Shadowfax
Active member
Yes I am having a good laugh with all of this. But did I misunderstand that you said nothing more expensive than the $10 Belden cable you cited is worth buying as it will not perform any better?
The Smith Chart and...Power Cords
- Thread starter Puma Cat
- Start date
Yes I am having a good laugh with all of this. But did I misunderstand that you said nothing more expensive than the $10 Belden cable you cited is worth buying as it will not perform any better?
But is that so? The power cables delivers 110/240 volts AC - that would kill any amp. Luckily the amp never sees this - all it wants is just a few DC volts.
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
Every PC I've tried over stock makes a difference for better or worse.
Some are worth the money, some aren't.
Shadowfax
Active member
What are the cables on your AGs in your avatar pic? Or is that not your speaker?
Mr Peabody
Active member
Maybe clarify what you consider the actual amp. Because I plug my power cord One end into the wall the other into the amp, so I'm wondering how my amp isn't seeing the full 110v or so. As the power supply is the heart of any amp I would think you'd consider it part of the amp.
As I stated in a prior post you need to quit, LOL
As I stated in a prior post you need to quit, LOL
In order to keep things neat, the Duelund 12 gauge speaker cable and the Belden screened power cable for the AG's amps are enclosed in a cable-tidy sleeve. Nothing fancy but exceptionally good speaker cable and perfect (for its job) power cord. If I decide to feed the AG's amp with XLR cable, this could be accommodated too screened of course. Thanks for your interest.
No, the amplifier, being a circuit to amplify the incoming signal, doesn't need an AC voltage. Most (not all) amplifiers share an enclosure with a power supply that does nothing but convert the high AC voltage to the low one that the amplifier needs. Some amps have external power supplies and some use batteries, thus avoiding the need for a high voltage power supply, transformer, etc in the amplifier enclosure.
I'm sure you were well aware of this, but the explanation just in case!
Shadowfax
Active member
So you run PCs and Speaker Wire next to each other in the sleeve? Do you experience any issues with that? Lots of talk both ways on doing that.
Yes, it's another subject that gets some people hot and bothered, but there are high voltage cables (normally unscreened) inside a DAC or amp enclosure and these people don't seem to get overly concerned over these, do they?
In fact both my speaker cable and the power cable are screened, so I have no concerns whatsoever, despite my speakers being 107 dB and care needs to be taken to avoid the slightest hint of noise.
Neither do I concern myself that these cables are in contact with the floor (heaven forbid) and even this may get eyebrows raised by those who've spent my amplifier budget on their cable supports!
PS - I appreciate that well designed amps have internal barriers to prevent the power-carrying wires (unscreened) from contaminating the signal itself
Shadowfax
Active member
Thanks
Puma Cat
Well-known member
- Thread Author
- #91
I've found that with a sufficiently resolving system, pretty much everything (factor) makes an audible difference. For example, I can hear differences to due changes in barometric pressure or the difference between 68°F and 72°F in my room.
In addition to PCs, other significant factors that have audible effects are 1) room acoustics (this one is the most important of all) 2) ground-plane noise, both chassis ground-plane and signal-ground plane 3) leakage current, both as low-source and high-source impedance leakage current 4) threshold jitter 5) deterministic jitter and 6) phase noise. Digtal cables are susceptible to common-mode noise, and analog interconnects are susceptible to noise from the propogating longitudinal EM wave.
Speaker cables are particularly sensitive to vibration imparted to them from the floor (and no, it doesn't matter if the floor is slab or not; concrete actually "rings" like a bell).
brad225
Active member
If they play like they did against the Lions don't expect that kind of comeback against KC !
is Purdy a Mahomes ? no, not yet ..........
OH Please don't mention that singer girl that can't find a parking place for her jet. :bonkers:
Michaels HiFi
Well-known member
I agree. It's amazing how even simply moving PC's around other cables behind systems can make a difference. It's like a free upgrade.
It's pretty easy to pick up sound differences when PC's are too close to certain other cables.
W9TR
Member
I bought a bunch of used Shunyata shielded power cables about 5 years ago. 3 x 1.5 M venoms and 2 x 1.5M Diamondbacks. Just to try out. Being an engineer by trade I trend toward the objective side.
