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  1. #1

    The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    The biggest secret has been revealed!

    https://www.monoandstereo.com/2021/0...ions.html#more

    For those who want to believe!

    Whoever takes a walk on my topic understands how this is a permanent concern.

    Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    I would like to point out the special concern of the author with the decoupling of the speakers from the floor (in my opinion the most critical point of an audio system - more important than the placement in the room – yeah, i stand alone in this opinion), and the care to be taken with the vibration of the transformers themselves.

    From the text:

    Not enough has been written concerning the effects of vibration on high-end audio components. I am surprised. Unwanted vibrations have a serious, adverse impact on the performance of most, if not all, modern audio and video equipment. The reduction or removal of these vibrations can significantly improve the resolution of every system.

    …vibrations that can travel through the structure, potentially affecting sensitive board-level circuit components. Less obvious, but in some ways more problematic, are transformers.

    Speakers, the component responsible for producing the vibrations we seek to quell, require careful placement techniques to ensure the best performance and least interference.

    Manufacturers are just beginning to scratch the surface of this very important aspect of equipment design/construction.

    Designers and Engineers are advancing the art of controlling vibrational energy at the component level, but still more needs to be done.


  2. #2

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    The biggest secret has been revealed!

    https://www.monoandstereo.com/2021/0...ions.html#more

    For those who want to believe!

    Whoever takes a walk on my topic understands how this is a permanent concern.

    Spock system (the importance of fine tuning)

    I would like to point out the special concern of the author with the decoupling of the speakers from the floor (in my opinion the most critical point of an audio system - more important than the placement in the room – yeah, i stand alone in this opinion), and the care to be taken with the vibration of the transformers themselves.

    From the text:

    Not enough has been written concerning the effects of vibration on high-end audio components. I am surprised. Unwanted vibrations have a serious, adverse impact on the performance of most, if not all, modern audio and video equipment. The reduction or removal of these vibrations can significantly improve the resolution of every system.

    …vibrations that can travel through the structure, potentially affecting sensitive board-level circuit components. Less obvious, but in some ways more problematic, are transformers.

    Speakers, the component responsible for producing the vibrations we seek to quell, require careful placement techniques to ensure the best performance and least interference.

    Manufacturers are just beginning to scratch the surface of this very important aspect of equipment design/construction.

    Designers and Engineers are advancing the art of controlling vibrational energy at the component level, but still more needs to be done.


    Thanks for sharing.

    We have many even in 2021 that still believe cables don't matter.

    So, Vibration control is a tough sell to some.

    Maybe scoff at the prices or don't believe it makes a difference, same thing with cables and or any "Tweak"

    However, I think we are seeing more education regarding this topic than we were years ago.

    More designers are offering more accessible vibration control products than ever before.

    I plan on getting a pair of GAIA (Iso Acoustics) de-coupling footers for my speakers ASAP.

    I'm sold on the positive impacts of vibration control.

  3. #3
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    i am a believer ...huge SQ impact when i added the core audio rack.

    obvious example: vacuum tubes -- there is simply no way that vibrations don't affect them. if you are skeptical, just shake a lamp with a filament bulb and watch the light flicker.
    kanjiroba yak + roon rock > t+a dac8 dsd > air tight atm-300r almarro a318b > viking acoustics berlin r mk2
    core audio designs plyKraft 3L | hifi racks ltd podium t5-iii | alp-tone audio analog cables

  4. #4

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by aKnyght View Post
    i am a believer ...huge SQ impact when i added the core audio rack.

    obvious example: vacuum tubes -- there is simply no way that vibrations don't affect them. if you are skeptical, just shake a lamp with a filament bulb and watch the light flicker.
    Yep, that's why there are no vacuum tube audio products on the market because no one knows how to make them work. The manufacturers can't get people to stop shaking their vacuum tubes and they are tired of being sued over burns to people's fingers and hands.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  5. #5
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    not sure i understand your point
    kanjiroba yak + roon rock > t+a dac8 dsd > air tight atm-300r almarro a318b > viking acoustics berlin r mk2
    core audio designs plyKraft 3L | hifi racks ltd podium t5-iii | alp-tone audio analog cables

  6. #6

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by aKnyght View Post
    not sure i understand your point
    If you’re truly not sure, I can’t explain it to you.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  7. #7
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    humor me and give it a try
    kanjiroba yak + roon rock > t+a dac8 dsd > air tight atm-300r almarro a318b > viking acoustics berlin r mk2
    core audio designs plyKraft 3L | hifi racks ltd podium t5-iii | alp-tone audio analog cables

  8. #8

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by aKnyght View Post
    humor me and give it a try
    I think he was making a joke that one wouldn’t shake a hot vacuum tube or light bulb for fear of burning one’s fingers. If my assumption is incorrect then I like you don’t get what he is saying either.

  9. #9

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by RDSChicago View Post
    I think he was making a joke that one wouldn’t shake a hot vacuum tube or light bulb for fear of burning one’s fingers. If my assumption is incorrect then I like you don’t get what he is saying either.
    You nailed it.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  10. #10

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    You nailed it.
    At least I got one thing right today!

  11. #11

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    I have used different kinds of wood and cables to change the sound of my system for 20 years. There is no doubt that changing and controlling vibration changes the sound. Shunyata uses damping on the covers of the Denali to change the sound, if it didn't work they wouldn't bother. In my opinion the master at vibration and tuning is this guy, look it up......Vansevers, The Art and Science of System Tuning.

  12. #12
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    You nailed it.
    aight, i'll go with that

    ___________________

    note: for anyone attempting this experiment at home, important safety reminder: the recommended test is to "shake a lamp with a filament bulb and watch the light flicker" ...please, do not shake the bulb directly.
    kanjiroba yak + roon rock > t+a dac8 dsd > air tight atm-300r almarro a318b > viking acoustics berlin r mk2
    core audio designs plyKraft 3L | hifi racks ltd podium t5-iii | alp-tone audio analog cables

  13. #13
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Can we take this seriously? The first like of the quote reads "Not enough has been written concerning the effects of vibration on high-end audio components."

