Want to improve your analog (vinyl) sound?

I guess I don't want to improve my analog vinyl sound then.

And why not Eric?

NorthStar said:

And why not Eric?

Click to expand...

Because with those items your telling me that my Phonomena 2 is junk and that my cleaning skills are completely ineffective and in order to improve my analog vinyl sound I have to spend $8K on things that do the same thing as what I already have? ($8k is a big chunk of my non-discretionary salary). In other words, I wasted hard-earned $1600 on my stuff that I thought was working very well? If the diminishing returns (something I fear greatly) are that heavy with what I have, I can hardly imagine what they would be with $8k worth of stuff. I get so much flak for not having "the right gear" (whatever it is for the week) that I start to think about just chucking it in and taking it all to goodwill and calling it a day in spite of the fact that I don't seem to be having any problems with doing it's job. (I'd keep my vintage system of course, got to have something).

Eric, I know some peoples who won't even read them reviews.

* Just for clarification: I'm not telling you anything. I put a question mark on my thread's title, and provided two links.
And I certainly did not say that your cleaning skills are completely ineffective; you did.

And you spend what you can afford, not what the reviews imply to from your own interpretation.

_______________

By the way, this subject got me banned for life earlier today from another audio forum!
If someone wants to know the exact truth, I can start a thread about it. But this thread right here ain't it.

NorthStar said:

Eric, I know some peoples who won't even read them reviews.

* Just for clarification: I'm not telling you anything. I put a question mark on my thread's title, and provided two links.
And I certainly did not say that your cleaning skills are completely ineffective; you did.

Click to expand...

I'm one of those people who don't read "professional" reviews because I am cynical and highly skeptical which I call a survival technique and it serves me well. I know you didn't tell me anything directly obviously, but I kind of took it not how you meant because of the wording of the title, that's all. If it weren't for the ease of that translation I would not have even looked at it because I don't read professional reviews, they have no value at all to me. The more anyone points me to professional reviews of any piece of gear or on anything at all the less interested I get in the item to the point of complete turn off. I had a local dealer once that started doing that on an item I was very interested in and in 10 minutes of showing me "glowing" reviews in audio magazines I had become completely turned off permanently. I'm more interested in owner experience and even more importantly seeing for myself. The downside to that is that I don't have the chance in any form to see most items for myself. If I did, I probably would not be quite as cynical, but no promises there as it is in my DNA. I either need to learn to relax real quick or walk away from this hobby/interest.

I'm one of those people who don't read "professional" reviews ...

Click to expand...

Maybe not but you sure love to talk about though.

_________________

It's ok Eric. ...Me I have read them (the two above reviews) among a trillion more (over the last 45 years); and when I asked if the Klaudio recording machine was revolutionary and indispensable for serious analog audiophiles, plus if there was some less expensive alternatives out there, my post got deleted!

It goes without saying that I was very upset. ...And I asked that it been restored immediately.
...No need for PMs and explanations as my post was totally correct and my few questions totally appropriate, respectful, polite, and perfectly honest and considerate.

Then I got banned for life! ...For having violating the TOS (rules); but nothing else!
...Which goddamn rule! ...The rule of being nice and asking intelligent questions??!!!

Today's a sad day for the audio community.

__________________

P.S. When I said in another post (yesterday) that the film 'Enough Said' seems to be a fine film,
and that I won't miss it when it comes to Blu-ray; that post too got deleted!

And Gary (GaryProtein) is the member who I was replying to in saying that: "Of course you do like movies Gary."
...Because Gary saw that movie about two weeks ago and he enjoyed it, and he said to Steve:
"See, some movies I do like." ... in a jovial way (good humor) to Steve.

* I am so tired of being wrongly mistreated like this! This is no friendly atmosphere at all; it is totally stressing and disturbing and emotionally draining!
The weirdest thing is this though: for the major part of the time everything's just fine. ...Several great members and all that cool jazz.

