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  1. #1

    On the future of Roon...

    On the future of Roon...
    Disclaimer: I am a lifetime Roon subscriber, and would very much like for Roon to succeed.

    I have been using Roon for several years now. For a while I used Roon with my local library only. Eventually I subscribed to music streaming services (Tidal, Qobuz).

    If you have a library that includes local files, Roon offers, by far, the best music management capabilities. Nothing, I mean nothing, out there can touch it.

    But if your library is external (from music streaming services), recent announcements by Apple and Spotify will affect Roonís future.

    Just in case you were not aware, Apple and Spotify recently announced that they will start providing CD quality music. Apple will not change their price. I suspect that Spotify will be forced to keep their monthly rates as well. Their rates are lower than those of Qobuz and Tidal.

    Roon does NOT work with Apple Music or Spotify. Most likely, it will NEVER will.

    So... would Roon users still subscribe to Tidal or Qobuz? Maybe some folks have invested in MQA-capable equipment and feel bound to Tidal. Qobuz subscribers may want to have access ďhi-defĒ offerings.

    But what if folks are happy with just CD-quality offerings? ThenÖ they will likely switch to a cheaper streaming service.

    That leads me to the conclusion that once Apple Music and Spotify start offering CD-quality music, both Tidal and Qobuz will see a drop of subscribers, and many Roon users will stop using Roon.

    The future of Roon, in my opinion, relies on one of the big guys buying them out and using their database management capabilities.

  2. #2
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    I use Roon because of the phenomenal metadata, and because it allows me to link different systems (I have a Naim QB at bedside, sonos in bathroom and kids rooms, and a headphone amp on my desktop in my basement). Apple and Spotify (nor Aurender or other systems as such) will not have these features. Amazon has been offering hi rez for awhile also. I agree Tidal will see a drop. Qobuz goes after a different international consumer. But as far as Roon, I think it's "Apples" to Oranges.

  3. #3

    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky64 View Post
    I use Roon because of the phenomenal metadata, and because it allows me to link different systems (I have a Naim QB at bedside, sonos in bathroom and kids rooms, and a headphone amp on my desktop in my basement). Apple and Spotify (nor Aurender or other systems as such) will not have these features. Amazon has been offering hi rez for awhile also. I agree Tidal will see a drop. Qobuz goes after a different international consumer. But as far as Roon, I think it's "Apples" to Oranges.
    Roon offers metadata that no-one else offers. Totally agree.

    However, others now offer multi-room capability (Sonos, Amazon).

    So the question becomes: is metadata worth $100+ dollars per year to a regular subscriber (in addition to the music service streaming fee)?

    (I am a lifetime subscriber so Roon does not cost me anything extra).

  4. #4

    Re: On the future of Roon...

    I donít believe that Roon is going anywhere for the foreseeable future. Iím ready to pull the plug on Tidal though and stick with Quobuz.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

  5. #5
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    On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky64 View Post
    I use Roon because of the phenomenal metadata, and because it allows me to link different systems (I have a Naim QB at bedside, sonos in bathroom and kids rooms, and a headphone amp on my desktop in my basement). Apple and Spotify (nor Aurender or other systems as such) will not have these features. Amazon has been offering hi rez for awhile also. I agree Tidal will see a drop. Qobuz goes after a different international consumer. But as far as Roon, I think it's "Apples" to Oranges.
    Those features and meta data come at a cost: sound.

    Best interface hands down is Roon. But far from the best sounding. Actually, quite a choke point sonically.


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  6. #6
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    in addition to the interface and metadata, roon ROCK which provids the ability to use any computer as a dedicated, headless streamer is a huge thing for me.

    users such as myself probably represent a small segment of roon's installed base and, therefore, are not decisive as to the future of roon.

    IME, any incremental electrical noise generated by roon sofware versus others can be mitigated or eliminated by deliberate computer design and downstream signal isolation... YMMV
    kanjiroba yak + roon rock > t+a dac8 dsd > air tight atc-5 + atm-300r almarro a318b > viking acoustics berlin r mk2
    core audio designs plyKraft 3L | hifi racks ltd podium t5-iii | alp-tone audio analog cables

  7. #7
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    I remain intrigued by using Roon interface to control HQPlayer, and evaluate sound quality differences from using Roon server. Haven't had the chance to fiddle with this yet.

