What Music Server and Dac Will Out Perform My Turntable and Phono Preamp
- Thread starter Audiophilehi
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BlueFox
New member
Get a Lumin X1 for digital.
13th Note HiFi Reviews
Banned
That thinking is common but it’s not true anymore. Some DACs don’t sound digital at all. The DirectStream I tested from ps audio is a classic example or adding the right power supplies into dacs or just changing pre and power or choice of speakers. An ADE Dac I have atm too is a good example - the dcs too. These are far from brittle as is a conception about digital. The atc scm 40a I have Atm are as smooth with digital as others with analogue. In fact some people on the ps audio website say they thought this with the DirectStream ie they can change to digital. Sonic signature is rarely one component or just to do with formats in hifi.
A lot of the thinking about digital is not trying things with the right DAC. Into right system an analogue system sounds as good as digital but it’s about cost to get there.
I like ps audio as a company and owned the PW2 and updated it to the DS
i sold it about two years ago it was a nice dac bjt in no way is that analog sounding. See this is just a marketing ploy that smooth is analog or it has an analog sound.
analog is not smooth nor is it sleepy. If there is any similarity it’s easy to listen to being not hurting my head. Analog has layers , has details both micro and macro but it is also has a fast dynamic asent and decent line real music does very few dacs approach this kind of speed. Analog is not slow I’m fact it’s absurdly fast it’s just annoying like bad Digital can be.
i sold it about two years ago it was a nice dac bjt in no way is that analog sounding. See this is just a marketing ploy that smooth is analog or it has an analog sound.
analog is not smooth nor is it sleepy. If there is any similarity it’s easy to listen to being not hurting my head. Analog has layers , has details both micro and macro but it is also has a fast dynamic asent and decent line real music does very few dacs approach this kind of speed. Analog is not slow I’m fact it’s absurdly fast it’s just annoying like bad Digital can be.
a.wayne
Active member
13th ,
I can agree with you that many DACs today don't sound “digital bad” at all and some actually do start to sound very very natural like analog with digital benefits, making them standout but at a high cost , but and its a big but, i have not heard one regardless of cost that doesn't exhibit some sort of digital signature, digital noise so to speak. This is obvious when going from one to the other and really obvious at hifi shows, where going from a well setup analog room to a digital room , ringing is very evident , the really good digital has it less so, but its there , kinda like how some analog TT groove noise is audible to those sensitive to it but many find its less obtrusive due to its natural nature ...
BTW ,
I’m assuming your not using an analog reference along with your digital reference when comparing.
Regards
I can agree with you that many DACs today don't sound “digital bad” at all and some actually do start to sound very very natural like analog with digital benefits, making them standout but at a high cost , but and its a big but, i have not heard one regardless of cost that doesn't exhibit some sort of digital signature, digital noise so to speak. This is obvious when going from one to the other and really obvious at hifi shows, where going from a well setup analog room to a digital room , ringing is very evident , the really good digital has it less so, but its there , kinda like how some analog TT groove noise is audible to those sensitive to it but many find its less obtrusive due to its natural nature ...
BTW ,
I’m assuming your not using an analog reference along with your digital reference when comparing.
Regards
a.wayne
Active member
BTW , Its not either or for me plenty benefits to both , but analog TT allows one to unlock the golden era of lost recordings no more. To experience the music is what this hobby is all about ..
Regards
Regards
u-sound
Active member
to quote rene l, from nagra:
In 2017 I did play most of the time at shows some master tapes on Nagra T with tube tape head electronics and also turntable so analog sources play a lot about 80% of the time. But in 2018 with the new ClassicPSU on the HD DAC I play about 40% analog source and 60% digital. At the last RMAF in Denver we got 5 Best sound of show without turntable. That was just impossible before!
all i can say is YES !
tube dac with psu is paradies of sound, never will i go back to phono.
In 2017 I did play most of the time at shows some master tapes on Nagra T with tube tape head electronics and also turntable so analog sources play a lot about 80% of the time. But in 2018 with the new ClassicPSU on the HD DAC I play about 40% analog source and 60% digital. At the last RMAF in Denver we got 5 Best sound of show without turntable. That was just impossible before!
all i can say is YES !
tube dac with psu is paradies of sound, never will i go back to phono.
Kingrex
Active member
Owe goodness. Another digital vs analog. Just throw away all your vinyl and steaming services. Get 10 tapes you like and listen to nothing else ever again. Accept another tape if you can afford it.
