Thread: DAC (Re) Search

What I am looking for is a solid state DAC, MQA preferrable, and less non-DAC features as possible (ie. preamp, streaming). I will also need USB to accept feed from ACS10. My budget is under $10k although I've had temptations that exceeded that. I use Tidal so I'd like to get the full MQA.

My DAC is built into my preamp. I've never compared it to anything else. I was reading an informative thread about Levinson preamps and someone commented the DAC could have been better. My urge to experiment was in mind before that. The poster thought the DAC on par with a $3k or so unit. I place importance on source so here I am. Side note, concensus was the actual preamp is really good.

Under consideration:
MSB Discrete. I have heard from a few people (not of this forum) that the Discrete is not a top contender at its price point, that MSB upper end DAC's is where it's at. I'd still like to hear one.

Weiss 501. Ruled out, too complex, I don't want to mess with all the DSP and adjustments.

N05xd. A front runner from research and the enthusiasm here. More money but I also considered the K03xd. I'd think the sound of the DAC's should be on par with each other. Either I come up with more money and have a transport or in the 05 preamp/streaming I'll likely not use, at least the transport may see some use.

Meitner M3. I need to look again I can't remember why this is not a top contender, maybe price. Looks like some top notch technology though.

I also looked at, on paper, the Holo May & T+A DAC 200. The Boulder 812 is out there but I believe it's more of a preamp.

From you any other DAC suggestions or comments on what I stated above. Very difficult to find a straight forward DAC anymore.

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

MSB Discrete. I have heard from a few people (not of this forum) that the Discrete is not a top contender at its price point, that MSB upper end DAC's is where it's at. I'd still like to hear one.

Completely disagree. This DAC with the second PSU ($1750) hits way way above its price point.

Aside from that, we were asked by Berkeley to give their latest products a listen and we have the REF3 coming in. But perhaps their Berkeley Alpha DAC 3 is worth a look.

Agreed on the N-05xd. Amazing.

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I looked at the Alpha DAC3 but was confused on pricing, one unit showed $28k and another was slightly over $10k but I didn't see any difference in the model#. That combined with no knowledge of the brand I sort of dismissed it until you mentioned them.

I'm hoping to see some of these at AXPONA.

Correction to my OP, Meitner MA3 could be a contender, mqa & just over $10k

Originally Posted by Mike

Completely disagree. This DAC with the second PSU ($1750) hits way way above its price point.

Aside from that, we were asked by Berkeley to give their latest products a listen and we have the REF3 coming in. But perhaps their Berkeley Alpha DAC 3 is worth a look.

Agreed on the N-05xd. Amazing.

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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

I looked at the Alpha DAC3 but was confused on pricing, one unit showed $28k and another was slightly over $10k but I didn't see any difference in the model#. That combined with no knowledge of the brand I sort of dismissed it until you mentioned them.

I'm hoping to see some of these at AXPONA.

Correction to my OP, Meitner MA3 could be a contender, mqa & just over $10k

It IS confusing:

Alpha DAC Series 3 is $10,995
Alpha DAC Reference Series 3 is $28,000

The N-05XD is worth considering.

MQA is a must?


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MQA I wouldn't say is a must but I would like it since I am a Tidal user. Although I don't like the idea of the extra features the N05xd is my front runner.

Are you able to say what the difference in sound is like between the Discrete and N05xd? Or the Berkeley A3 if you've heard it?

Thanks

Originally Posted by Mike

It IS confusing:

Alpha DAC Series 3 is $10,995
Alpha DAC Reference Series 3 is $28,000

The N-05XD is worth considering.

MQA is a must?


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Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

MQA I wouldn't say is a must but I would like it since I am a Tidal user. Although I don't like the idea of the extra features the N05xd is my front runner.

Are you able to say what the difference in sound is like between the Discrete and N05xd? Or the Berkeley A3 if you've heard it?

Thanks

To my ears, the Discrete is on another level. It has a huge big chunk of the sound of the REF and Select. Sonically, it’s very fleshed out, organic and natural. Far far removed from the typical “digital sounds” of many DAC’s.

I know this may not matter to you, but to me the MSB offers so many benefits:

- can drastically improve sound by adding the second PSU ($1750)
- modular based, so only use the inputs you need. ProUSB/ProISL and Roon Renderer are best.
- MSB’s upgrade policy. Want to one day move up to the Premier? You get 100% of your money back towards the purchase.


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I don't like how the Alpha 3 has to convert USB to one of the other inputs.

If 2 PSU can all the Discrete units be stacked on one shelf? I also saw the Discrete has to be grounded or it can void warranty, looks like the wire can go under a screw of the preamp but this gives pause for thought. My power conditioner has a ground thumb screw I wonder if that would work or if it has to be to the preamp?

Be sure to hear the superb new dCS Dacs with Apex. DCS has the best MQA implementation.

This is certainly interesting.

Originally Posted by nicoff

I would be careful about investing in anything with MQA.
According to this article, the company behind MQA has filed for a Chapter 11 type bankruptcy.
MQA is going into administration | What Hi-Fi?