I have an Audio Precision System 222 audio analyzer with the DSP option which can measure signals and noise well below the capabilities of commercial audio gear. So I did a little experiment. I measured the SNR of my MC 2301's with stock cables. Preamp was on, volume turned all the way down. SNR, A-weighted was: L -122dB, R -123dB ref full power. This beat Mcintosh spec by a bit, so was in the ballpark. I ran a 16,384 point fft and found 60 Hz components at L -131dB and R -131dB or about 8 dB below the broadband noise floor. Then I switched to the Diamondback cables. SNR, A-weighted, was L -122 dB and R -123 dB. Same as before. Then I ran the same FFT as before and found the 60 Hz components were L -140 dB and R - 141 dB.
So the Diamondback cables made a 9 dB improvement in 60 Hz noise of the output of my MC 2301 amplifiers. No, these cables didn't make a difference in measured A-weighted noise, but humans can hear tones 15 dB below the broadband noise floor. So, these cables made a measurable difference at the OUTPUT of my amplifiers. They moved the 60 Hz component below audibility. Did they sound any better? Yes, I think they did. They stayed in the system and I bought more of them. But of course that subjective statement is colored by the fact that I knew they performed better objectively.
Call it bullshit if you will, but there are real physical reasons why power cables may make a sonic difference. Power cables radiate strong magnetic and electric fields that decay at a rate proportional to the inverse square of the distance from the cable. Yes there are miles of transmission line between you and your equipment but no, those don't matter because they are miles from your equipment. Your power cords do matter because they are right next to your audio cabling. And yes, as a designer I can mitigate or eliminate their effects inside the equipment chassis itself. As an audiophile you can choose cables with superior electric and magnetic field performance, avoid running power and audio cables physically parallel to each other, and cross them at right angles with some distance between them wherever possible.
I have an Audio Precision System 222 audio analyzer with the DSP option which can measure signals and noise well below the capabilities of commercial audio gear. So I did a little experiment. I measured the SNR of my MC 2301's with stock cables. Preamp was on, volume turned all the way down. SNR, A-weighted was: L -122dB, R -123dB ref full power. This beat Mcintosh spec by a bit, so was in the ballpark. I ran a 16,384 point fft and found 60 Hz components at L -131dB and R -131dB or about 8 dB below the broadband noise floor. Then I switched to the Diamondback cables. SNR, A-weighted, was L -122 dB and R -123 dB. Same as before. Then I ran the same FFT as before and found the 60 Hz components were L -140 dB and R - 141 dB.
So the Diamondback cables made a 9 dB improvement in 60 Hz noise of the output of my MC 2301 amplifiers. No, these cables didn't make a difference in measured A-weighted noise, but humans can hear tones 15 dB below the broadband noise floor. So, these cables made a measurable difference at the OUTPUT of my amplifiers. They moved the 60 Hz component below audibility. Did they sound any better? Yes, I think they did. They stayed in the system and I bought more of them. But of course that subjective statement is colored by the fact that I knew they performed better objectively.
Call it bullshit if you will, but there are real physical reasons why power cables may make a sonic difference. Power cables radiate strong magnetic and electric fields that decay at a rate proportional to the inverse square of the distance from the cable. Yes there are miles of transmission line between you and your equipment but no, those don't matter because they are miles from your equipment. Your power cords do matter because they are right next to your audio cabling. And yes, as a designer I can mitigate or eliminate their effects inside the equipment chassis itself. As an audiophile you can choose cables with superior electric and magnetic field performance, avoid running power and audio cables physically parallel to each other, and cross them at right angles with some distance between them wherever possible.
Speedskater
Member
a] were the Diamondbacks the same length as the stocks?
b] were the Diamondbacks positioned (dressed) as the stocks?
c] did all your interconnects have a heavy braided shield?
b] were the Diamondbacks positioned (dressed) as the stocks?
c] did all your interconnects have a heavy braided shield?
W9TR
Member
a) Yes
b) Yes
c) Yes, Mogami 2549 for the balanced interconnects. Speaker wire is Kimber 8TC which is multiple twisted pairs, unshielded.
I also measured the field strengths at the cable jackets using a Trifield TF2 EMF meter:
Stock OEM E Field 235 V/m H Field 42 mG
Diamondback E Field 3 V/m H Field 14 mG
At 60 Hz the predominate coupling mechanism will be H field
crwilli
Active member
This discussion has been interesting. I know a fellow audiophile who has purchased a handful of Odin Gold Power cables. They list for $34,999 for 1.25 meters. Bet we know how he feels about the importance of power cables. In total, he has more money sunk in Nordost cables than I have in my entire system.
Too funny Craig, proving some people have more money than brains !