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  1. #1
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    Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    A little birdie whispered in my ear that we can expect a new reference to be announced early next year..

    Start saving..

  2. #2
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Of course the world needs another $30,000 pre-Amp. Just kidding, I respect ARC, but dam... how many ultra expensive pre-amps do we really need.

    I have a friend who got rid of a Ref 10 liking the Stage 2 performance much better .
    Hattor The BIG - AMRG Trans | T+A AMP 8 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000 | Rega RP8 | Rega Ania Pro | MOON (by SimAudio) Neo 310LP | Record Doctor V & VI | T+A DAC 8 DSD | Falcon NW PC | Roon & HQPlayer | Wyred 4 Sound Recovery | KEF R700 | Elac Debut Sub 3010 | Abyss Diana Phi | Bryston ​BHA-1 | Astell&Kern AK240 | McIntosh MR7083 | Oppo BDP105

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  3. #3
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Just my opinion only. I'm very happy with my Ref 10. I have no desire to "chase the rainbow" any longer! Money spent elsewhere on things that really matter more in my life. It will be interesting the "improvement" they make on it. Is it actually a step forward or just "different" to appease the OCD?
    Source component-Esoteric K-01X
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    Cables-Transparent Reference speaker and Super I/C's.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    It looks like you have a fantastic system! Obviously I was kidding about the Ref10. I would love to try one . But, as you said, there are other areas in my life .
    Hattor The BIG - AMRG Trans | T+A AMP 8 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000 | Rega RP8 | Rega Ania Pro | MOON (by SimAudio) Neo 310LP | Record Doctor V & VI | T+A DAC 8 DSD | Falcon NW PC | Roon & HQPlayer | Wyred 4 Sound Recovery | KEF R700 | Elac Debut Sub 3010 | Abyss Diana Phi | Bryston ​BHA-1 | Astell&Kern AK240 | McIntosh MR7083 | Oppo BDP105

    "A great challenge of life: Knowing enough to think you are right, but not knowing enough to know when when you are wrong" - Neil deGrasse Tyson

  5. #5
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharp 2160 View Post
    Just my opinion only. I'm very happy with my Ref 10. I have no desire to "chase the rainbow" any longer! Money spent elsewhere on things that really matter more in my life. It will be interesting the "improvement" they make on it. Is it actually a step forward or just "different" to appease the OCD?
    I don’t know, but I doubt there will be a replacement any time soon. I kind of ask “how on earth could they improve the REF10?”


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  6. #6
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Easy, 50th years of ARC: Anniversary edition...

    @ Randy- just plan for it... instead of two steaks an evening - have one..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    I don’t know, but I doubt there will be a replacement any time soon. I kind of ask “how on earth could they improve the REF10?”


  7. #7
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jozua View Post
    Easy, 50th years of ARC: Anniversary edition...

    @ Randy- just plan for it... instead of two steaks an evening - have one..
    Care to make a friendly wager? I have my doubts.


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  8. #8
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Mike!

    Fine, a good bottle of Cape Wine for you if I am misinformed.. for three SACD's as I suspect the transport cost will be high.

    Unless there is visiting forum member who can pop it in his bag...then only one SACD

    We set the deadline June 2020 for Arc to show their hand.

    J

  9. #9
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jozua View Post
    Mike!

    Fine, a good bottle of Cape Wine for you if I am misinformed.. for three SACD's as I suspect the transport cost will be high.

    Unless there is visiting forum member who can pop it in his bag...then only one SACD

    We set the deadline June 2020 for Arc to show their hand.

    J
    Deal!


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  10. #10
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jozua View Post
    @ Randy- just plan for it... instead of two steaks an evening - have one..
    Hmmmm... I don't think I will live long enough by cutting my steak intake in half to "save" for a ref 10.... $30,000 divided by lets say $20 for a good steak. So 1500 less steaks.... hmmm.... Now we have to talk about two steaks an evening.... I know I am big.... but dam .....
    Hattor The BIG - AMRG Trans | T+A AMP 8 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000 | Rega RP8 | Rega Ania Pro | MOON (by SimAudio) Neo 310LP | Record Doctor V & VI | T+A DAC 8 DSD | Falcon NW PC | Roon & HQPlayer | Wyred 4 Sound Recovery | KEF R700 | Elac Debut Sub 3010 | Abyss Diana Phi | Bryston ​BHA-1 | Astell&Kern AK240 | McIntosh MR7083 | Oppo BDP105

    "A great challenge of life: Knowing enough to think you are right, but not knowing enough to know when when you are wrong" - Neil deGrasse Tyson

  11. #11

    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jozua View Post
    Easy, 50th years of ARC: Anniversary edition...
    At a Music Matters event in Seattle last spring, I spoke with the ARC guy (his name is escaping me at the moment...Dave Gordon?) discussing this very thing. I mentioned the REF10 is getting a little long in the tooth, five years is a more typical update cycle, and its been about 7+ for the REF10. His answer "next year is our 50th anniversary" and then he stopped talking.