When someone says there digital is replacing there digital I’m suspect to was there analog setup well. Was it able to convey analog for what it is. ? Both formats can be very good. But to me there is no doubt that analog if setup well can be made to be above digital even if it’s twice the price easy
Kingrex
Active member
Solid double down Al.
Kingrex
Active member
What good do you think your doing anyone. Its the same toxic spew that ruins every thread it infects. I thought we were here to help people.
a.wayne
Active member
its the going back which moves the soul and shake the earth
BTW i would much prefer to use digital if doing show demo’s , very difficult to get analog TT setup correctly for show conditions, it also appears his Digital best his tapes too ...
Regards
a.wayne
Active member
The thread ask the question , analog vs digital , any suggestions on how much to spend maybe this is a bit much for you Rex..
let the adults continue nuh ..!
Audiophilehi
Member
- Thread Author
- #96
The thread ask the question , analog vs digital , any suggestions on how much to spend maybe this is a bit much for you Rex..
let the adults continue nuh ..!
The ask was not really for an analog vs digital debate. It was merely an ask of what digital front end would surpass my current analog front end.
I come to realize that it’s not like comparing apples to apples and that they both offer different advantages and disadvantages.
Kingrex
Active member
Why are you directing this at me Wayne. My interpretation of Al's comments was Al to say no digital can compare to Analog. I firmly disagree. Earlier I stated and included an example where digital and at what level shines compared to analog. A setup that would pair well with Audiophilehi VPI vinyl. I never looked at this thread as digital vs Analog. I tried to explain my opinion that at all comparable price points, both formats will outperform one another dependant on the source material. Provided the same attention to detail in the setup of the equipment has been undertaken.
I personally take offence to the whole concept that somehow vinyl is a magic petroleum product that only it can unlock the magic of music. Thats crap talk. Thats the same old digital vs vinyl dribble I find polluting so many other threads.
I gave a good example of an $11k digital setup that kicks butt (imo). Fwiw, my setup is all tube with open baffle horn speakers. I'm sure the Mojo gear will voice different, to some degree with ported box speakers and SS amps. Maybe, maybe not. System synergy is very apparent between speakers and amps, and preamps and amplifiers. I'm not experienced enough to understand the impact of sources to the amplification chain. I would assume a flat smooth setup migh benefit from a slightly brighter, snappy source. And vice versa. A fast and treble forward might benefit from a slightly darker more relaxed source.
Due to the "Fact" that there are many members that love their digital front end playback equipment, I included, support the idea digital can outperform vinyl when properly implemented and meeting the subjecrive taste of the user. We all have our personal preferences. We seek different ends from our equipment. Al likes thousands and thousands or watts and massive line array speakers. I like a few watts and a horn. Radically different sound, but both pleasing. Personal preference will ultimately determine whether you can implement a digital setup and like it. And the type of music you listen too is a huge factor too.
I personally take offence to the whole concept that somehow vinyl is a magic petroleum product that only it can unlock the magic of music. Thats crap talk. Thats the same old digital vs vinyl dribble I find polluting so many other threads.
I gave a good example of an $11k digital setup that kicks butt (imo). Fwiw, my setup is all tube with open baffle horn speakers. I'm sure the Mojo gear will voice different, to some degree with ported box speakers and SS amps. Maybe, maybe not. System synergy is very apparent between speakers and amps, and preamps and amplifiers. I'm not experienced enough to understand the impact of sources to the amplification chain. I would assume a flat smooth setup migh benefit from a slightly brighter, snappy source. And vice versa. A fast and treble forward might benefit from a slightly darker more relaxed source.
Due to the "Fact" that there are many members that love their digital front end playback equipment, I included, support the idea digital can outperform vinyl when properly implemented and meeting the subjecrive taste of the user. We all have our personal preferences. We seek different ends from our equipment. Al likes thousands and thousands or watts and massive line array speakers. I like a few watts and a horn. Radically different sound, but both pleasing. Personal preference will ultimately determine whether you can implement a digital setup and like it. And the type of music you listen too is a huge factor too.
a.wayne
Active member
Its indirectly and directly comparing the two as you want the digital to surpass your analog and since your adding digital its not an either or which is exactly what I'm saying , it shouldn't be. What I'm arguing against is the notion that good analog is uber expensive and good digital is not , my take is you need really good digital to match and surpass analog , unless the analog was not really properly setup or good to begin with , not necessarily an either or , as in one being better...
