Momentum HD vs Arc Ref40 Preamp

Duplicate post
 
Last edited:
Marck1973 said:
Hi,

So I managed to obtain a demo unit and had this in place for a week or so before it was returned to the dealer, hence I wanted to provide an update.

The look, build and quality of the unit was amazing – the meter for the volume control was just superb.

So in some areas I thought the preamp was excellent, such as the detail and control. The bass was much better focussed too. These were definitely better than the ARC Ref40 unit.

However, the soundstage was not that large to start with and although it did improve over the initial couple of days, it never really opened up. The soundstage was always limited between the speakers – the system had lost its air, naturalness and sparkle. It sounded maybe more accurate but more clinical.

We swapped the ARC back at the end and the soundstage and airiness returned (minus that detail and control to some extent).

In summary and being honest I was actually disappointed. I had expected the D’Agostino to excel in all areas and simply blow the ARC away, but it didn’t.

I did query with the local distributor if this was what they expected or if there happened to be any other issue (such as compatibility of some type) that caused my above findings. The only response was that it was not valves and hence possibly the difference in presentation.

Although this is true, I used to have the ARC Ref250SE amplifiers before the Momentum M400’s and the M400’s were substantially better than the ARC in every way, valves or no valves!

Has anyone else found this when trying the preamp? Any other ideas welcome! I am kind of wanting to re-try again when we are back to a more normal way of life and have the distributor here so he can come and hear it.

Thanks and stay safe
M.
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Hi M.

This sort of does not surprise me, although I would have hoped the HD woukd have been a lot better as well.

Great tube pre amps excel in soundstage, air , sparkle and 3d like depth it's hard to go back to SS preamps after you have lived & breathed this in your system.

I recently compared the Dag Progression pre amp with my cj GAT - The Progression has a higher retail price. the Progression sounded nice and by itself was very enjoyable, but putting back the GAT added life to all music and with similar transparency .
My friend like the Dag as it was smoother in the top end- to me it was be a bit more muted and boring.


cheers
 
Marck1973 said:
Hi,

So I managed to obtain a demo unit and had this in place for a week or so before it was returned to the dealer, hence I wanted to provide an update.

The look, build and quality of the unit was amazing – the meter for the volume control was just superb.

So in some areas I thought the preamp was excellent, such as the detail and control. The bass was much better focussed too. These were definitely better than the ARC Ref40 unit.

However, the soundstage was not that large to start with and although it did improve over the initial couple of days, it never really opened up. The soundstage was always limited between the speakers – the system had lost its air, naturalness and sparkle. It sounded maybe more accurate but more clinical.

We swapped the ARC back at the end and the soundstage and airiness returned (minus that detail and control to some extent).

In summary and being honest I was actually disappointed. I had expected the D’Agostino to excel in all areas and simply blow the ARC away, but it didn’t.

I did query with the local distributor if this was what they expected or if there happened to be any other issue (such as compatibility of some type) that caused my above findings. The only response was that it was not valves and hence possibly the difference in presentation.

Although this is true, I used to have the ARC Ref250SE amplifiers before the Momentum M400’s and the M400’s were substantially better than the ARC in every way, valves or no valves!

Has anyone else found this when trying the preamp? Any other ideas welcome! I am kind of wanting to re-try again when we are back to a more normal way of life and have the distributor here so he can come and hear it.

Thanks and stay safe
M.
Click to expand...

Hi Marc,

You may want to hold out for the ARC Ref 50, which is due out this year for ARC’s 50th anniversary. I owned the ARC Ref 10 and its dimensionality, huge soundstage and powerful dynamics are hard to beat in a preamp.

Best of Luck,
Ken
 
Hi Ken,

Thanks for the update, so are ARC definitely doing an anniversary preamp this year? Any idea on pricing?!

I have compared my preamp to the current Ref10 and tbh I prefer mine - they did something in the anniversary edition which is superior (in my view) to the actual full production run. I know that they lost money on the anniversary preamp - it was more of a show of what they can produce (in a limited supply).

Rgds
Marc.

Alpinist said:
Hi Marc,

You may want to hold out for the ARC Ref 50, which is due out this year for ARC’s 50th anniversary. I owned the ARC Ref 10 and its dimensionality, huge soundstage and powerful dynamics are hard to beat in a preamp.

Best of Luck,
Ken
Click to expand...
 
Exactly my view, I thought it would still surpass the ARC in every area.

I am aware that Dan has always focussed on amplifiers (Krell days etc) and ARC has always been known really for this preamps, so shouldn't be surprised really, however I was still disappointed.

Did your friend also comment on soundstage?

The Ref50 could be interesting....

Take care
M.
XV-1 said:
Hi M.

This sort of does not surprise me, although I would have hoped the HD woukd have been a lot better as well.

Great tube pre amps excel in soundstage, air , sparkle and 3d like depth it's hard to go back to SS preamps after you have lived & breathed this in your system.

I recently compared the Dag Progression pre amp with my cj GAT - The Progression has a higher retail price. the Progression sounded nice and by itself was very enjoyable, but putting back the GAT added life to all music and with similar transparency .
My friend like the Dag as it was smoother in the top end- to me it was be a bit more muted and boring.


cheers
Click to expand...
 