Sorry Eric, and everyone. I am totally devastated and heartbroken. This is no way to be acting in such nasty manner. You don't treat anyone like that. And it hurts real deep in the heart of good people.

-> I'm good now, back on topic with that magnificent review by Myles on the Klaudio Record Cleaning Machine, and the other review by Jim on that superb Wadax Preamplifier with integrated Phono Stage.

NorthStar said:

Maybe not but you sure love to talk about though.

_________________

It's ok Eric. ...Me I have read them (the two above reviews) among a trillion more (over the last 45 years); and when I asked if the Klaudio recording machine was revolutionary and indispensable for serious analog audiophiles, plus if there was some less expensive alternatives out there, my post got deleted!

It goes without saying that I was very upset. ...And I asked that it been restored immediately.
...No need for PMs and explanations as my post was totally correct and my few questions totally appropriate, respectful, polite, and perfectly honest and considerate.

Then I got banned for life! ...For having violating the TOS (rules); but nothing else!
...Which goddamn rule! ...The rule of being nice and asking intelligent questions??!!!

Today's a sad day for the audio community.

__________________

P.S. When I said in another post (yesterday) that the film 'Enough Said' seems to be a fine film,
and that I won't miss it when it comes to Blu-ray; that post too got deleted!

And Gary (GaryProtein) is the member who I was replying to in saying that: "Of course you do like movies Gary."
...Because Gary saw that movie about two weeks ago and he enjoyed it, and he said to Steve:
"See, some movies I do like." ... in a jovial way (good humor) to Steve.

* I am so tired of being wrongly mistreated like this! This is no friendly atmosphere at all; it is totally stressing and disturbing and emotionally draining!
The weirdest thing is this though: for the major part of the time everything's just fine. ...Several great members and all that cool jazz.

Sorry Eric, and everyone. I am totally devastated and heartbroken. This is no way to be acting in such nasty manner. You don't treat anyone like that. And it hurts real deep in the heart of good people.

-> I'm good now, back on topic with that magnificent review by Myles on the Klaudio Record Cleaning Machine, and the other review by Jim on that superb Wadax Preamplifier with integrated Phono Stage.

Click to expand...

I went the rounds on that RCM before as well. I have no problem with anyone owning one of those $4k jobs and saying how much they enjoy it and all that and I'm sure it is justified at certain points as well without question. That's great and all. What I do mind is being put down for having questions about it because someone claims that every other method of cleaning is junk or ineffective and if your not using one of these then your stupid or something. I come in to try to put that claim into perspective for the 99% of us who can't afford to even dream about one, but are doing their best and getting just as nice results with a different method. (Perhaps though, I may be the only one in the "rest of us" category). All I seem to get in return is references to some magazine advertising it or what usually follows is getting told that my studied and tried methods don't work while I'm sitting there listening to the proof that they do. This is part of the reason I insist that I am not an audiophile, because it just seems an audiophile is someone who's goal it is to spend more than they take in on some piece of gear to try to justify it by putting others down who don't follow the same suit. It also makes me feel like I should not be listening to music or anything because I'm not a first class citizen or something.

I hear you loud and clear Eric. ...And that's why there are people here like Rob and Jeff (two great analog vinyl experts).

I got nothing against expensive products that improve the sound. To the contrary, I rejoice with people who have one (Mike Lavigne, and few others) and who talked about it (Klaudio) in the past with great qualitative attributes. ...And $4,000 is not the end of the world for serious analog music lovers.

Even $40,000 for a quality preamp with state-of-the-art integrated phono stage is reasonable for the high heeled people.

_________________

But somehow my post was distorted or some' like that, and deleted! ...I have a sort of an idea why, but I'm just not sure, so I can't comment with certitude on that.
And no way that someone has the courage to say why. ...Because he knows that it is simply totally ridiculous and has no basis whatsoever for a deletion.

