Pre-amp combo for new 802 diamond and mcintosh 452

T

Tripp

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So I have finally bought mcintosh 452 and 802 diamond arriving next month-mid. Now I have some waiting time in hand & need some suggestions around pre- amp combo.
My final purpose will be to build hybrid system for a good stereo n home theatre. Once, I know which direction to go I can then plan my budget around it and save $$$ accordingly
I currently have my old pioneer lx75 av receiver 180x2 in 9 channels and bdp105 (new). I also have bowers 686 front surrounds n another jamo floor standers which will be used as back surrounds, no center channel yet unless I use 684's pair for center, also burson conductor ( headphone amp/pre-amp/ DAC), while 802s and 452 are still a month away
Future plan is to get all diamonds as surrounds 805/804's n one of the center HTM's and a multichannel power amp 5 channel to make it all come together along with a good preamp in a 7.1 setup.
Option 1
For now may be I just use oppo 105 or burson conductor or pioneer AVR as pre amp to power 452 n use that in stereo mode or multi-channel with AVR. Please suggest which is the best option of 3 and why

Option 2
Sell my pioneer AVR and buy a better more powerful AV receiver or buy a separate pre-amp and another multi channel power amp.. Budget is still low for another multichannel power amp or Classe/mcintosh preamps, but all recommendations welcome.

Option 3
Buy an Emotiva Xpa-1 Pre-amp with Emotiva XPA-5 to power 7.1 system- both are in my price range…Any one heard them at all?? Emotiva products are very much in reach from their price/value point of view as long as they don't deteriorate my current system

Thank you in advance
 
What is your budget?

I would consider buying a tube preamp with a home theater by pass switch so that you can connect your AVR's preamp out's to the 452 and use that for HT and the tube preamp for 2ch music if music is your main focus. Many of today's 2ch preamps come with a Home Theater by pass.
 
I don't think stuff like Pioneer will make the Diamonds sing. From experience I know that having a fast and powerful amplifier make a huge difference. The pre-amp is more taste I would say.
 
The reco for a bypass is my choice. If you find a very good preamp that you like, it will see so many gear changes & still remain.
 
By the way. Several months ago I was preamp shopping and got to hear an Atma-Sphere MP-3 tube preamp and an ARC LS-27 with the Mc 452 driving a pair of Magnepan 3.7's. We compared it to an MC 2300 or 2500 preamp and both the MP-3 and LS-27 sounded much more refined and detailed, more hi-fi if you will compared to the Mc which was way out classed. Even the dealer thought so. The shop owner and I preferred the sound of the MP-3 over the ARC which cost $3,000 more. The mid range on the MP-3 was better but the ARC had a little more detail and air. I eventually ended up with a used BAT VK-51se preamp, too good a deal to turn down.
 
Mechnutt said:
What is your budget?

I would consider buying a tube preamp with a home theater by pass switch so that you can connect your AVR's preamp out's to the 452 and use that for HT and the tube preamp for 2ch music if music is your main focus. Many of today's 2ch preamps come with a Home Theater by pass.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your reply, my budget is low and just around 3K to 4K USD max, in New Zealand everything double in terms of cost with shipping and other dramas... if I wait longer I will be able to save more……By the way, do you actually mean, connecting Oppo 105 via RCA to Pioneer Pre-amp and then pioneer to Mcintosh…?? I have an option of connecting via XLR directly from Oppo to Mcintosh as well just for stereo listening. Would that be really too bad to try ? Initial plan was to connect xlr for music and also connect Oppo via RCA to Pioneer for HT purpose...

I luv the idea of tube pre-amp but I don't think I can get one at that low price as yet
 
Glareskin said:
I don't think stuff like Pioneer will make the Diamonds sing. From experience I know that having a fast and powerful amplifier make a huge difference. The pre-amp is more taste I would say.
Click to expand...

Cant agree more, thats why I bought macintosh 452 to power 802's but now pre-amp is a big question. Is pioneer really bad as a pre-amp or even Oppo 105 in that case…?? In long run, most likely one of Mcintosh or Classe for pre-amp would do the justice….or any other tube pre-amp…Anyone heard Emotiva XMC-1, its quiet in my price reach and 7.1 channel pre-amp
 
Mechnutt said:
By the way. Several months ago I was preamp shopping and got to hear an Atma-Sphere MP-3 tube preamp and an ARC LS-27 with the Mc 452 driving a pair of Magnepan 3.7's. We compared it to an MC 2300 or 2500 preamp and both the MP-3 and LS-27 sounded much more refined and detailed, more hi-fi if you will compared to the Mc which was way out classed. Even the dealer thought so. The shop owner and I preferred the sound of the MP-3 over the ARC which cost $3,000 more. The mid range on the MP-3 was better but the ARC had a little more detail and air. I eventually ended up with a used BAT VK-51se preamp, too good a deal to turn down.
Click to expand...
Thank you, might be an issue to find these pre-amp's locally. Thank you for your advise I will research these pre-amps to check their availability
 
Well, you now have a McIntosh 452. It was a stretch, but you got there and your heart is fluttering with your new pride of ownership. A formidable fully balanced amplifier that will last you for many many years to come.