Marck1973 said:
Exactly my view, I thought it would still surpass the ARC in every area.

I am aware that Dan has always focussed on amplifiers (Krell days etc) and ARC has always been known really for this preamps, so shouldn't be surprised really, however I was still disappointed.

Did your friend also comment on soundstage?

The Ref50 could be interesting....

Take care
M.
Click to expand...

LOL. My friend is no audiophile, so listening with him is generally some beers just enjoying the music - I was surprised he noticed that difference.

If you can get a demo of a GAT2, try it out. Or hold out for the REF50

cheers
 
Your findings aren't that surprising to me. A few years ago I purchased the new Mark Levinson No536 mono blocks and the No52 Ref preamp. They sounded amazing together but then last year got a chance to try a BAT Rex II in place of the Levinson preamp and well ... sold the Levinson as the RexII had the warmth and presence the Levinson did not. The Bat Rex II is a two box 18 tube preamp(only 16 active). Enjoy your ARC and the 50th Anniversary might be really special and I plan to audition that also but BAT did just release the Rex III. It never ends .....

George
 
Marck1973 said:
Exactly my view, I thought it would still surpass the ARC in every area.

I am aware that Dan has always focussed on amplifiers (Krell days etc) and ARC has always been known really for this preamps, so shouldn't be surprised really, however I was still disappointed.

Did your friend also comment on soundstage?

The Ref50 could be interesting....

Take care
M.
Click to expand...

Hi Marck,
I see on another forum that you have decided to pull the trigger and go with the Momentum HD. Good for you! I am not missing my “forever” Ref 40 in the least. Let me know what you think once the Momentum HD has settled in your system. I suspect you had another go at it before deciding. I know you were originally dissatisfied with soundstaging the first time around.
 
Milt said:
Hi Marck,
I see on another forum that you have decided to pull the trigger and go with the Momentum HD. Good for you! I am not missing my “forever” Ref 40 in the least. Let me know what you think once the Momentum HD has settled in your system. I suspect you had another go at it before deciding. I know you were originally dissatisfied with soundstaging the first time around.
Click to expand...

The Momentum HD is amazing - building off the already stellar Momentum, I am hearing more refinement allowing for beautiful presentation - things have gotten into holographic territory really complimenting the 400s. Keeping the pairing will gain you sound quality in spade. Why, they are designed to support one another.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Hi Milt et al,

So you are quite correct I have now swapped out my Ref40 for the Momentum HD preamplifier. Sorry for the delay in providing an update!

As I mentioned above I was always surprised that on initial review it did not perform anywhere near what I expected. Something kept on at me that there must have been an issue. The only thing that was not changed was my Transparent cables. So I contacted Transparent and enquired what would happen if I used my existing cables (which were tuned for valves) on the D'Agostino. There response was that it would make a significant difference...

On that basis I asked again to borrow the preamp but this time borrow some Transparent cables that had been configured for solid state (and specifically the D'Agostino equipment). After a few weeks I managed to get the loan piece back with the said cables.

As soon as we turned the system on it was like a WOW moment. The system sounded just amazing (and that with it still being cold!). The soundstage issue that I reported previously was not an issue now. Infact if anything it was more accurate and focussed. The vocals were so powerful, as if the performer was standing in my room.

The realism and naturalness that the system was portraying was simply at another level to the ARC preamp. I always thought this is where the valves would win the battle against the solid state, however in this case it was not. Infact in every area the Momentum was simply superior to the Ref40.

So long story short, I now have my own Momentum HD, installed a couple of weeks back. I also have my cables reconfigured. The system is running in, it has about 150 hours so far, and continues to improve. To say I am delighted is an understatement. I would say that I am done and no more changes will ever be made, however we all know how that ends up 😄.

Take care and stay safe
Marc.
 
Congrats Marc, perseverance usually pays off in the end. I had a similar experience when I added Dragon Source power cords to my Select 2 DAC.

Enjoy,
Ken
 
Congrats Marc. It’s been interesting to follow your journey. Enjoy the new preamp in good health.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Congrats !

A friend of mine, who has M400 monos, also changed the ARC Ref 6 to Momentum Pre and couldn't be happier.
 
Thank you Mike. It has been a bit of a journey, although the ending makes it well worth it. Many happy minutes, hours, days, weeks, months and years of listening to music ahead 😄
 
Elberoth said:
Congrats !

A friend of mine, who has M400 monos, also changed the ARC Ref 6 to Momentum Pre and couldn't be happier.
Click to expand...

It is certainly a significant step up, but being fair to the ARC, which is great preamp, the Momentum is several times the cost of the ARC so I would hope that it does surpass it.
 
Marck1973 said:
It is certainly a significant step up, but being fair to the ARC, which is great preamp, the Momentum is several times the cost of the ARC so I would hope that it does surpass it.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Having had ARC preamps for 25 years, I have nothing but respect for their products, particularly their preamps. And because of that I was really surprised that someone known for amplifiers could come up with such an outstanding preamp. Well done Dan! And congratulations Marck.
 
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