    With respect, what nonsense. With the exception of cables, this subject is just about the most talked about in hi-fi. And everyone has their own opinions that differ hugely and there's no right answer. There's so much snake oil around the subject too as the wool can so easily be pulled over users' eyes. So much will depend on circumstances, particularly the floor that speakers stand on, that there's little point in considering this particular vague discussion.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33, NAD M12, Consonance Cyber 845 monoblocs
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006 - aesthetically modified), Martin Logan Expression 13A (now sold)

  14. #14
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    For the first time, I am getting more serious about this topic, and I am really looking forward to the changes it may bring.

    I've built a very fine system consisting of Wilson Alexia one's, Audio Research Ref6SE/Ref160 monos, Esoteric N-01XD and G-02X clock, Clearaudio Ovation TT with universal arm and Lyra Kleos, and the Esoteric E-03 phono pre. It's all tied together with Shunyata power and Transparent Reference G5 signal cables.

    Sounds fantastic, but up to now I've only had a basic salamander rack. Particle board! I did buy 3 HRS S3 isolation bases to put across the top of it, and my DAC, Preamp, and TT are sitting on them. Everything else? Zero vibration control.

    I just ordered an Adona rack and amp stands, and another HRS S3 base. I will use the HRS isolation bases for the preamp, power amps, and the TT. Then I bought IsoAcoustics Orea feet for everything else.

    Yes, you read that right, I am putting HRS bases on top of Adona bases for several components. I might regret the looks, I am not sure yet. We'll see. I like the look of Adona, but I like the additional performance of the HRS. The Orea seem very well made for smaller components.

    When I get it all together in a few weeks, I'll post some pics. I expect that going from zero vibration control on several components (including my tube monos) to having 2 levels of it, will be a bump in SQ. Even if not, it sure will look better!
    --Marc

  15. #15

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    That's a very nice system. You will really like that Adona rack, it made an obvious improvement in my system. What sold me on Adona was the multi layered shelves and the threaded feet under the shelves. Do yourself a favor and use a screwdriver style allen key when you assemble, makes it a bunch easier. I chased some upper midrange glare for a bit when I first moved my system upstairs. I thought it was the room. After hanging a bunch of blankets on the walls I realized it was something else. Adona for the win!

  16. #16
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Its not like this isn't well known in audio. My Scully lathe sits on a table made for it- which has adjustable spikes for the floor and an anti-vibration platform. It was made about 1949 (the lathe later being set up for stereo).

    So points under audio equipment goes back that far anyway- 70 years- that's a pretty good run.

    Ampex had isomeric decoupling in their tape electronics. I don't think they had any doubts about the audibility or measurability of that.

  17. #17

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by atmasphere View Post
    Its not like this isn't well known in audio. My Scully lathe sits on a table made for it- which has adjustable spikes for the floor and an anti-vibration platform. It was made about 1949 (the lathe later being set up for stereo).

    So points under audio equipment goes back that far anyway- 70 years- that's a pretty good run.

    Ampex had isomeric decoupling in their tape electronics. I don't think they had any doubts about the audibility or measurability of that.
    Good points! Shunyata uses vibration damping on the covers of the Denali. My experience with adding damping on equipment covers results in sweeter highs and an overall sense of smoothness to the sound. The reviews of the Denali reference these traits, imagine that.

  18. #18

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Not sure if this is the right spot, but is there a good iPhone ap for measuring room acoustics?
    Don't want to spend a lot, but would help fine tuning my room.
    Thanks!
    Jeff Rowland 925 mono amps - EMM Labs DV2 - DA/Preamp + NS1 - MBL 101E MkII speakers + REL 212SE sub - AudioQuest William Tell ZERO/BASS speaker cables - Transparent REFERENCE MM2 interconnects - Mojo Audio modded MacMini with UpTone Linear Power Supply - Audioquest Niagara 5000 Power Conditioner - AudioQuest Dragon/Hurricane HC & Source power cords - - ADDpower Sorcer 2 - Oppo 105 BluRay/Transport/Streamer - EVP HDR isolators, Marigo RHX Mystery Feet, Symposium Acoustics Platforms + Stillpoints Aperture panels
    Dealer for Purist Audio Design cables

  19. #19
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by FRO View Post
    Not sure if this is the right spot, but is there a good iPhone ap for measuring room acoustics?
    Don't want to spend a lot, but would help fine tuning my room.
    Thanks!
    The biggest problem most people run into with room acoustics is getting the bass right. The usual problem is standing waves in the room, which might allow bass to be almost everywhere except the listening chair. This is a very common problem!

    Its usually something that happens below 80Hz so there is an elegant solution, which is to use something called a Distributed Bass Array. Because your ears cannot acknowledge a sound until the entire waveform has passed by your ear, and because at 80Hz the waveform is 14 feet long, in most rooms this means the bass fundamentals are omnidirectional. Because of this, you can asymmetrically place subwoofers about the room, none of them operating above 80Hz, and thus break up the standing waves, resulting in evenly distributed bass throughout the room. As long as the subs do not have any output above 80Hz they will not attract attention to themselves so your main speakers will be convincing you of where the bass is coming from.

    There are three approaches to dealing with bass problems in a room; the other two are DSP room correction and bass traps. Compared to a DBA, these latter two solutions are about 5% effective. They can fix a peak, but not a null due to cancellation, as a null will need the bass to be boosted. Since cancellation is going on, you can put thousands of watts into that cancellation and not get much in the way of results!

    If your room seems bright, its best to make sure the bass is right first, since if the bass is shy, your ears will tend to tell you things are tilted to the highs which of course they are. Get the bass right and the room might not seem so bright.