I agree with the others above, that a tube pre-amp with a passthru (unity) feature for home theatre is the way to go as it will also serve as a core foundation component to your system. Home theatre AV processors come and go but a matching tube pre-amp will be with you for a very long time if you make the right choice. Tube for 2-ch and home theatre? Absolutely!!

You have THE balanced stereo amp. There is only one choice here when it comes to matching a fully balanced tube pre-amp with the MC452. Why tube? It will give you a sprinkle of tube magic on top of that wonderful solid state amp with the huge damping factor that you already own.

I recommend that you stretch for the McIntosh C500T. You will be glad to have made the right choice once and from the beginning.

Go go for it and once again congratulations for making a smart purchase with the MC452.
 
Tripp said:
Thank you for your reply, my budget is low and just around 3K to 4K USD max, in New Zealand everything double in terms of cost with shipping and other dramas... if I wait longer I will be able to save more……By the way, do you actually mean, connecting Oppo 105 via RCA to Pioneer Pre-amp and then pioneer to Mcintosh…?? I have an option of connecting via XLR directly from Oppo to Mcintosh as well just for stereo listening. Would that be really too bad to try ? Initial plan was to connect xlr for music and also connect Oppo via RCA to Pioneer for HT purpose...

I luv the idea of tube pre-amp but I don't think I can get one at that low price as yet
Click to expand...

With a Home Theater by pass feature, you connect your Oppo to the Pioneer and the Preamp output (of your front channel speakers if that is what you are using) to an input on your 2ch Preamp and turn on the HT by pass feature. What it does is by pass all the internal circuits in the 2ch preamp and passes the Pioneer signal to the MC amp, which allows the Pioneer to function as a the preamp for home theater purposes.
 
Here are some great deals on some tube preamps that probably could be shipped to you that have a HT bypass.

Cary Audio SLP 03 new in the box with real Mullard tubes included! -
Upscale Audio

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tu...-old-2015-01-26-preamplifiers-85750-tucson-az

The above Conrad Johnson ET-3se I believe is from a dealer and I believe he ships world wide. I almost bought this model. The reviews are great. I believe it has a HT bypass.

avahifi - Fet Valve CF Vacuum Tube Preamplifier

This Primaluna is another excellent preamp-
http://www.primaluna-usa.com/product-main/dl-prem-series/dl-prempre#info

Here are some reviews on the AVA preamp-

Audio by Van Alstine FET Valve CF Vacuum Tube Preamplifier Review - HomeTheaterHiFi.com

Audio by Van Alstine FET Valve CF Preamplifier | The Absolute Sound

The AVA preamp is a great sounding preamp. (this is a full tube preamp not a hybrid like the web page states, the Hybrid was the older model) I own an older AVA tube preamp and tube DAC. They are a lot of bang for the buck and built to last. I have written some reviews of AVA gear in the past and live 3 minutes from Frank Van Alstine and have been to his house where each unit is custom built. He Ships world wide and he has the best customer service in the business. He has a large following on the Audio Circles forum and he always answers his phone so you can talk to him directly. The FET can be ordered with a HT by pass switch.

How ever, if I had my pick I would go with the Conrad Johnson or the Cary which is an excellent preamp.
 
Mechnutt said:
With a Home Theater by pass feature, you connect your Oppo to the Pioneer and the Preamp output (of your front channel speakers if that is what you are using) to an input on your 2ch Preamp and turn on the HT by pass feature. What it does is by pass all the internal circuits in the 2ch preamp and passes the Pioneer signal to the MC amp, which allows the Pioneer to function as a the preamp for home theater purposes.
Click to expand...

Generally so. McIntosh pre-amps still process the signal via its line stage (and its line stage tubes) in passthru mode. When in passthru mode (unity gain mode), volume levels (or any other re-equalisation feature) are disabled as the signal is passed through. If anything, the signal is altered for the better and certainly different tubes rolled-in present different results!
 
Steve said:
Well, you now have a McIntosh 452. It was a stretch, but you got there and your heart is fluttering with your new pride of ownership. A formidable fully balanced amplifier that will last you for many many years to come.

I agree with the others above, that a tube pre-amp with a passthru (unity) feature for home theatre is the way to go as it will also serve as a core foundation component to your system. Home theatre AV processors come and go but a matching tube pre-amp will be with you for a very long time if you make the right choice. Tube for 2-ch and home theatre? Absolutely!!

You have THE balanced stereo amp. There is only one choice here when it comes to matching a fully balanced tube pre-amp with the MC452. Why tube? It will give you a sprinkle of tube magic on top of that wonderful solid state amp with the huge damping factor that you already own.

I recommend that you stretch for the McIntosh C500T. You will be glad to have made the right choice once and from the beginning.