Then I'm emotionally stressed, and asked for a 'restore' of my post. ...And that's when I got banned for life!

Now, if you ask me; there are enough problems in our societies (you know what I'm sayin'), that we simply don't need more in the hobbies we love and are free to discuss, share, and learn some more about. ...And all the other younger people behind us, and who are looking for the best encouragement, the best information for them, and the best integrity from the people who provide such great info and share their knowledge.

What's good there truly is for an audio forum if the main priority is given to only a particular class of people with their own ideologies and philosophies?
...Financial agendas, bias motivated? ...Some places for sure.
Overcharged items, overpriced electronics? ...That too is another reality, and a very sad one.

I invested close to a million dollars in this hobby since I started, and I learned a lot along the way.
Ask yourself, anyone here, how much money and time you invested in your audio hobby since you first start of (software and hardware); some of you are going to be totally surprised by the huge dollar amount and time you invested during all those years; no doubt about it. ...Some of you are going to be in the several millions of dollars, and others in the six figures easily. ...And the time; reading, shopping, listening, purchasing, selling, tweaking, tweaking some more, investigating, evaluating, ... it's going to be in several years, and without sleep!

And that's how much I am deep into this audio love affair myself! ...So for me to get banned from the places where people like me share and learn their passion all together, without necessarily agreeing, but agreeing to disagree nonetheless, and always with respect, is simply a soulful outrage (to the most profound depth of my soul)!

I've been insulted, I've been ripped off, I've been beaten up, I've been humiliated, I've been harassed, I've been ridiculed, I've seen it all in my lifetime, and I just want to set free of it all, of all that injustice, snobbishness, ... I got not many years left, and I want peace for those last few remaining years. ...And respect, the same respect I give to all.

I hear what you say. To someone like me $4000 would be the end of the world. I nearly came to that end just on my speakers alone. It's just far too dangerous, this aspect of the hobby. With that and the fact that I have very little to no disposable income, a real fear of diminishing returns and live a stress-filled life where even with my skills in music therapy I only get a few minutes rest pit from it at any time and it is not often enough. No hobby is worth being put down, brow-beaten, etc. I've invested less than 5 digits in this hobby and it's more than I care to. I guess my love for the hobby is rather shallow based on that aspect and so be it. I thought the meaning of this hobby or the encompassing meaning anyway was to share discoveries in music and helpful gear and tips and info to make best use of what any one of us has on hand. There's nothing wrong with expensive gear for anyone who can afford it, but it can't be made the standard of measurement and should never be used to humiliate those of us who can not even dream of affording it or even anyone who could,but doesn't want it for that matter. Often times I am lead to believe that the meaning of this hobby is to out-spend each other and that's a club I can't begin to belong to.
What frustrates me most is the fact that people tell me that because I'm not spending x amount or don't have the same gear that I could not possibly get the same or similar results from what I have all while I am getting said results. It doesn't make sense.

MusicDirector said:

I hear what you say. To someone like me $4000 would be the end of the world. I nearly came to that end just on my speakers alone. It's just far too dangerous, this aspect of the hobby. With that and the fact that I have very little to no disposable income, a real fear of diminishing returns and live a stress-filled life where even with my skills in music therapy I only get a few minutes rest pit from it at any time and it is not often enough. No hobby is worth being put down, brow-beaten, etc. I've invested less than 5 digits in this hobby and it's more than I care to. I guess my love for the hobby is rather shallow based on that aspect and so be it. I thought the meaning of this hobby or the encompassing meaning anyway was to share discoveries in music and helpful gear and tips and info to make best use of what any one of us has on hand. There's nothing wrong with expensive gear for anyone who can afford it, but it can't be made the standard of measurement and should never be used to humiliate those of us who can not even dream of affording it or even anyone who could,but doesn't want it for that matter. Often times I am lead to believe that the meaning of this hobby is to out-spend each other and that's a club I can't begin to belong to.
What frustrates me most is the fact that people tell me that because I'm not spending x amount or don't have the same gear that I could not possibly get the same or similar results from what I have all while I am getting said results. It doesn't make sense.