  20. #20
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by atmasphere View Post
    The biggest problem most people run into with room acoustics is getting the bass right. The usual problem is standing waves in the room, which might allow bass to be almost everywhere except the listening chair. This is a very common problem!

    Its usually something that happens below 80Hz so there is an elegant solution, which is to use something called a Distributed Bass Array. Because your ears cannot acknowledge a sound until the entire waveform has passed by your ear, and because at 80Hz the waveform is 14 feet long, in most rooms this means the bass fundamentals are omnidirectional. Because of this, you can asymmetrically place subwoofers about the room, none of them operating above 80Hz, and thus break up the standing waves, resulting in evenly distributed bass throughout the room. As long as the subs do not have any output above 80Hz they will not attract attention to themselves so your main speakers will be convincing you of where the bass is coming from.

    There are three approaches to dealing with bass problems in a room; the other two are DSP room correction and bass traps. Compared to a DBA, these latter two solutions are about 5% effective. They can fix a peak, but not a null due to cancellation, as a null will need the bass to be boosted. Since cancellation is going on, you can put thousands of watts into that cancellation and not get much in the way of results!

    If your room seems bright, its best to make sure the bass is right first, since if the bass is shy, your ears will tend to tell you things are tilted to the highs which of course they are. Get the bass right and the room might not seem so bright.
    Completely agree with this. I use a distributed bass array/swarm configuration in my room to great affect. My bass is +/- 3db at 1/24 octave smoothing from 100Hz to 20Hz without DSP. Incredible what this does to set the foundation for the music. All frequencies improve. The sense of space is remarkable. This is the third room where I have used some variation of this concept and the result is always the same.
    Morgan

    SPEAKERS KEF Blade 2 w/IsoAcoustics Gaia II | SUBWOOFERS Four DIY Speaker Hardware 12" passive subs driven by Dayton SA1000 amp | AMPLIFICATION Pass Labs X350.8, Cary SLP-05 w/Ultimate Upgrade | DIGITAL Marantz SA-10, Sonore opticalModule and opticalRendu, NUC8i7BEH Roon Core | VINYL EAT C-Sharp, Hana SL, EAT E-Glo S w/LPS, Bob's Devices Sky 20 SUT | POWER AudioQuest Niagara 5000, two dedicated circuits | WIRES AudioQuest William Tell, Earth, Leopard, Tornado | RESONANCE/ISOLATION Nordost Sort Kones, various Herbie's Audio Lab

  21. #21
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by FRO View Post
    Not sure if this is the right spot, but is there a good iPhone ap for measuring room acoustics?
    Don't want to spend a lot, but would help fine tuning my room.
    Thanks!
    I would suggest Room EQ Wizard (REW) and the minidsp UMIK-1 USB microphone. REW is free and the mic is $75. If you have a microphone stand, you are all set. Under $100 to get all of the info you ever wanted about your room. The link below has some good, common sense recommendations on what to look for with measurements.

    http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/wp-..._standards.pdf
    Morgan

    SPEAKERS KEF Blade 2 w/IsoAcoustics Gaia II | SUBWOOFERS Four DIY Speaker Hardware 12" passive subs driven by Dayton SA1000 amp | AMPLIFICATION Pass Labs X350.8, Cary SLP-05 w/Ultimate Upgrade | DIGITAL Marantz SA-10, Sonore opticalModule and opticalRendu, NUC8i7BEH Roon Core | VINYL EAT C-Sharp, Hana SL, EAT E-Glo S w/LPS, Bob's Devices Sky 20 SUT | POWER AudioQuest Niagara 5000, two dedicated circuits | WIRES AudioQuest William Tell, Earth, Leopard, Tornado | RESONANCE/ISOLATION Nordost Sort Kones, various Herbie's Audio Lab

  22. #22

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    I am using DBA and DSP. Could not be happier with the results.
    IMO, DSP makes a much bigger difference than a merely 5%. Leading speaker manufacturers use DSP to improve their bass frequencies. And if used properly, DSP can effectively be used above bass frequencies.

  23. #23
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Is there a comprehensive guide to DBA ?

  24. #24
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Devg View Post
    Is there a comprehensive guide to DBA ?
    Not that I am aware of. Duke LeJeune of AudioKinesis has popularized the technique with his Swarm product. If you google Duke LeJeune and Swarm you will get a lot of forum discussions on the merits and methods of setup. Hope that helps.
    Morgan

    SPEAKERS KEF Blade 2 w/IsoAcoustics Gaia II | SUBWOOFERS Four DIY Speaker Hardware 12" passive subs driven by Dayton SA1000 amp | AMPLIFICATION Pass Labs X350.8, Cary SLP-05 w/Ultimate Upgrade | DIGITAL Marantz SA-10, Sonore opticalModule and opticalRendu, NUC8i7BEH Roon Core | VINYL EAT C-Sharp, Hana SL, EAT E-Glo S w/LPS, Bob's Devices Sky 20 SUT | POWER AudioQuest Niagara 5000, two dedicated circuits | WIRES AudioQuest William Tell, Earth, Leopard, Tornado | RESONANCE/ISOLATION Nordost Sort Kones, various Herbie's Audio Lab

  25. #25

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Just to clarify, I used the term DBA loosely. I hired an audio expert to help set up my subs. He used multiple subs arranged asymmetrically in the room operating at 80hz. He did not call it DBA, but the idea is the same and the set up eliminates standing waves and do not call attention to the subs.

  26. #26
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    I am using DBA and DSP. Could not be happier with the results.
    IMO, DSP makes a much bigger difference than a merely 5%. Leading speaker manufacturers use DSP to improve their bass frequencies. And if used properly, DSP can effectively be used above bass frequencies.
    If you have a DBA to start with, then your room correction can now do what it is meant to do.

  27. #27

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    It seems to me of some humility, to recognize that they have tried and continue to try to find the best solution.
    Because it's not easy ...

    https://www.monoandstereo.com/2021/0...feet.html#more

  28. #28
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    The biggest secret has been revealed!