  8. #8

    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky64 View Post
    I remain intrigued by using Roon interface to control HQPlayer, and evaluate sound quality differences from using Roon server. Haven't had the chance to fiddle with this yet.
    That is definitely the way to go. IMHO, HQP has the quite superior sound quality compared with straight Roon. However, you do have to spend some time experimenting with the different choices of filters, upsampling, etc. Some can be quite taxing on your computer, and some of those are the most rewarding in terms of sound quality in my experience. There is a very active subforum on Roon, just deaing with HQP.

    Larry
    Analog-VPIClassic3-3DArm,SoundsmithZephyrII+MiyajimaZeroMono,2xAmpex ATR-102,Doshi3.0 Herron VTPH-2A&BottleheadPhonoPre,
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  9. #9
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    We are getting off topic (we can blame Mike...) but the Aqua Linq apparently handles this fine...and is expensive enough to attract insecure audiophiles (like myself).
    Suspect a Sonic Orbiter would be fine though?

    AquaLinq and Roon/HQ Player module
    Aqua LinQ Network Interface – Part 2 – HQPlayer Module | HFA - The Independent Source for Audio Equipment Reviews

    Now back to our regularly scheduled programming....

  10. #10
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    In view of Roonís apparent intransigence in granting licenses for many streamers(*), do we not think that Roon may soon have a major rival? Perhaps a system that doesnít rely on a dedicated PC in every userís home to operate?

    If software that maintains details of the userís library of music can be added to the app and it knows which streaming services are subscribed to, would it not be possible to use external computing power to offer a comparable service to Roon? I donít know, but Roon seems to require too much user equipment (and signal processing) for my liking, though Iím on unsure ground here as Iím no IT expert.

    * For example, all NAD and Buesound streamers used to be Roon Ready and older ones are still good with Roon, but newer ones such as M33 are not yet certified despite (as far as I can establish) using identical electronics to the BluOS plug-in streamer module that can be added into M32, M12, M50.2 etc. Very weird!
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33, NAD M12, Consonance Cyber 845 monoblocs
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified, Martin Logan Expression 13A (now sold)

  11. #11

    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky64 View Post
    I remain intrigued by using Roon interface to control HQPlayer, and evaluate sound quality differences from using Roon server. Haven't had the chance to fiddle with this yet.
    I use Roon interface to control HQPlayer and love it.
    I am also using HQPlayer NAA running on an inexpensive Raspberry Pi.

    Playing around with the upconverting capabilities of HQP and the different filters has been amazing.

  12. #12

    On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotoy View Post
    That is definitely the way to go. IMHO, HQP has the quite superior sound quality compared with straight Roon. However, you do have to spend some time experimenting with the different choices of filters, upsampling, etc. Some can be quite taxing on your computer, and some of those are the most rewarding in terms of sound quality in my experience. There is a very active subforum on Roon, just deaing with HQP.

    Larry
    Totally agree! HQP costs just a few hundred dollars. Some folks will spend thousands of dollars on fancy cables. When you realize how HQP filters can actually (i.e., measurable) affect the sound, it is quite a bargain!

  13. #13
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    I am a recent Roon user. I decided to go year over year. Since only crazy audiophiles have large personal libraries, Roonís future lies in its ability to integrate with music services from all major players. It takes two to tango, so Iím not sure Amazon, Apple, and Spotify will play along. Itís not in their business model to play well with others.

    Roon is also very challenging to set up and get running. It takes a lot of horsepower and an investment in time and money to make it happen. Unless they make it more plug and play, it will not Ďtake offí in the true sense of the word. Maybe thatís ok though.

    Which brings me back to Tidal and Qobuz. Iím done with Tidal, and Qobuz is tiny. It may never scale and become profitable. Hard to say.

    Meanwhile Iím enjoying the ride and will take it as it comes.
    Tom

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  14. #14
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    I donít believe that Roon is going anywhere for the foreseeable future. Iím ready to pull the plug on Tidal though and stick with Quobuz.
    Just last week I went full time with Qobuz. I just wasn't using Tidal that much. .
    2chl : Pass Xa-30.5, W4S STP, Kef 201/2, KEF 140, Vapor Breeze, Lumin, VPI Classic, Manley Chinook, Bryston CD, BHA-1, HD650, HD800s, Dan Clark 1.1, OPPO 203, 105.

  15. #15

    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
    I am a recent Roon user. I decided to go year over year. Since only crazy audiophiles have large personal libraries, Roonís future lies in its ability to integrate with music services from all major players. It takes two to tango, so Iím not sure Amazon, Apple, and Spotify will play along. Itís not in their business model to play well with others.