Click to expand...

This is great Eric that we're having a civilized analog discussion in one of the very best and most friendly and open audio forum of the entire Wide Web World.

We have the right to our opinions, and the right to ask the right questions as well. And if that right is denied to us, then nothing intelligent can come out of it, and we don't learn anything and we become slave of the people who are imposing (with or without their own knowledge) their restricted or dominating or highly biased or financially motivated or one-way views!

If we don't ask questions, how can we be certain for sure of what people are saying?
Should we simply believe everyone around us?

Thing is this: Without respect you are a nobody. Plain and simple. It's not because you are a pro that you are doing everything right.
Again, if you insult your kids playing in their sandbox, by yelling at them or swearing or telling names, no matter how big and how important your job is or was you are a nobody.

The Klaudio seems to be the real deal; until another better one and less expensive one is discovered by someone else.

And then, what's the use to pay fifty dollars for a remastered album by the greatest record label, if you need to clean it first to take full advantage of its superior sound quality?
Question like that will get you banned from some audio forums! Well, it did to me after it was deleted and then I asked that it been restored.

My deepest love in my audio evolution is with the turntable and the music records (albums).
And the more I tried to manually clean my LPs the more they sounded awful!
Because I simply did not have the right technique; I was making things worst by spreading the debris all over my LPs!
Do you know how frustrating is that?

But when I was a kid I wasn't anal like that and din't clean my LPs with special fluids, and special machines with motors and ionizer and and all that jazz; just a simple cleaning brush (that good old one with wood on top) and few drops of distilled water mixed with a little bit of isopropyl alcohol; few seconds, that's all.

Now, I got three turntables (all below $1,000), and my LPs are from the sixties, 70s, 80s, and 90s. ...I got about 5,000 of them 12 inchers, and few hundred 45s.
I don't buy brand new LPs (the good remastered ones) any more like I did for so many years, and I read everything there is to read about, and check everyone who has an ultra high-end analog rig like Michael Fremer, Mike Lavigne, Gary Koh, Christian, and others; for the fascination and higher learning.
Once I was in contact with that German fellow who built his own highly sophisticated turntable and evaluated at $650,000!
And I kid you not! I got PMs to prove it, and pictures too, but the thing is this: I've been banned from that forum and cannot access those files (PMs) anymore.

Then in relation to this, that $4,000 record cleaning machine is small peanuts.
Mikey's turntable alone cost $160,000 and you can still get better sound from the best open-reel tape machines (the pro ones).

We're all audio people; I'm a non-pro musician myself, and a music lover since I was born almost 60 years ago!
The main forums I visit and register on the Internet are Audio (and Video too) forums.
Plus some scientific ones too (Philosophy and Planet Construction).

We have all type of people, just in audio forums, but all of us with the same common interest; our love for musical sounds.
For some of us it's the ultimate euphoria/ecstasy into the 5th dimensional audio nirvana, the holy grail of all papal liberation of the complete universe; the absolute inter-galactic trip.
For others it's a business, for another others it's a living.

For me it is a spiritual food, an hallucinatory experience. ...A vision into my sixth sense, an allegiance with the unknown.
...The undiscovered countries.

Yeah, I want the best too, I want my records real clean, I want the best experience, I want respect.

NorthStar said:

The Klaudio seems to be the real deal; until another better one and less expensive one is discovered by someone else.



My deepest love in my audio evolution is with the turntable and the music records (albums).
And the more I tried to manually clean my LPs the more they sounded awful!
Because I simply did not have the right technique; I was making things worst by spreading the debris all over my LPs!
Do you know how frustrating is that?

But when I was a kid I wasn't anal like that and din't clean my LPs with special fluids, and special machines with motors and ionizer and and all that jazz; just a simple cleaning brush (that good old one with wood on top) and few drops of distilled water mixed with a little bit of isopropyl alcohol; few seconds, that's all.