    For those who want to believe!

    Whoever takes a walk on my topic understands how this is a permanent concern.

    I would like to point out the special concern of the author with the decoupling of the speakers from the floor (in my opinion the most critical point of an audio system - more important than the placement in the room – yeah, i stand alone in this opinion), and the care to be taken with the vibration of the transformers themselves.

    From the text:

    Not enough has been written concerning the effects of vibration on high-end audio components. I am surprised. Unwanted vibrations have a serious, adverse impact on the performance of most, if not all, modern audio and video equipment. The reduction or removal of these vibrations can significantly improve the resolution of every system.

    …vibrations that can travel through the structure, potentially affecting sensitive board-level circuit components. Less obvious, but in some ways more problematic, are transformers.

    Speakers, the component responsible for producing the vibrations we seek to quell, require careful placement techniques to ensure the best performance and least interference.

    Manufacturers are just beginning to scratch the surface of this very important aspect of equipment design/construction.

    Designers and Engineers are advancing the art of controlling vibrational energy at the component level, but still more needs to be done.


    Indeed the subject matter from a performance perspective is by far the biggest and best kept secret in the industry. And considering the text you highlighted above, it seems obvious to me the secret will remain hidden for some time to come.

    For example. The author claims that speakers are the component most responsible for producting the vibrations we seek to quell. To the best of my knowledge there simply is little to no truth with that statement. Hence, if we don't know the true source of the vibrations we seek to quell, we most likely are quelling the wrong thing, using incorrect methods, materials, designs, etc.

    IOW, I anticipate very few improvements resulting from their endeavors since they're already starting off on the wrong foot. But at least they've got the right target on the wall. Sort of.
    "The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt and extreme forms of vibration mgmt, the more I’m convinced it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. No, wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy" -me

  29. #29

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Well, let me welcome you and thank you for your 1st post on a topic that I’ve opened.
    It’s good to know that I’m not alone in this matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stehno View Post
    Indeed the subject matter from a performance perspective is by far the biggest and best kept secret in the industry.
    Totally with you. And, from my opinion, there is everything to say about this. Like about cables... Tons of words and where did we get? Nowhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stehno View Post
    And considering the text you highlighted above, it seems obvious to me the secret will remain hidden for some time to come.
    True, but it´s not author´s fault. He´s just advertising the subject from what he knows. Like me. And i don´t know nothing. I don´t have the answers just the questions. The problem is when the engineers and CEO´s at the brands just don´t care about it. I wonder how someone can have a lifetime in this hobby and never having encountered and deepened these questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stehno View Post
    Hence, if we don't know the true source of the vibrations we seek to quell, we most likely are quelling the wrong thing, using incorrect methods, materials, designs, etc.
    To me, it´s all about vibrations. You can see here APRESENTACAO E...DESPEDIDA ? (SPOCK) - Pagina 3 what i said in 21/03/2015

    …What, then, are the fundamental factors for the marked improvement in reproduction? Well, these factors have already been identified by many, so I have no fantastic findings to report to you. But it is worth remembering them and they are:
    - (micro) vibrations
    - EMI / RFI interference
    - electricity?
    Starting with the last one and explaining the question mark. There is no shortage of people who consider the issue of electricity to be the most important of all. And how many solutions do exist on the market, supposedly to improve the quality of the system's sap.
    .../...
    So what importance do I give to electricity? Huge in terms of its influence on the sound, but with a difference in approach that I want to clarify. The result of recent experiences with power cables, leads me to think that electricity is fundamentally influenced by the combination of the first two factors - vibrations and interference -, and it is essentially these polluting agents that make it different. In other words, according to this conviction, it would not even make much sense to place electricity as one of the 3 key elements for a quality sound because it does not seem to be the electric current per se producing differences. But on the other hand, there is another influential factor that is inherent and that is the conductive metal itself. Also in terms of electrical power, the distinctive sound of copper versus silver is felt. But in addition to the type of metal in fact influencing, many are the testimonies of various audiophiles (where I also include myself) that the decrease in resistance by increasing the section is also decisive. Essentially, I will say that a “polluted” electricity with spurious vibrations and EMI / RFI interference can absolutely compromise the performance of the most expensive of systems. Hence, and in summary, in a process of simplification of analysis, I am not disgusted that we can speak of electrical current as an independent factor capable of influencing the sound of a system.

  30. #30
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Thanks for the welcome, Spock. And thanks for the kind and open-minded response. You say you have no answers but you've obvlously got some good insight going for you. Especially when you correlate vibrations energy mgmt to electrical energy mgmt because that's exactly what it's about. As I like to say, electrical and mechanical energies are the two very energies required for every last playback system, yet when poorly managed will induce by far the biggest performance-limiting governor such that our playback systems can only perform far closer to their base performance potentials rather than their optimal potentials. I've dabbled with this stuff for 19 years now and it was only in this past year that I connected the dots and realized it's all about managing the electrical energy and the biggest impact there is by managing the resonant energy that electrical energy creates.

    Near as I can tell the noisy/dirty AC coming in from the street as well as the electrical energy being further corrupted within the components / cables along the input signal path is what establishes our playback system's noise floor (NF). The NF is a threshold that determines what percentage of the music info read from a recording and processed will remain audible (above the NF threshold) at the speaker. As well as determine the percentage of music info read and processed that remains inaudible (below the NF threshold) at the speaker. It's a percentage thing really and of course we start out by reading 100% of the music info embedded in a given recording.

    But the important part is to consider that even a SOTA-level playback system right out of the box and after burn-in, starts out with a much raised noise floor. IOW, nobody escapes the much raised noise floor dilemma as it's a univeral matter.