Rex’s explanation of album and download selection is spot on when comparing , its best of best and not necessarily everything analog or digital is gonna be better ...
Regards
a.wayne
Active member
@Rex ,
AlRainbow is just giving his opinion and he feels analog is superior no different than those who feel digital is superior , all opinions valid , my take is any serious audiophile should have both it gives you plenty options and major references as to where one’s setup is going or lacking, not to mention the recordings it opens you up to ..
Agree with you also , that this is very system and music dependent , analog requires wide bandwith speakers and plenty headroom power to work vs digital, then there’s the you are there vs they are here recordings and listeners ..
plenty choices ..!
Regards
AlRainbow is just giving his opinion and he feels analog is superior no different than those who feel digital is superior , all opinions valid , my take is any serious audiophile should have both it gives you plenty options and major references as to where one’s setup is going or lacking, not to mention the recordings it opens you up to ..
Agree with you also , that this is very system and music dependent , analog requires wide bandwith speakers and plenty headroom power to work vs digital, then there’s the you are there vs they are here recordings and listeners ..
plenty choices ..!
Regards
Ctsooner
New member
I had to sell my Basis TT with Basis arm and Benz Micro Glider cartridge. My vinyl was all cleaned via my ultrasound cleaner. I had a specially made isolation shelf. Cables were Audioquest Niagara into the top Aesthetix Rhea phono stage. The rest of the system is Ayre AX5/20, Vandersteen Quatro's. I have all Hurricane interconnects and William Tell bi wire speaker cables.
I have been using The Memory Player for Laufer Technique for a few years now. Mark and Sam built in a custom DAC for me. I sold my Ayre QX5/20 DAC/streamer and feel that this DAC is much better. I also owned Empirical Audio's top DAC at the time with all the cap upgrades etc...
I feel strongly that The Memory Player/DAC is by far the best digital I've ever heard. My buddy has the same player, but used the Davinci mk2 (the most current one as he just got it back after it broke and he has all the newest upgrades). This player is better than any vinyl (not reel to reel) that I've heard under 50k or so. I took it into a local dealer awhile back and we put it in his top system that was the 60k Wilson (not sure of the model name) with D'agistino electronics. It was the AMG table set up. Cart was Benz Gullwing if I recall correctly.
Three of us chose The Memory Player. They nailed lowering all three jitters that they use to measure. They keep upgrading software and install it remotely. I can't physically use analog as it's too much up and down and even cleaning properly is tiring for me with the MS. I had no choice, but I'm glad I got in touch with Sam (owner and he only lives 30 minutes away) as he's a great guy and is using my player as an experimental one. He's got brand new cases (they are stunning with a large video display and a slot to rip. You can pick any auto color or various colored anodized cases) and is upgrading the DAC again.
I never thought I'd say that digital was as good and better in some cases as analog, but unless you hear this player/dac set up, you won't understand as we've had digital since 83 or so and 90% still isn't what it should be by now.
I have been using The Memory Player for Laufer Technique for a few years now. Mark and Sam built in a custom DAC for me. I sold my Ayre QX5/20 DAC/streamer and feel that this DAC is much better. I also owned Empirical Audio's top DAC at the time with all the cap upgrades etc...
I feel strongly that The Memory Player/DAC is by far the best digital I've ever heard. My buddy has the same player, but used the Davinci mk2 (the most current one as he just got it back after it broke and he has all the newest upgrades). This player is better than any vinyl (not reel to reel) that I've heard under 50k or so. I took it into a local dealer awhile back and we put it in his top system that was the 60k Wilson (not sure of the model name) with D'agistino electronics. It was the AMG table set up. Cart was Benz Gullwing if I recall correctly.
Three of us chose The Memory Player. They nailed lowering all three jitters that they use to measure. They keep upgrading software and install it remotely. I can't physically use analog as it's too much up and down and even cleaning properly is tiring for me with the MS. I had no choice, but I'm glad I got in touch with Sam (owner and he only lives 30 minutes away) as he's a great guy and is using my player as an experimental one. He's got brand new cases (they are stunning with a large video display and a slot to rip. You can pick any auto color or various colored anodized cases) and is upgrading the DAC again.
I never thought I'd say that digital was as good and better in some cases as analog, but unless you hear this player/dac set up, you won't understand as we've had digital since 83 or so and 90% still isn't what it should be by now.