Go go for it and once again congratulations for making a smart purchase with the MC452.
Click to expand...
Thanks Steve, you were directly speaking to my heart right now….thank you…you are right Mcintosh 452 was way over my league.. and it sure will take sometime for me to recover…As much as I am desperate to buy a pre-amp to make it sound good.. I don't want to make a wrong choice. You and many other's in the room will agree that people can easily loose a lot of money in finally getting what they want to buy…..Thats why I bought Mc452…Re- preamps my knowledge is pathetic…you have recommended another macintosh pre-amp costing as much as mc452….Its beyond my reach for now…a year later may be : ), but if you may allow me to ask..is their much difference between mc2500 and mcc500T…?? Is one tube amp a lot different to other tube preamp…basically expensive preamp vs not so expensive preamp…would classe ssp800 be a bad match ?? I can get classe products at much better price…cheers steve
 
Mechnutt said:
Here are some great deals on some tube preamps that probably could be shipped to you that have a HT bypass.

Cary Audio SLP 03 new in the box with real Mullard tubes included! -
Upscale Audio

Conrad johnson ET-3 SE LESS THAN ONE MONTH OLD | Tube | Tucson, Arizona 85750 | AudiogoN - The High-end Audio Community

The above Conrad Johnson ET-3se I believe is from a dealer and I believe he ships world wide. I almost bought this model. The reviews are great. I believe it has a HT bypass.

avahifi - Fet Valve CF Vacuum Tube Preamplifier

This Primaluna is another excellent preamp-
DiaLogue Premium Preamplifier

Here are some reviews on the AVA preamp-

Audio by Van Alstine FET Valve CF Vacuum Tube Preamplifier Review - HomeTheaterHiFi.com

Audio by Van Alstine FET Valve CF Preamplifier | The Absolute Sound

The AVA preamp is a great sounding preamp. (this is a full tube preamp not a hybrid like the web page states, the Hybrid was the older model) I own an older AVA tube preamp and tube DAC. They are a lot of bang for the buck and built to last. I have written some reviews of AVA gear in the past and live 3 minutes from Frank Van Alstine and have been to his house where each unit is custom built. He Ships world wide and he has the best customer service in the business. He has a large following on the Audio Circles forum and he always answers his phone so you can talk to him directly. The FET can be ordered with a HT by pass switch.

How ever, if I had my pick I would go with the Conrad Johnson or the Cary which is an excellent preamp.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much..You have given me more then I bargained for…. I have now located a cary audio local dealer, I will get in touch with him tomorrow to check out some prices…Would you just recommend tube pre with my macintosh 452 ??thank you
 
Steve said:
Generally so. McIntosh pre-amps still process the signal via its line stage (and its line stage tubes) in passthru mode. When in passthru mode (unity gain mode), volume levels (or any other re-equalisation feature) are disabled as the signal is passed through. If anything, the signal is altered for the better and certainly different tubes rolled-in present different results!
Click to expand...
Thanks Steve, you must have come across preamps other then macintosh which sounded nice with 452 - I mean, does it have to be a tube pre ..?? please again ignore my ignorance…i am just seeking and attempting to understand the difference. Not much here to listen and compare thank you
 
Tripp said:
Thank you very much..You have given me more then I bargained for…. I have now located a cary audio local dealer, I will get in touch with him tomorrow to check out some prices…Would you just recommend tube pre with my macintosh 452 ??thank you
Click to expand...

Tripp, there are excellent SS preamps and quite a few that I would not mind owning but I am sold on tubes. Give some thought to that Conrad Johnson ET-3se that I posted. I would take it over the Cary any day of the week, its that good. When shopping locally for a preamp, consider bringing in your Mc amp to your local shop and trying it out with different preamps if they don't have good return policy's.

Conrad Johnson ET3SE Preamplifier ? Reviews | TONEAudio MAGAZINE

Conrad-johnson ET3SE (£4920) - Pre/power amplifiers

Living in NZ consider looking for a used Plinius Preamp if going SS. I really like their gear although I have only heard their amps.
 
Tripp said:
Cant agree more, thats why I bought macintosh 452 to power 802's but now pre-amp is a big question. Is pioneer really bad as a pre-amp or even Oppo 105 in that case…?? In long run, most likely one of Mcintosh or Classe for pre-amp would do the justice….or any other tube pre-amp…Anyone heard Emotiva XMC-1, its quiet in my price reach and 7.1 channel pre-amp
Click to expand...

If you can do an in home demo of a Classe' pre with your 452, I would highly recommend that you give it a try.
 
Another option that should be well within budget (2K USD) is the Wyred4Sound STP-SE preamp. When I was auditioning amps, I tried this with the 452 and it was a very nice match. It may not be much to look at, but sounds great, is priced well and has home theater bypass capability.
 
Yet another opinion & recommendation for a tubed linestage with balanced functionality and bypass...Aesthetix Calypso (lightly used or new depending on budget) which can be a tube rollers delight if wanted.

I've not experienced the Calypso with Mc-power amps so can't say what that synergy (or lack of) there might be but the Calypso is one sweet linestage preamp.
 
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