    These universal distortions in question (both audible but mostly inaudible) are so severe that when sufficiently addressed, I've no problem claiming the sonic harm induced by mechanical and primarily electrical easily outweigh any other collection of distortions. However, that should be a given since these two energies probably make up 90% of all distortions in our systems. IOW, electrical and mechanical energy management products, strategies, and methods determine the foundation of every last playback system - whether inferior or superior. And it is the foundation that ultimately determines the performance levels of everything associated with it.

    Nevertheless, you are correct in your assertion that electrical energy and its management is absolutely paramount from a performance perspective.

    I'll have to dive a bit deeper into your threads about this but from the sound of one of your vimeo videos on drums it sounds like you're really onto something in that other thread. Congratulations and thanks for the kind response.
    "The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt and extreme forms of vibration mgmt, the more I’m convinced it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. No, wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy" -me

  31. #31
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Vibration elimination has been known for years as a means for improving the sound. I have Mapleshade Micropoint brass footers under my gear, Magico SPOD footers on my speakers, and a 400 pound maple rack to reduce vibrations in the gear.
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    Vibration elimination has been known for years as a means for improving the sound. I have Mapleshade Micropoint brass footers under my gear, Magico SPOD footers on my speakers, and a 400 pound maple rack to reduce vibrations in the gear.
    Agreed. I think it primarily started with Steve McCormack in the early 90's with his "tip-toe" brass points. But hopefully nobody would argue that designs, materials, methods, executions, and efforts are not all identical or that such things don't matter.
    "The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt and extreme forms of vibration mgmt, the more I’m convinced it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. No, wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy" -me

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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    The best way to isolate components from airborne vibration is to remove them from the room entirely and then deal with any remaining structure-borne vibration. I’m surprised so few people do this, even when building dedicated rooms. I guess we like to look at all the pretty audio jewelry when listening.

    Ralph mentioned DBA - the best treatise I’ve found on the subject is titled ‘multisubs’ and authored by people at Harman.
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    The best way to isolate components from airborne vibration is to remove them from the room entirely and then deal with any remaining structure-borne vibration. I’m surprised so few people do this, even when building dedicated rooms. I guess we like to look at all the pretty audio jewelry when listening.

    Ralph mentioned DBA - the best treatise I’ve found on the subject is titled ‘multisubs’ and authored by people at Harman.
    This is exactly what I have done. I have most of my components in a closet adjacent to my listening room. I am working on controlling structure-borne vibration in the closet as we speak. I will post pics when this is complete.
    Morgan

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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    The best way to isolate components from airborne vibration is to remove them from the room entirely and then deal with any remaining structure-borne vibration. I’m surprised so few people do this, even when building dedicated rooms. I guess we like to look at all the pretty audio jewelry when listening.

    Ralph mentioned DBA - the best treatise I’ve found on the subject is titled ‘multisubs’ and authored by people at Harman.
    I'm curious how exactly does one successfully isolate an object from vibrations. Remove them from the room? How might that be possible since the room is overwhelmed with vibrations i.e. sound?

    Are you not talking about accomplishing the impossible? The world and everything in it consists of vibrations.
    "The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt and extreme forms of vibration mgmt, the more I’m convinced it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. No, wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy" -me

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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    I tell ya, vibrations, have you actually measured the amount of vibrations you get say around a TT, or audio RACK. So simple, get yourself a seismometer app for your phone, like Hamm Seismograp‪h, Vibration analysi‪s‬ by Dmitriy Kharutskiy. for ex. Check before and after you spend the money on expense vibration gear.
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  37. #37

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    I will post a picture later (if I can remember how) of how to lessen bass with a small block of wood.

  38. #38

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by atmasphere View Post
    The biggest problem most people run into with room acoustics is getting the bass right. The usual problem is standing waves in the room, which might allow bass to be almost everywhere except the listening chair. This is a very common problem!

    Its usually something that happens below 80Hz so there is an elegant solution, which is to use something called a Distributed Bass Array. Because your ears cannot acknowledge a sound until the entire waveform has passed by your ear, and because at 80Hz the waveform is 14 feet long, in most rooms this means the bass fundamentals are omnidirectional. Because of this, you can asymmetrically place subwoofers about the room, none of them operating above 80Hz, and thus break up the standing waves, resulting in evenly distributed bass throughout the room. As long as the subs do not have any output above 80Hz they will not attract attention to themselves so your main speakers will be convincing you of where the bass is coming from.

    There are three approaches to dealing with bass problems in a room; the other two are DSP room correction and bass traps. Compared to a DBA, these latter two solutions are about 5% effective. They can fix a peak, but not a null due to cancellation, as a null will need the bass to be boosted. Since cancellation is going on, you can put thousands of watts into that cancellation and not get much in the way of results!

    If your room seems bright, its best to make sure the bass is right first, since if the bass is shy, your ears will tend to tell you things are tilted to the highs which of course they are. Get the bass right and the room might not seem so bright.
    I partially agree. Allow me to explain - It is true that the human ear cannot localize sounds <80Hz, some say even up to 100Hz. However, you can feel the pressure and subs positioning will affect how the bass pressure is felt. For example, subs that are close to the mains provide what I find is the most accurate and uniform pressure for low frequencies, however, subs in close proximity to mains is, in most situations a mess since you exacerbate room modes with added low frequency drivers next to your mains. So there's a compromise.

    WRT sub placement asymmetrically in the room - I agree, but you can't place them simply anywhere in the room. And placement matters not only in width or length but in the height of the sub. This takes significant time and measurements (+ ears to fine tune) IME but yields amazing results when integrated well.

    WRT your 3 approaches and DBA - DSP and bass traps' effectiveness depends on room size and personal preference. For example a Distributed Bass Array would not be practical in a small room, say 10' x 12' since A) You may encounter a lack of free space for placement B) While there are benefits of smoothing out room modes there are usually added reverberations which a small room untreated simply cannot manage. DSP, employed carefully and sparingly can be a wonderful tool. And every and any room will benefit from room treatment including bass traps.