    Roon is also very challenging to set up and get running. It takes a lot of horsepower and an investment in time and money to make it happen. Unless they make it more plug and play, it will not Ďtake offí in the true sense of the word. Maybe thatís ok though.

    ...
    The thing is that many "crazy audiophiles" as you call them, are finally realizing that much if not all of their digital personal library is available via streaming. So why bother? (Incidentally, when I hear of folks having terabytes-sized library of digital files complaining about how little musicians get paid by music streaming services, I always wonder how many of those files they actually paid for).

    Roon is not plug-and-play. Agree that it is a contributor to never becoming mainstream. But it is much easier to set up that something like the now unsupported Logitech Media Server which I believe was the precursor of Roon.

  16. #16
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    I think the demise of Roon has been greatly exaggerated. No more than wishful thinking on some peopleís part. I still think Roon sounds terrific and has the best interface. Anyone that thinks thereís a sonic penalty just needs a better server. I may also switch from Tidal to Qobuz shortly. I have no interest in Apple or Spotify.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000ís with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  17. #17
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Anyone who hasnít compared Roon to TAS or Aurender or NAIM, really should. Hopefully some folks who have made this comparison based on sound, will chime in.

    We have a Nucleus+ and a Taiko Extreme for running Roon. It sounds like HQP really can address some of the sonic shortcomings of Roon. I will definitely give it a try. Maybe by using HQP with Roon, you can have it all. On the future of Roon...
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    "We can hear everything we measure, but we can't measure everything we hear. Let your ears be your guide."

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  18. #18
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    It sounds like HQP really can address some of the sonic shortcomings of Roon. I will definitely give it a try. Maybe by using HQP with Roon, you can have it all. On the future of Roon...
    Hi Mike,

    Now thereís a useful suggestion. After youíve set up HQ Player with Roon, if you hear some sonic improvement, maybe you can show me how to do it.

    Thanks,
    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000ís with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  19. #19

    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Ö.

    We have a Nucleus+ and a Taiko Extreme for running Roon. It sounds like HQP really can address some of the sonic shortcomings of Roon. I will definitely give it a try. Maybe by using HQP with Roon, you can have it all. On the future of Roon...
    Would love to hear the outcome of that. Just beware that the Nucleus+ that you have is not going to be powerful enough to properly run HQP with the better filters. You will need a much more powerful computer to do that.

  20. #20
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    Would love to hear the outcome of that. Just beware that the Nucleus+ that you have is not going to be powerful enough to properly run HQP with the better filters. You will need a much more powerful computer to do that.
    LinQ? Taiko? Or do I need to add a PC/Mac?


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  21. #21
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    Would love to hear the outcome of that. Just beware that the Nucleus+ that you have is not going to be powerful enough to properly run HQP with the better filters. You will need a much more powerful computer to do that.
    Yikes! Thanks for the warning. Seems strange that Roon would offer this add-on in their software and their own server (Roon Nucleus +) would not be able to handle it.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000ís with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  22. #22
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    I tried HQPlayer integration with roon once and found it klunky and not very reliable. Would love to know if people are really using this, trouble free. And how.

    Of course at the time, I was running a sotm neo bridge and using its HQPlayer integration. Maybe that was the unreliable part.

    Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk
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  23. #23
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    Yikes! Thanks for the warning. Seems strange that Roon would offer this add-on in their software and their own server (Roon Nucleus +) would not be able to handle it.
    the nucleus is a dedicated device running roon ROCK, a lite version of their operating system implemented in LINUX. unless i am mistaken, it is not possible to run anything other that roon server on that configuration.

    from roon: "The Nucleus runs Roon OS as an operating system and Roon OS only runs Roon Server."

    thus you still need another (powerful) device/computer to install hqPlayer. that device then becomes a roon endpoint to which the nucleus sends the audio data for hqPlayer to process and then send along to the DAC
    kanjiroba yak + roon rock > t+a dac8 dsd > air tight atc-5 + atm-300r almarro a318b > viking acoustics berlin r mk2
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  24. #24
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by aKnyght View Post
    the nucleus is a dedicated device running roon ROCK, a lite version of their operating system implemented in LINUX. unless i am mistaken, it is not possible to run anything other that roon server on that configuration.

    from roon: "The Nucleus runs Roon OS as an operating system and Roon OS only runs Roon Server."

    thus you still need another (powerful) device/computer to install hqPlayer. that device then becomes a roon endpoint to which the nucleus sends the audio data for hqPlayer to process and then send along to the DAC
    Agreed. Does anyone know how HQPlayer can use a roon endpoint (network dac) to send the music to? I'm not sure if my dac (esoteric n01xd) would support this.

    Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk
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  25. #25

    On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by 2fastdriving View Post
    Agreed. Does anyone know how HQPlayer can use a roon endpoint (network dac) to send the music to? I'm not sure if my dac (esoteric n01xd) would support this.

    Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk


    Inside Roon settings, you will see an option to enable HQPlayer.
    Then when using Roon, you will see HQPlayer as an available endpoint.

    I do not think that HQP supports Esoteric directly.

    However, there are ways to do so. Like sending the processed signal from HQP to a device that has a HQP NAA and then sending the digital data to any type of DAC. (One of my DACs is a Bryston and I can send music processed by HQP to the Bryston DAC that way using either optical cable or USB).

  26. #26

    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by 2fastdriving View Post
    I tried HQPlayer integration with roon once and found it klunky and not very reliable. Would love to know if people are really using this, trouble free. And how.

    Of course at the time, I was running a sotm neo bridge and using its HQPlayer integration. Maybe that was the unreliable part.

    Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk
    I am running Roon/HQP together with zero issues.
    My set up consists of PC running Windows 10. I bought a computer built for gaming (Falcon Northwest) with fast processors just for this purpose. Both Roon Core and HQP are installed in this machine. I have. t+a DAC that connects to the computer via USB. HQP takes any music and converts it to 512DSD on the fly. It works flawlessly every time.

    I can also connect HQP to an inexpensive Raspberry Pi computer with built in HQP NAA. This allows me to use any DAC.

  27. #27

    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    LinQ? Taiko? Or do I need to add a PC/Mac?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    I am using a Windows PC. Using Windows 10 you could upsample everything to DSD512 when using the right computer and DAC if you want to. Mac and Linux are limited to 256DSD if not mistaken (something to do with the operating system).


    That said, I have been running HQP inside the PC but using HQP NAA that resides in a lowly Raspberry Pi (Linux) to send the data to the DAC and the result is fantastic.

    Not familiar with Taiko or LinQ.

  28. #28
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    I am using a Windows PC. Using Windows 10 you could upsample everything to DSD512 when using the right computer and DAC if you want to. Mac and Linux are limited to 256DSD if not mistaken (something to do with the operating system).


    That said, I have been running HQP inside the PC but using HQP NAA that resides in a lowly Raspberry Pi (Linux) to send the data to the DAC and the result is fantastic.

    Not familiar with Taiko or LinQ.
    HQPlayer on Linux (tested on Ubuntu Studio) has DSD512 output.

    I love Linux systems, they are really stable, temperature control better, pc is more quiet, not many side programs running all the time, you can set the power management by simply pushing the on/off button and it will never ever start with half an hour updating when booting.

    about the future of Roon: I am a bit concerned about the future of Tidal/Qobuz.Without these services Roon is over.
    https://www.ajg-stream.nl/

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    Running HQPlayer with Roon GUI on a fanless intel 8i5 Linux Nuc with akasa turing case
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  29. #29
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    I am using a Windows PC. Using Windows 10 you could upsample everything to DSD512 when using the right computer and DAC if you want to. Mac and Linux are limited to 256DSD if not mistaken (something to do with the operating system)...
    the DSD rate is related to the DAC and whether or not it can accept a native DSD signal or whether DoP (DSD over PCM) is required.

    in the case of t+a, there is a driver for windows which allows a native DSD signal to be sent to the DAC.

    however, for mac and linux only a DoP signal can be sent to the DAC. unfortunately, this can only be done at 1/4 the maximum native DSD rate. for example, my t+a dac can accept DSD512 natively ...but, only DSD128 when send using DoP

    this has to do with the USB receiver firmware used by t+a.
    _________________________________________________

    note: there is a USB receiver firmware update available which allows for native DSD streams from linux. i installed this update and can now send DSD512 natively to my DAC from a linux server (running roon ROCK). however, this is an advance user update that i can only recommend for those with good computer / software skills.
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  30. #30
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Getting confused. Why is my SMSL dac showing an input signal of 512 DSD on the display while using HQPlayer/Roon on Linux with DOP?

