and gear and then sell off the losers.
 
We’ve done them in the store and sometimes people still don’t want to believe it! We did one recently with JUST USB cables. The customer swore the one that comes with his printer was all he needed. We then compared vs Shunyata and AQ. We could all hear the difference, even him, but he just wouldn’t accept that a USB cable could matter.

There is also long debates as to whether blind tests even work.
 
To each their own, anything short is a battle.

It’s funny to read past threads despite the forum and come across a lot of escalated disagreement over someone’s thoughts.

Comedy to me, battle to them.


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MikeCh said:
Besides dealers, who would have the resources (time, money and access to all the gear YOU want to see compared) to do such a comparison?
If you want to do the comparison yourself you'll need to purchase a whole bunch of new amplifiers and gear and then sell off the losers.
Click to expand...
It's seems that audiophiles are doing sighted comparisons all the time. Why don't they have the problems that you write about?
 
Blind test threads on most audio forums are as popular as STDs at an orgy. It’s better to strike up a conversation with a stranger and discuss politics, money, and religion than to discuss blind tests on audio forums.
 
It’s also important to have a base line. Are you just comparing A to B or are you comparing them to what you believe is “The Absolute Sound” or what you have at home?

A is better than B, but compared to what? Each other? What you have at home? Your memory of acoustic music?

And it’s ok to just like what you like and not give a crap about how it compares to A, B, C or D.

Visuals play a huge role, so blind might not be the best way.
 
Mike said:
We’ve done them in the store and sometimes people still don’t want to believe it! We did one recently with JUST USB cables. The customer swore the one that comes with his printer was all he needed. We then compared vs Shunyata and AQ. We could all hear the difference, even him, but he just wouldn’t accept that a USB cable could matter.

There is also long debates as to whether blind tests even work.
Click to expand...

on top of that, setting up a true blind or double blind experiment is not a trivial task as you're back to this mess of making sure you're isolating the right variables in a system that has many. also psychoacoustics and placebo is often pointed to as a negative which i don't think is really fair - there was a fascinating piece about placebo effects in nyt a year or so back: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/07/magazine/placebo-effect-medicine.html
 
mep said:
Blind test threads on most audio forums are as popular as STDs at an orgy. It’s better to strike up a conversation with a stranger and discuss politics, money, and religion than to discuss blind tests on audio forums.
Click to expand...

And they most always end up in "internet fights", hardly ever productive . And sometimes people just can't understand peoples ears, brains and music sensory abilities are not the same.
 
If you want to know what something sounds like, to your ears, then conduct a controlled aka blind test.
If you want to know what the experience of something is like, under typical conditions, with sight, knowledge, sound, street rep, price, tactile feel, etc, etc, etc....then no controlled aka blind test is needed whatsoever.

cheers,

AJ
 
I just live with the component a few days before making an assessment. If I’m happy after a few days, what else does it matter?
 
Legitimate double-blind comparisons are extremely difficult to conduct, and simple gear swapping (as an individual or in groups) doesn't meet the necessary rigor. I have participated in rigorous double-blind tests executed under the MUSHRA method, and it's both tiring, time- and resource-intensive, and not easily replicated for hardware comparisons. It's also made me very aware there are people with much better hearing than me (many of whom work in the audio codec/encoding field), even though many people consider me to have very good hearing.

I will need much more training and practice to try and reliably pass codec MUSHRA tests. People who work on this stuff test themselves (practice) every day.

That being said, I do regularly compare products as objectively as I can. The ones that that aren't outstanding in one way or another, or which aren't worth the cost, are simply quietly passed on. In my experience, there is gear that you can easily tell the difference between without having to rigorously prove it to yourself, and there is also gear that is probably going to be indistinguishable from each other if you were to run a double-blind test.
 
The thing is, everyone who posted in this thread will hear something different. So when you read a review or an opinion on a website you're only getting a general idea of how something sounds. You the consumer have to listen to a piece to truly see if it makes you happy and is worth spending money on.
 
I did a bunch of double blind testing as an audio engineer. Used a DLC Designs A/B/X comparator. It is about the most un-fun thing you can possibly do as a hobbiest. Lethal buzz kill at its finest.

Blind testing is interesting but it is very difficult to remove the visual and setup clues as to which gear is playing. The test runner can easily add bias or ‘tells’ that may impact the listener’s preference.

Then there is the order/sequence conundrum where the order in which the test is conducted is a greater determinant of listener preference than the component itself.
 
I have found by selecting and knowing reference tracks works best for me.

Either a system or component delivers in spades or an acceptable portion thereof, maker or price be damned.


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The problem is: there are more and more people believing in this dogshit, amd sadly it hurts the quality of audio.

If they say:

No double blind test on audio proves difference means

Dacs make no sense
Amps no blindfold tests
Wires, copper is copper, all sound the same
Oversampling: Myquist proved that 44 kHz is good enough and the disturbance is outside the hearable frequency.
Powersupply: lol
Source: ones amd zeros, a chromecast audio is the cheapest choice and sounds the same as expensive streaming devices

Problem with this: correct me if I am wrong: if people spend 10k on audio: they do it like this
9.6k on speakers
300 on the cheapest amp wit the most of properties
60 on a chromecast audio
20 on wires
3 on voltage
And last but not least, the cheapest spotify connection at 320 kbps.

Sad 😞
 
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