Now, I got three turntables (all below $1,000), and my LPs are from the sixties, 70s, 80s, and 90s. ...I got about 5,000 of them 12 inchers, and few hundred 45s.
I don't buy brand new LPs (the good remastered ones), and I read everything there is to read about, and check everyone who has a ultra high-end analog rig like Michael Fremer, and others.
Once I was in contact with that German fellow who built his own highly sophisticated turntable and evaluated at $650,000!
And I kid you not! I got PMs to prove it, and pictures too, but the thing is this: I've been banned from that forum and cannot access those files (PMs) anymore.

Then in relation to this, that $4,000 record cleaning machine is small peanuts.
Mikey's turntable alone cost $160,000 and you can still get better sound from the best open-reel tape machines (the pro ones).

We're all audio people; I'm a non-pro musician myself, and a music lover since I was born almost 60 years ago!
The main forums I visit and register on the Internet are Audio (and Video too) forums.
Plus some scientific ones too (Philosophy and Planet Construction).

We have all type of people, just in audio forums, but all of us with the same common interest; our love for musical sounds.
For some of us it's the ultimate euphoria/ecstasy into the 5th dimensional audio nirvana, the holy grail of all papal liberation of the complete universe; the absolute inter-galactic trip.
For others it's a business, for another others it's a living.

For me it is a spiritual food, an hallucinatory experience. ...A vision into my sixth sense, an allegiance with the unknown.
...The undiscovered countries.

Yeah, I want the best too, I want my records real clean, I want the best experience, I want respect.

Click to expand...

As a near 70 year old life long audiophile/music lover with an extensive vinyl library, I can identify with what you say. The Klaudio really does it- much better than anything before, and adds greatly to my enjoyment of my music- well worth the price. Fortunately, I can afford it, and a great phono preamp as well.

Hi Tom,

You are not the only person as you well know who is very happy with his Klaudio machine.

And I read few comments by some of their owners, and I posted Myles' review right here for reaffirmation.
I'm a believer myself because I trust them people, I know they don't bull around when it comes to improved sound from their vinyls.

Mike here, our forum creator/founder/administrator requested suggestions for a quality preamp with integrated phono stage (because he is restricted for space), and that is also why I posted that other review by Jim.

As for if one can afford it or not that is the last of my problems. If a product costs one million dollars and performs like it I will recommend it to whoever can afford it.

Nice of you for dropping by and sharing your brief comment.

TIPS on cleaning your records (for better sound): Nitty Gritty 2.5 Fi RCM --- See post #2 --- And then post #4

* Please don't try this at home, with your CDs.

NorthStar said:

TIPS on cleaning your records (for better sound): Nitty Gritty 2.5 Fi RCM --- See post #2 --- And then post #4

* Please don't try this at home, with your CDs.

Click to expand...

I don't see what this has to do with CDs. If this is just another way of putting down those of us who don't have a $4k RCM and claiming that a multi-step method is stupid or even worse, ruining records then what's the point of this forum?
I'm going to continue to use my methods and whoever doesn't like that, just remember that they are my records and not yours and I hear the proof that they are clean every time I listen. From now on I will use the same rules I use with cables and no longer discuss vinyl records and related items such as cleaning here or anywhere.
~Eric

Eric, relax; it was only some humor (regarding the cleaning of CDs). ...You got it all distorted.

Why are you thinking that I might be putting down people who can't afford a Klaudio machine???
Where did you get this idea from??? In your head? Please, don't read nasty things in other people's words when/where there aren't any.
And understand the love and the good humor and the info sharing in them people. Thank you.
And I never put down anyone of my entire life; we are all equal, trillionaires and street people.
Eric, you don't know me very well yet. ...It's all in the heart.