    Is there something wrong with the T+A dac or is my SMSL showing 512 and reducing it inside to 1/4th.
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  31. #31

    On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alkyogre View Post
    Getting confused. Why is my SMSL dac showing an input signal of 512 DSD on the display while using HQPlayer/Roon on Linux with DOP?

    Is there something wrong with the T+A dac or is my SMSL showing 512 and reducing it inside to 1/4th.
    In my case the issue is with the way my T+A DAC interacts with Linux but not Linux itself. I have confirmed that there is beta firmware for the T+A that would allow 512DSD via Linux. Given that the firmware upgrade is still in beta (and non-reversible) I am not willing to try it.

  32. #32

    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Any recommendations to run HQP with apart from gaming PC? I prefer purpose-built server in the audio system. I currently run Roon on nucleus.

  33. #33
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post
    Any recommendations to run HQP with apart from gaming PC? I prefer purpose-built server in the audio system. I currently run Roon on nucleus.
    I also own a Roon Nucleus +. I have no idea why I would need to add extra computer processing power to convert to DSD 512 or DSD 256. It has been my experience through the entire history of all systems I have owned that native sampling in the native format, be it PCM or DSD, always sounds better than upsampling or converting to another format. It sounds to me like this is a case of a more complicated solution looking for a problem.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
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  34. #34
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    I also own a Roon Nucleus +. I have no idea why I would need to add extra computer processing power to convert to DSD 512 or DSD 256. It has been my experience through the entire history of all systems I have owned that native sampling in the native format, be it PCM or DSD, always sounds better than upsampling or converting to another format. It sounds to me like this is a case of a more complicated solution looking for a problem.

    Ken
    The main purpose and what put HQP on the map (generally speaking) are its filters and modulators when used for upsampling PCM > DSD. 256 is a sweat spot for many while to others 512 + 1024 is their preference. Obviously this will be DAC dependent, actually hugely dependent and almost always suites DACs that are or have NOS capability so as to let the audio PC and HQP do their thing (upsample with HQP) instead of the the internal DAC do the upsampling (which many chip based DACs do automatically and if they are not NOS then that internal upsampling cannot be "turned off")

    Once you get into the higher sampling rates along with the combination of HQP filters and the new EC modulators, you NEED a high quality and powerful PC for the upsampling part. Nuculus and the like are not designed for this stage. Thus, this is where many take it from basic to stratosphere on an audio PC with dedicated LPS for CPU, drives, high quality eth and USB cards all of which are "usually" of a overall fan-less design and go DAC direct.

    Another option (what I currently do) is to run roon core/server on a dedicated computer (win10, mac mini, Linux). I built up a current spec (i7-9700) small form factor computer running Ubuntu and does one thing only = roon server/core. Then i have a high end PC running Win Server 2019 and that runs HQP only (these two computers reside in util room). That powerful wkst then sends the upsampled HQP output to a HQP NAA endpoint (opticalRendu). There are many types of NAA's from a basic Pi to a Aqua LinQ. The endpoint is attached to a DAC.

    So you can go DAC direct (roon + HQP on same computer with a high qulaity USB card) or the use of an endpoint to DAC.

    There are a lot of permutations to the above and this is just some general "concepts". Are these plug n play, sorta depends. Some of these are pretty easy and just work while others are pretty intense and require solid computer and networking knowledge. Options I guess is the key word here. If one wants nothing to do with all this futzing (albeit control), one can keep it very simple (in the roon context) or opt for the aurender, lumin types with wonderful results
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  35. #35
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    On the future of Roon...

    Just so I understand. In order to improve the sound of Roon, you install and configure HQP on another computer. Then, in HQP, you set it to upsample everything, even PCM red book to DSD 256/512 using a ASDM7EC modulator with a poly-sinc-ext2 filter.

    The concern I have is that some DACís are optimized for native, so choosing the right DAC for this configuration and the right powerful PC is key. So all LINQ is doing is essentially being that NAA at the end of the day. So, if I understand correctly, unless you want to connect your DAC directly to the new powerful PC running HQP, you need an NAA, such as Antipodes or LINQ.

    So in my case, I could run HQP on the Taiko Extreme with Roon, connect the LINQ to the Taiko and then connect the LINQ to the MSB?

    Have most of you found this significantly increased the sound quality of Roon at the end of the day?
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  36. #36
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Wow, Am I the only one confused by all this?