    The answer is use them all: multiple subs + DSP + room treatment used judiciously and in concert is the best way to yield accurate, articulate and even bass. BTW, I use all 3 :-)
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  39. #39
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by sb6 View Post
    I partially agree. Allow me to explain - It is true that the human ear cannot localize sounds <80Hz, some say even up to 100Hz. However, you can feel the pressure and subs positioning will affect how the bass pressure is felt. For example, subs that are close to the mains provide what I find is the most accurate and uniform pressure for low frequencies, however, subs in close proximity to mains is, in most situations a mess since you exacerbate room modes with added low frequency drivers next to your mains. So there's a compromise.

    WRT sub placement asymmetrically in the room - I agree, but you can't place them simply anywhere in the room. And placement matters not only in width or length but in the height of the sub. This takes significant time and measurements (+ ears to fine tune) IME but yields amazing results when integrated well.

    WRT your 3 approaches and DBA - DSP and bass traps' effectiveness depends on room size and personal preference. For example a Distributed Bass Array would not be practical in a small room, say 10' x 12' since A) You may encounter a lack of free space for placement B) While there are benefits of smoothing out room modes there are usually added reverberations which a small room untreated simply cannot manage. DSP, employed carefully and sparingly can be a wonderful tool. And every and any room will benefit from room treatment including bass traps.

    The answer is use them all: multiple subs + DSP + room treatment used judiciously and in concert is the best way to yield accurate, articulate and even bass. BTW, I use all 3 :-)
    The topic is "Biggest Secret Has Been Revealed" having to do with vibration mgmt. Something more than what the usual status quo presumably.

    IMO, the secret has yet to be revealed because it really has to do with extreme forms of electrical mgmt by the use of extreme forms of vibration mgmt. When this is accomplished, far greater percentages of the music info read from a recording and processed through a playbck system, will remain audible at the speaker. Including volumes and volumes of the live performance's ambient info captured in even many inferior recordings such that our listening perspecitve is now somewhere / anywhere in the recording hall. IOW, we're hearing so much more of the live performance that perhaps every last room acoustic anomaly has been completely overshadowed and for all intensive purposes the room is gone. This implies we no longer need to concern ourselves with room acoustic treatments nor do we need to consider "the room" as the most important component anymore.

    In summary, extreme forms of electrical mgmt and extreme forms of vibration mgmt will DRASTICALLY lower a playback system's noise floor so much greater percentages of the music info becomes audible above the much lowered noise floor and as a result completely overshadow most/all room acoustic anomalies whereas with a much raised noise floor the music info must compete head-on with a room's acoustic anomalies. The playback system's noise floor mostly or entirely consists of electrical energy.

    On the other hand and what you and atmosphere are alluding to is another noise floor of sorts. This noise floor (NF) is focused between a given speaker and given room and is acoustic in nature. Move a speaker 1/2-inch here or there and bass notes become audible or inaudible. When a speaker is acoustically dialed in to a given room, we hear a tighter, deeper, more pronounced, more well-defined bass we didn't even know existed or was possible.

    The combination of successfully addressing both of these electrical and acoustical noise floors should negate the need for any room acoustic treatments whatsoever and the thought that the room is the most important component are completely gone. Because when successfully accomplished every last room acoustic anomaly has been so completely overshadowed with more music info now audible from the recording that our ears have been transported to somewhere / anywhere at the recording hall. Even if that perspective is somewhere near the restrooms at the recording hall.

    This fun little in-room video below is not my best example but if you crank it up a bit I think you'll notice that your listening perspective is somewhere at the live concert and at somewhat live concert volume levels. The in-room volume level peaks were around 104-105db.

    Anyway, the topic is "The Biggest Secret Revealed?" and the complete disregard for room acoustic anomalies in a somewhat reasonable room is just one of the many resulting benefits. IMO. And FWIW, 65% of my entire system's retail costs are dedicated solely to extreme forms of electrical and mechanical energy mgmt and I do nothing specifically to address my slightly smaller listening room's (formerly a kitchen) acoustic anomalies. Well, other than spending months or years trying to find an optimal location for my speakers and fine-tuning my subwoofer.

    "The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt and extreme forms of vibration mgmt, the more I’m convinced it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. No, wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy" -me

  40. #40

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stehno View Post

    ...This implies we no longer need to concern ourselves with room acoustic treatments nor do we need to consider "the room" as the most important component anymore.

    The combination of successfully addressing both of these electrical and acoustical noise floors should negate the need for any room acoustic treatments whatsoever and the thought that the room is the most important component are completely gone.
    I have no time to a complete answer now but, WOW!
    I´m not alone in this matter too!



    I´ll be back!

  41. #41

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stehno View Post
    The topic is "Biggest Secret Has Been Revealed" having to do with vibration mgmt. Something more than what the usual status quo presumably.

    IMO, the secret has yet to be revealed because it really has to do with extreme forms of electrical mgmt by the use of extreme forms of vibration mgmt. When this is accomplished, far greater percentages of the music info read from a recording and processed through a playbck system, will remain audible at the speaker. Including volumes and volumes of the live performance's ambient info captured in even many inferior recordings such that our listening perspecitve is now somewhere / anywhere in the recording hall. IOW, we're hearing so much more of the live performance that perhaps every last room acoustic anomaly has been completely overshadowed and for all intensive purposes the room is gone. This implies we no longer need to concern ourselves with room acoustic treatments nor do we need to consider "the room" as the most important component anymore.

    In summary, extreme forms of electrical mgmt and extreme forms of vibration mgmt will DRASTICALLY lower a playback system's noise floor so much greater percentages of the music info becomes audible above the much lowered noise floor. The playback system's noise floor mostly or entirely consists of electrical energy.

    On the other hand and what you and atmosphere are alluding to is another noise floor of sorts. This noise floor (NF) is focused between a given speaker and given room and is acoustic in nature. Move a speaker 1/2-inch here or there and bass notes become audible or inaudible. When a speaker is acoustically dialed in to a given room, we hear a tighter, deeper, more pronounced, more well-defined bass we didn't even know existed or was possible.