- This thread is about the prowess of the Klaudio record cleaning machine, and the top-notch phono stage in the Wadax preamp, irregardless of their price. ...All in order to improve people's analog (albums) sound.
Get a grip, would you, please?

I can give you several links of people for who I have enormous respect and all praising the Klaudio machine.
And if I was back in my albums big time I would get the Klaudio myself. ...Without a single drop of a doubt.

_________

Stay tuned, you haven't seen anything yet. ...Turntable Isolation Platform (Active Vibration Control).
Herzan - TS Series => http://www.herzan.com/products/active-vibration-control/ts-series.html

NorthStar said:

Eric, relax; it was only some humor (regarding the cleaning of CDs). ...You got it all distorted.

Why are you thinking that I might be putting down people who can't afford a Klaudio machine???
Where did you get this idea from??? In your head? Please, don't read nasty things in other people's words when/where there aren't any.
And understand the love and the good humor and the info sharing in them people. Thank you.
And I never put down anyone of my entire life; we are all equal, trillionaires and street people.
Eric, you don't know me very well yet. ...It's all in the heart.

- This thread is about the prowess of the Klaudio record cleaning machine, and the top-notch phono stage in the Wadax preamp, irregardless of their price. ...All in order to improve people's analog (albums) sound.
Get a grip, would you, please?

I can give you several links of people for who I have enormous respect and all praising the Klaudio machine.
And if I was back in my albums big time I would get the Klaudio myself. ...Without a single drop of a doubt.

_________

Stay tuned, you haven't seen anything yet. ...Turntable Isolation Platform (Active Vibration Control).
Herzan - TS Series => Active Vibration Control - TS Series

Click to expand...

I did not see any mention of CDs in the posts you linked to. Sorry, I don't get or see humor in the written word such as emails, posts, etc. My English is not good enough to understand sarcasm and the like I guess. I have no doubt the Klaudio is a great machine. What I don't get is being made to think or feel that I am not getting any results from my method that I can afford or that it is ineffective while I sit and listen to proof if effectiveness. Is it not at all possible that more than one method or use of an RCM can produce great or equal results?
That is all I am saying on the subject of vinyl records and cleaning and the related, period, end of story. Going forward, I will not discuss anything about records and that includes what I listen to. What music I listen to is my business and no others. The records I have are my business and no others.
~Eric

Wow, audio forums are just discussions among friends, pure and simple; about the music & gear we love,
and also the one we can dislike. ...And many other cool subjects intertwined between and among and more or less related to...

* The CD mention was my own: * "Please don't try this at home, with your CDs." ...In regard to cleaning your CDs with the Klaudio machine, that's all.

** The links I provided are there only for informative purpose (to ALL members); it's up to you to make your own mind.
{I started this thread for: Just like the title says.}

*** No sarcasm in me, it's not in my nature. ..Humor, yes, once in a while; I am human.

Have a great and happy day Eric.

Hey guys, can I join the party ?

Both of you are valid. It really comes down to what one can or is willing to spend if they enjoy what they have. My records sound prefect to me cleaned on my homemade RCM. No pops, crackles, hiss, etc. And with a Phonomena II.

Now might they sound better spending 8k more..perhaps..maybe even for sure. But here is the rub:
1) I cannot afford that
2) The % improvement would not be enough to be worth it to me

Seriously guys, its what one is willing to spend and what you feel you get out of it...and I don't think its very much...FOR ME

Now if 8K to me was like $80 to someone else, in other words money to burn on the hobby, I would consider it for the ease of use, surety, etc. Would I expect it to be 5 times as good, 3, 2 ? Nope. But with money to burn, I could be sure its being done right.

Also, I have a limited collection. Say, 250 albums...that's all I want. Now if I had walls of them, or a vinyl business, again, value add.

In the end, its hard for the guy with a 5K system (just an example) to understand why someone would spend that money and hard for the guy with the 60K system to understand, why not .

Peace unto all....LOL

Eric and Bob remind me of an old married couple.