    And they say vinyl is a hassle........I'll just lower the tonearm and call it good.
    Mark


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  37. #37
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    This thread has been very helpful. Now that I understand what HQ Player is all about, I no longer have any interest in it.

    Thanks,
    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
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  38. #38

    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post
    Any recommendations to run HQP with apart from gaming PC? I prefer purpose-built server in the audio system. I currently run Roon on nucleus.
    You do not need a "gaming" PC. But you need a powerful computer and having a very good video card helps. It turns out that "gaming" computers are built with both. The processing power of video card is used by HQP to handle some of the processing. I only run Roon and HQPlayer in my PC. So I am using it as a dedicated audio component in my system.

  39. #39

    Re: On the future of Roon...

    I've tried Roon ... love the features but the sound just isn't there for me even compared to my entry level Aurender or even a MBP running Audirvana that I use as the front end for my headphone listening. I think all the confusion on this thread is reason enough why Roon will likely never become more than a niche player and unless gain support by Apple or Spotify seem to have a limited runway. That said .. I hope I'm wrong as I certainly want there to be more choice not less in our audiophile community.

    George
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  40. #40

    On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Just so I understand. In order to improve the sound of Roon, you install and configure HQP on another computer. Then, in HQP, you set it to upsample everything, even PCM red book to DSD 256/512 using a ASDM7EC modulator with a poly-sinc-ext2 filter.

    The concern I have is that some DACís are optimized for native, so choosing the right DAC for this configuration and the right powerful PC is key. So all LINQ is doing is essentially being that NAA at the end of the day. So, if I understand correctly, unless you want to connect your DAC directly to the new powerful PC running HQP, you need an NAA, such as Antipodes or LINQ.

    So in my case, I could run HQP on the Taiko Extreme with Roon, connect the LINQ to the Taiko and then connect the LINQ to the MSB?

    Have most of you found this significantly increased the sound quality of Roon at the end of the day?
    I am running BOTH Roon and HQP on the same computer. The processing power varies depending on what you want HQP to do.

    For example, the combination of converting everything to 512DSD, using full-blown poly-sinc filters (unlike the -2s filters), and on top adding DSP (I use room correction filters) require a VERY powerful computer with a video card (HQP can use the processing power of the card). But not everybody needs that.

    If you keep the files in their native format and only do fixed multiple up-conversions (like PCM to 8xPCM; and DSD to 8xDSD), the processing power needs comes down considerably. Currently, this is what I am doing (plus filters and room correction DSP).

    My current configuration is: One main computer running Roon/HQP. This is the computer that does all the number crunching. I have another very small computer (a $50 Raspberry Pi) with HQP NAA software installed. My main computer and the RPi are connected to the same network using an ethernet switch and ethernet cables. I connect the Rpi to two separate DACs (one via USB and the other via fiber connection).

    I am not familiar with LinQ, but looking at HQP website, they list the Aqua LinQ as having a built-in NAA. To me that means that you might be already on third base. See if you can do the following:

    - Connect the LinQ and the computer running Roon/HQP to the same network (this is as simple as connecting both to your internet switch with ethernet cables). On the computer running HQPlayer, open the app and go to HQP Settings. Under "Output Device Settings" in the "Backend" section you should now see "NetworkAudioAdapter" as an option. Choose that. Then under "Device" the LinQ should now show. Select the LinQ. Then save those changes.

    - Connect LinQ to any DAC and make sure that in the LinQ you select the input to be the NAA.

    - In Roon, choose HQP as your Roon Endpoint and press play and see how it goes.

    I used to listen to Roon with my Squeezeboxes, but that was years ago. After I started playing around with HQP, I have been using Roon/HQP almost exclusively. Today, I don't think that I would be able to make a fair comparison.

  41. #41

    Re: On the future of Roon...

    There is an HQP thread on the Roon Forum. Lots of helpful information. Jussi (Mr.HQP) is a frequent participant and he answers questions directly if you PM him. I started on the HQP path at the recommendation of Tom Caufield who is the mastering engineer for Channel Classics. I was particularly interested in mch files (typically 5.0 or 5.1) which Channel provides on the SACDs and digital downloads (Native DSD is the website they own for all DSD downloads). He recommended using a separate, powerful computer to upsample the DSD64 files to DSD256 so that my multichannel DAC would not be overburdened in doing the upsampling internally. So I did that with a purpose built computer that my computer person built for me back in 2018. He contacted Jussi and worked through all the necessary details, including testing everything out This took a lot of horsepower since I am upconverting six channels simultaneously. Since I got my computer, there are more powerful and cheaper chips available. Cheap compared with lots of audiophile equipment. My main processor is an i7-6950X. It was $1650 when I got it. Today, many very powerful chips are much, much less expensive.