    The combination of successfully addressing both of these electrical and acoustical noise floors should negate the need for any room acoustic treatments whatsoever and the thought that the room is the most important component are completely gone. Because when successfully accomplished every last room acoustic anomaly has been so completely overshadowed with more music info now audible from the recording that our ears have been transported to somewhere / anywhere at the recording hall. Even if that perspective is somewhere near the restrooms at the recording hall.

    This fun little in-room video below is not my best example but if you crank it up a bit I think you'll notice that your listening perspective is somewhere at the live concert and at somewhat live concert volume levels. The in-room volume level peaks were around 104-105db.

    Anyway, the topic is "The Biggest Secret Revealed?" and the complete disregard for room acoustic anomalies is just one of the many resulting benefits. IMO. And FWIW, 65% of my entire system's retail costs are dedicated solely to extreme forms of electrical and mechanical energy mgmt and I do nothing specifically to address my slightly smaller listening room's (formerly a kitchen) acoustic anomalies.

    I'm sorry but I can't fully agree. Irrespective of the lowering of the noise floor, sounds waves are sound waves and large sound waves (low freq), especially of higher amplitude in all of our relatively small rooms need to be managed not only for even bass response but for intelligible bass due to excess reverberations. A non - existent noise floor won't stop 10', 20' 30' waves from reverberating and blurring the music. Now, that's not to say that a lower noise floor is not a good thing, but it can't bend the laws of physics and acoustics.
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  42. #42
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    I have no time to a complete answer now but, WOW!
    I´m not alone in this matter too!



    I´ll be back!
    Thanks, Spock. Ummmm, maybe I've been with you in spirit all this time?
    "The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt and extreme forms of vibration mgmt, the more I’m convinced it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. No, wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy" -me

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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by sb6 View Post
    I'm sorry but I can't fully agree. Irrespective of the lowering of the noise floor, sounds waves are sound waves and large sound waves (low freq), especially of higher amplitude in all of our relatively small rooms need to be managed not only for even bass response but for intelligible bass due to excess reverberations. A non - existent noise floor won't stop 10', 20' 30' waves from reverberating and blurring the music. Now, that's not to say that a lower noise floor is not a good thing, but it can't bend the laws of physics and acoustics.
    That's fine. But I've yet to see any acoustic treatment "specialist" or enthusiast provide any audible evidence that acoustic treatments do anything more than make a not-so-tolerable music presentation a bit more tolerable. IMO, this makes sense because acoustic treatements can do nothing to actually improve a playback system's performance. It's impossible. To me, that implies that the room and/or acoustic treatments can only deal with the effects of a playback system's shortcomings (the cause). IME, addressing the effects always consumes far more resources and results in far fewer if any benefits than when addressing the cause. And in this case, acoustic treatments and custom rooms seems to be no exception to that rule and only further substantiate my lmited experiences of dealing with effects vs dealing with causes.

    But please remember that we're actually dealing with two completely separate noise floors here. One is the playback system's much raised noise floor induced entirely? by electrical energy and the other is the speaker / room noise floor induced entirely by acoustics. The only overlap between the two noise floors that I can see is that a playback system's noise floor can influence the acoustic noise floor by allowing more music info to be audible. But the acoustic noise floor should have zero overlap into the playback system's electronics-induced noise floor. For the most part, each has its own areas of responsibility within the playback vineyard but when combining the sonic benefits of both, our playback presentations finally arrive at more of a complete package.

    They might call it laws of physics and acoustics but guess what? So do I. Only I have the sonic evidence to support my claims and they do not. Morevoer, they've never attempted to do what I do, nor have they even tried as they continue adhering to decades old folkore and use inferior methodologies some of which actually violate laws of physics or nature. I do not think I do. IMO, of course.
    "The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt and extreme forms of vibration mgmt, the more I’m convinced it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. No, wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy" -me

  44. #44

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    So, here i am

    First of all

    Quote Originally Posted by Stehno View Post
    Great vídeo, great sound. Like you said, we can “see” the presence of musicians in the room.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stehno View Post
    … but from the sound of one of your vimeo videos on drums it sounds like you're really onto something in that other thread.
    I don't know if you were talking about this song (note that this video was made today)



    What can I say? The air movement in the room and the impact on the body and chest are amazing. I can take the volume as far as I want, but I'm afraid that a driver come loose from the speaker and be fired towards right at my face. But this is not the interesting thing. Naturally, this music has always produced bass in the room. But until a little while ago, everything was shaking, namely a few bottles that I have on top of the furniture. Currently the bass is even more powerful but, because it is more controlled, the bottles no longer sing. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stehno View Post
    … this makes sense because acoustic treatements can do nothing to actually improve a playback system's performance. It's impossible. To me, that implies that the room and/or acoustic treatments can only deal with the effects of a playback system's shortcomings (the cause). IME, addressing the effects always consumes far more resources and results in far fewer if any benefits than when addressing the cause.
    …a playback system's noise floor can influence the acoustic noise floor by allowing more music info to be audible. But the acoustic noise floor should have zero overlap into the playback system's electronics-induced noise floor.
    Ok, may i ask you to listen one vídeo more?



    Can you hear the closing and opening of the microphone as Diana Krall sings or pauses? I think it´s possible to you to hear, listening with headphones, attentively. Here it is absolutely evident. When the microphone is closed, the noise floor (analog recording) is almost silence. When she enters again, or rather a fraction of a second before, the opening of the microphone is clear by increasing the background ssshhhhhh. But what does it matter? Everything! The micro detail increases the feeling of realism and presence in the room. As you say and well, the background silence in musical reproduction is of the utmost importance. When this revealing silence is obtained, everything is more correct. It improves the detail, improves the contrast between instruments, making the tone more correct, increasing the sensation of realism.