Deleted duplicate response.

Originally Posted by GSOphile

There are at least several DAC manufacturers who don't like to integrate a USB interface into their DACs for technical reasons (usually noise related). Berkeley is one. In case you haven't seen it, an excellent review of their Alpha USB Interface appeared in TAS:
Berkeley Audio Design Alpha USB Interface - The Absolute Sound

Testing one now. Alpha USB and REF3 at the request of Berkeley. Gotta say, yeah, yeah, pretty freaking great.

N30SA is source.




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Thanks for the link & info. I'll have to do some research, it seems a converter like Berkeley uses would be different than a USB input, the latter wouldn't have to convert it to a different digital form, would it?

Originally Posted by GSOphile

There are at least several DAC manufacturers who don't like to integrate a USB interface into their DACs for technical reasons (usually noise related). Berkeley is one. In case you haven't seen it, an excellent review of their Alpha USB Interface appeared in TAS:
Berkeley Audio Design Alpha USB Interface - The Absolute Sound

Originally Posted by Mr Peabody

Thanks for the link & info. I'll have to do some research, it seems a converter like Berkeley uses would be different than a USB input, the latter wouldn't have to convert it to a different digital form, would it?

FWIW, I tried direct AES AND SPDIF from the N30 to the DAC. The Alpha USB in the mix sounded more “there, there”, more presence.


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Originally Posted by GSOphile

I've heard the Alpha DAC S3 with the Alpha USB - excellent offering at a less than eye watering price to my ears.

That’s exactly what I’m thinking for him too.


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Bryan, you should really consider an Aqua La Scala with the Aqua LinQ. The DAC by itself is awesome but the linQ takes it to another level. It is a tube DAC but it only uses 2 common tubes that should last forever in a DAC. I heard one in a friend's system and in my system when he brought it over. Just smooth, musical and detailed. No fatigue whatsoever.

The Holo May KTE is another DAC to look at. I heard it in a friends system with a Pass XP22 pre and 250.8 amp. Just awesome. I am not a fan of the Holo Spring DAC though. Although I prefer the Aqua DAC with the LinQ.

Originally Posted by Mechnutt

Bryan, you should really consider an Aqua La Scala with the Aqua LinQ. The DAC by itself is awesome but the linQ takes it to another level. It is a tube DAC but it only uses 2 common tubes that should last forever in a DAC. I heard one in a friend's system and in my system when he brought it over. Just smooth, musical and detailed. No fatigue whatsoever.

The Holo May KTE is another DAC to look at. I heard it in a friends system with a Pass XP22 pre and 250.8 amp. Just awesome. I am not a fan of the Holo Spring DAC though. Although I prefer the Aqua DAC with the LinQ.

+1 on La Scala and LinQ combo. I have been running it for nearly a year and I am very satisfied. No upgraditis (yet)!

Originally Posted by MPW

+1 on La Scala and LinQ combo. I have been running it for nearly a year and I am very satisfied. No upgraditis (yet)!

Agreed! Aqua LaScala


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I'm not really sure why you would tell anybody to pass on the May KTE as my take from the discussion last year and your responses to questions the May KTE sat around you house for over a year and you never even bothered to break it in. The last response from you I remember which was after you had it for many months was that you had only put 150 hours on it. That was during the same time you were reviewing then buying the Baltic 3 which you have since sold. There are a few of us on this forum that own the May KTE and are happy with it's performance. So if you want to tell people to buy what you bought then that is one thing but the other characterization is not necessary. I've owned it for going on two years so I know how it sounds and stacks up. Like Larry it and the La Scala would be my choices in the under $10k but if MQA is a requirement then they aren't a consideration along with many other fine DAC's in that price range.

Larry

If you're talking about the original Spring DAC then no it's not in the same class. The current Spring 3 KTE is a different animal and based on my experience with both it and the May KTE it is about 90% of the performance of the May due the the separate power supply of the May. The sound however is so similar it is not likely you could pick out one from the other in a blind test without a long term listen. I've owned the La Voce S3 for over four years and if the La Scala is a better version of the Aqua house sound it's a solid choice.

Originally Posted by Mike

Alpha USB and REF3 at the request of Berkeley. Gotta say, yeah, yeah, pretty freaking great.

Been using the Berkeley Reference DAC since Version 1. They sound different from other DACs (in a good way IMO) and for me they hit the sweet spot ... not inexpensive but a reasonable price for true reference level sound. I just can't bring myself pull the trigger on a more expensive DAC given the speed at which digital continues to evolve. YMMV

Hopefully I'll get a chance to see/hear some of the DAC's at AXPONA, I know it's not like in my system but it gives some information plus I can talk to the reps.

I listen to a good amount of Rock so I tend to keep away from overly sweet or polite sounding gear. Nor, do I like strident. Thanks for the replies, even if civil disagreements can sometimes be productive.

Originally Posted by Mike

Testing one now. Alpha USB and REF3 at the request of Berkeley. Gotta say, yeah, yeah, pretty freaking great.

N30SA is source.




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cool