    Larry
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  42. #42
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    Post Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by astrotoy View Post
    There is an HQP thread on the Roon Forum. Lots of helpful information. Jussi (Mr.HQP) is a frequent participant and he answers questions directly if you PM him. I started on the HQP path at the recommendation of Tom Caufield who is the mastering engineer for Channel Classics. I was particularly interested in mch files (typically 5.0 or 5.1) which Channel provides on the SACDs and digital downloads (Native DSD is the website they own for all DSD downloads). He recommended using a separate, powerful computer to upsample the DSD64 files to DSD256 so that my multichannel DAC would not be overburdened in doing the upsampling internally. So I did that with a purpose built computer that my computer person built for me back in 2018. He contacted Jussi and worked through all the necessary details, including testing everything out This took a lot of horsepower since I am upconverting six channels simultaneously. Since I got my computer, there are more powerful and cheaper chips available. Cheap compared with lots of audiophile equipment. My main processor is an i7-6950X. It was $1650 when I got it. Today, many very powerful chips are much, much less expensive.

    Larry
    Sadly today there is a chips crisis. Those powerful chips are increasing in price. Nucs are hard to get, but still available and more expensive. About pcs, especially the video cards are a real problem. Waiting time about half a year or longer. Price 2.5k euro what used to be about 800.

    Sadly yesterday I had troubles with Roon. After testing and excluding everything I found that my dac broke. Think it couldn't handle 512 DSD.
    https://www.ajg-stream.nl/

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  43. #43
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by MDP View Post
    Wow, Am I the only one confused by all this?

    And they say vinyl is a hassle........I'll just lower the tonearm and call it good.
    Mark - Spot on posting. Although digital doesnít need to be as complicated. There are world class digital solutions that can be setup and used within minutes - Lumin, MSB/DCS/EMM w renderer, Esoteric network players, and a few others.

    Iím retired and spent 35 years in corporate IT. The last thing I want to do is build, setup, run and maintain multiple computers, switches, NAS,Ö.to enjoy music.

    But for those that do, have fun worrying about microcode and OS versions. Iíll be enjoying my my system; maybe vinyl or maybe my easy to play Lumin.

    Itís all goodÖ
    _______________

    Mike

  44. #44
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    My feeling is that some get enjoyment out of making what is complicated to some but easy to them, work. I am cool with that. Have yíall read some of the threads on turntable/arm/cartridge setup? To me, that is complicated.

    Itís a big hobby and we all approach it differently.
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  45. #45

    On the future of Roon...

    Agree that there are many digital solutions that are very easy to use.

    One such product that rarely is mentioned here is the Sony HAP-Z1ES. It has a built in hard drive, does Spotify Connect, it can play any type of music file including high definition files. In fact it can convert everything to DSD if you choose so. It is not Roon-ready but with Spotify about to offer CD-quality music, it is a bargain at about $1,750.

  46. #46
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    This has been a great, free wheeling thread. Lack of consensus, and the concept of "hobby" create for robust, diverse input on forums (I define hobby as our brains creating new problems that we feel we must solve!).
    Relating to the OP, I agree, the big players may ultimately combine greater feature sets that will ultimately squeeze out smaller players.
    The thread then diverged on the sound quality of Roon... I have called around to multiple dealers and "experts" on this, and looked at a variety of online comparisons. There is not a consensus that Roon isn't capable of equal sound qualilty to other interfaces. There is agreement that setup does affect Roon's sound quality, and we all can agree that it is less stable than other platforms.
    I was originally interested in keepng the Roon interface and pairing it with HQplayer's processing/streaming. This can be done on a single unit. Interestingly, Andrew, at Small Green Computer, feels this isn't necessary, and that output signal quality and clocking are more important.
    I will chew on this, as my brain's participation in this hobby enjoys trying to solve this important, world altering problem...