    As for the acoustic treatment, in my opinion, the main thing is to eliminate the echo. And it can be done with ordinary furniture. I leave a challenge to anyone who has complaints from his room; do you have any instrument at home? A guitar? A cello? How does this instrument sound in this room, since the audio system is apparently hampered by the acoustics?

  45. #45
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Spock View Post
    So, here i am

    First of all



    Great vídeo, great sound. Like you said, we can “see” the presence of musicians in the room.



    I don't know if you were talking about this song (note that this video was made today)



    What can I say? The air movement in the room and the impact on the body and chest are amazing. I can take the volume as far as I want, but I'm afraid that a driver come loose from the speaker and be fired towards right at my face. But this is not the interesting thing. Naturally, this music has always produced bass in the room. But until a little while ago, everything was shaking, namely a few bottles that I have on top of the furniture. Currently the bass is even more powerful but, because it is more controlled, the bottles no longer sing. Why?



    Ok, may i ask you to listen one vídeo more?



    Can you hear the closing and opening of the microphone as Diana Krall sings or pauses? I think it´s possible to you to hear, listening with headphones, attentively. Here it is absolutely evident. When the microphone is closed, the noise floor (analog recording) is almost silence. When she enters again, or rather a fraction of a second before, the opening of the microphone is clear by increasing the background ssshhhhhh. But what does it matter? Everything! The micro detail increases the feeling of realism and presence in the room. As you say and well, the background silence in musical reproduction is of the utmost importance. When this revealing silence is obtained, everything is more correct. It improves the detail, improves the contrast between instruments, making the tone more correct, increasing the sensation of realism.


    As for the acoustic treatment, in my opinion, the main thing is to eliminate the echo. And it can be done with ordinary furniture. I leave a challenge to anyone who has complaints from his room; do you have any instrument at home? A guitar? A cello? How does this instrument sound in this room, since the audio system is apparently hampered by the acoustics?
    Thanks for your comments. You've got good sound going all around. You've obviously been busy.

    Just a little clarification. I never said anything about the presence of musicians in my listening room. That's the last thing I'd hope to ever hear. My hope is that my listening perspective has been transformed out of the room and somewhere / anywhere into the recording hall. That's actually quite important if a playback presentation is to have any means of believability. Much the same with background silence. I never mentioned it, sorry. If I've performed due diligence, then there should never be 1ms of black background as hopefully the entire presentation is loaded with volumes of the recording hall's ambient info captured at the recording so there's always something audible going on.

    My headphones are not of the best quality so I'm unable to hear fine detail like microphones switching. I just advanced from Apple's wired earbuds about a week ago.

    Diana's voice sounds wonderful. You also had fabulous recording on your other page talking about service panels and fuses.

    Sure select furnishing are always good or certain treatments you don't want the furnishings. Hope I wasn't misleading as I think any reasonable room should/must have at a minmum some type of carpeting/rug and pad and some select furishings.

    I still have to read your other page talking about electrical things in more detail. Like I said, you've really got something going on there.

    This recording is always a fun piece for bass and guitar. Well, if you crank it.
    "The more I dabble with extreme forms of electrical mgmt and extreme forms of vibration mgmt, the more I’m convinced it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. Or was it all just variations of managing electrical energy? No, it’s all just variations of managing mechanical energy. No, wait. It's all just variations of managing electrical energy" -me

  46. #46
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stehno View Post
    Agreed. I think it primarily started with Steve McCormack in the early 90's with his "tip-toe" brass points. But hopefully nobody would argue that designs, materials, methods, executions, and efforts are not all identical or that such things don't matter.
    It did not start with the Mod Squad. Again, my Scully lathe, built in the late 1940s or early 1950s employed adjustable 'tip toes' on the feet of the table for the lathe. It also used an anti-vibration platform for the lathe as well.

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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by atmasphere View Post
    It did not start with the Mod Squad. Again, my Scully lathe, built in the late 1940s or early 1950s employed adjustable 'tip toes' on the feet of the table for the lathe. It also used an anti-vibration platform for the lathe as well.
    What does that have to do with audio sound reproduction?
    Bud

    Lumin X1 file player
    Sony XA-5400ES SACD
    Pass XP-22 pre, X600.5 amps
    Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers, SPOD spikes

    Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR for source, Denali 2000 (2) for amps
    Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
    Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables

    Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
    Three 20 amp circuits.

  48. #48

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    What does that have to do with audio sound reproduction?
    it's an on-going learning curve that applies across code as in application. bit like mep...

  49. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    St. Paul, MN
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    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFox View Post
    What does that have to do with audio sound reproduction?
    Vibration control. It reduces distortion. Isn't that what this thread is about?

  50. #50
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    276

    Re: The biggest secret has been revealed?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stehno View Post
    I'm curious how exactly does one successfully isolate an object from vibrations. Remove them from the room? How might that be possible since the room is overwhelmed with vibrations i.e. sound?

    Are you not talking about accomplishing the impossible? The world and everything in it consists of vibrations.
    The only way to eliminate the effects of airborne vibrations is to remove all your equipment from your listening room and place it in an adjacent room with good acoustic isolation. Except for the speakers, of course. With modern remotes this is easy to do.

    The remaining structure borne vibrations can then be addressed with combinations of mass and isolation.

    Acoustic isolation of 40 dB is practical, and structural isolation techniques like ‘room within a room’ and isolation feet on the loudspeakers can reduce structure borne vibration to a minimum.

    This is far more effective than tube dampers, vibration funneling mechanical diodes like still points, isolation racks, etc.
    Tom

    Audio:
    Amati Futura Mains
    Amati Homage VOX Center,
    Proac Response 1sc Rears,
    Three MC2301's for L,C,R
    MC 602 for the rears
    C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
    Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
    SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC

    Video:
    MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.

    Lake House:
    Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3

    OnDeck:
    McIntosh MAC 4300v

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