  47. #47
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky64 View Post
    This has been a great, free wheeling thread. Lack of consensus, and the concept of "hobby" create for robust, diverse input on forums (I define hobby as our brains creating new problems that we feel we must solve!).
    Relating to the OP, I agree, the big players may ultimately combine greater feature sets that will ultimately squeeze out smaller players.
    The thread then diverged on the sound quality of Roon... I have called around to multiple dealers and "experts" on this, and looked at a variety of online comparisons. There is not a consensus that Roon isn't capable of equal sound qualilty to other interfaces. There is agreement that setup does affect Roon's sound quality, and we all can agree that it is less stable than other platforms.
    I was originally interested in keepng the Roon interface and pairing it with HQplayer's processing/streaming. This can be done on a single unit. Interestingly, Andrew, at Small Green Computer, feels this isn't necessary, and that output signal quality and clocking are more important.
    I will chew on this, as my brain's participation in this hobby enjoys trying to solve this important, world altering problem...
    Hi Ricky,

    I agree with everything you said except that Roon isnít as stable as other platforms. I have literally had zero glitches since I started using Roon about three years ago. The key is I have an extremely straightforward setup: Roon Nucleus +, Synology NAS and NetGear Nighthawk Router running to a MSB Renderer V2 digital input module in my MSB Select DAC. No dropouts, no failures and no problems in three years. Canít beat that.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases and Femto 33 Clock; Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus; MSB UMT V Signature Transport
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps; MSB M204 Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000ís with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  48. #48
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpinist View Post
    Hi Ricky,

    I agree with everything you said except that Roon isnít as stable as other platforms. I have literally had zero glitches since I started using Roon about three years ago. The key is I have an extremely straightforward setup: Roon Nucleus +, Synology NAS and NetGear Nighthawk Router running to a MSB Renderer V2 digital input module in my MSB Select DAC. No dropouts, no failures and no problems in three years. Canít beat that.

    Ken
    Totally agree.....
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  49. #49
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Dupe
    Tom

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  50. #50
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    Re: On the future of Roon...

    Quote Originally Posted by nicoff View Post
    The thing is that many "crazy audiophiles" as you call them, are finally realizing that much if not all of their digital personal library is available via streaming. So why bother? (Incidentally, when I hear of folks having terabytes-sized library of digital files complaining about how little musicians get paid by music streaming services, I always wonder how many of those files they actually paid for).

    Roon is not plug-and-play. Agree that it is a contributor to never becoming mainstream. But it is much easier to set up that something like the now unsupported Logitech Media Server which I believe was the precursor of Roon.
    Good points. I have a large library because I live at the end of the known internet universe, with really spotty connectivity. For example, I have to throttle Qobuz to 24/96 to get it play reliably. Not a huge issue. But there are times when local network traffic drops my bandwidth down to the point that even 24/96 wonít stream.

    Point is, Roonís future lies in its ability to attract new streaming users, as the crazy audiophiles like me have already bought it. Roon will be more secure financially if they find a way to partner with the big dogs, who I predict will be the only ones left in the ring when the dust settles.
    Tom

    Audio:
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    C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 77
    Nottingham Dais with Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation
    SurfacePro 3, JRiver, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC

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    Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 80, Rega P3

    OnDeck:
    McIntosh MAC 4300v

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AudioShark - The Best High End Audio Discussion forum.

AudioShark forum is a leading forum site for High End Audio Discussion, Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater System Discussion, Best Home Stereo System Discussion, Home Theater Installation Discussion etc.

The AudioShark forum was created for sharing the passion of high-end Audio. We have Audiophiles from all over the world participating and sharing their knowledge. From novice to experts, you will find a friendly environment for discussing about High End Audio, Stereo System, Home Theater System, Home Stereo System, Home Theater Installation, Amplifiers, Speakers, Subwoofers, Integrated System, Acoustic treatments & Digital Room Corrections and many more.

At AudioShark, we also have incorporated an exciting Marketplace where members can peruse terrific buys on used gear, as well as meet dealers and discuss the purchase of new gear.

We are as crazy about this hobby as you are! So come on in and join us! Audioshark.org the Friendliest Audio Forum!

Industry Participation Disclosure : The owner and administrator of Audioshark is the owner of Suncoast Audio LLC in Sarasota Florida. Suncoast Audio has a full brick and mortar presence in Sarasota with several great show rooms with many world class brands. More information can be found at http://www.suncoastaudio.com

Audioshark is a community of like minded individuals. Audioshark welcomes participation from all manufacturers and owners of all brands and products. It is our belief that online forums provide a community of like minded audiophiles and music lovers to encourage the growth of this wonderful hobby.

Sincerely,
The Audioshark.org Team

On the future of Roon...

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