    I will bet a new REF11 will include some advancements that have crept into the REF6 and REF160M -- The REF160 uses a new four layer circuit board, and I believe the REF6 now uses 3 6H30 valves per channel compared to 2 in prior versions like REF5SE. I also expect a delicious new aesthetic more in line with REF6 and REF160M.

    Hey Mike, I'll take a dinner/wine bet if you're still game!
    —Bob V.

    My system: Benz LPS (new cartridge incoming!) , AMG v12 turntable with ‘12JT turbo’ tonearm’, Einstein Turntables' Choice phono-pre (dual mono version), dCS Rossini, Audio Research Ref10 pre, Audio Research REF 160M, Wilson Alexia speakers. Transparent Ref MM2 & Gen5 signal cables, Shunyata SigmaNR, AlphaNR,
    Zitron Python power cables. Shunyata Hydra Triton v3, Stillpoints. HRS. Acoustic environment optimized by Dr. Bonnie Schnitta of SoundSense.

  12. #12
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobvin View Post
    At a Music Matters event in Seattle last spring, I spoke with the ARC guy (his name is escaping me at the moment...Dave Gordon?) discussing this very thing. I mentioned the REF10 is getting a little long in the tooth, five years is a more typical update cycle, and its been about 7+ for the REF10. His answer "next year is our 50th anniversary" and then he stopped talking.

    I will bet a new REF11 will include some advancements that have crept into the REF6 and REF160M -- The REF160 uses a new four layer circuit board, and I believe the REF6 now uses 3 6H30 valves per channel compared to 2 in prior versions like REF5SE. I also expect a delicious new aesthetic more in line with REF6 and REF160M.

    Hey Mike, I'll take a dinner/wine bet if you're still game!
    Uh oh. I better get ready to ship! I still don’t think so. REF10 is so amazing.


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  13. #13
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    I trust jozua has seen the light and know what he is taking about,afterall he was the first one to post here, about arrival of M 160 Amp.
    I would not be surprised if M 260 amp is announced on 25th anniversay.

  14. #14
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Sam5

    Let's see if my wish for adjustable volume outputs for each output will be fulfilled- especially handy when your system runs on multiple amps with different input sensitivity...

    Take care !

    J



    Quote Originally Posted by sam5 View Post
    I trust jozua has seen the light and know what he is taking about,afterall he was the first one to post here, about arrival of M 160 Amp.
    I would not be surprised if M 260 amp is announced on 25th anniversay.

  15. #15
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by sam5 View Post
    I trust jozua has seen the light and know what he is taking about,afterall he was the first one to post here, about arrival of M 160 Amp.
    I would not be surprised if M 260 amp is announced on 25th anniversay.
    50th anniversary. And that would be a cool amp. I could be wrong, time will tell. For now, I’ll stick with the bad ass REF10.


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  16. #16
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    If I could comfortably afford one I would probably give one a try. Even if it didn't sound any better then the Stage 2 I think the prestige and history of ARC might win out.
    Hattor The BIG - AMRG Trans | T+A AMP 8 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000 | Rega RP8 | Rega Ania Pro | MOON (by SimAudio) Neo 310LP | Record Doctor V & VI | T+A DAC 8 DSD | Falcon NW PC | Roon & HQPlayer | Wyred 4 Sound Recovery | KEF R700 | Elac Debut Sub 3010 | Abyss Diana Phi | Bryston ​BHA-1 | Astell&Kern AK240 | McIntosh MR7083 | Oppo BDP105

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  17. #17
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    At Paragons's World of McIntosh event last Thursday I believe someone asked Dave Gordon whether a replacement for the Ref 10 was imminent. His answer was not imminent. They are almost ready to release a stereo version of their latest mono blocks. That will be followed by a integrated amp with modular capabilities for adding a DAC etc.

    I was only half paying attention so I could be slightly off on this response.
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  18. #18

    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    50 years in this industry is a BFD... I completely expect ARC will take full advantage of the marketing opportunity to an even greater extent than they did with 40th anniversary. I think maybe we’ll see the end-of-production of Ref10 phono, Ref10 line stage, possibly REf250se, (each of which is at or beyond typical product life-cycle anyway) to be replaced with Anniversary models of each. No way a company passes up this monumental achievement (50 years) without producing statement products.
    —Bob V.

    My system: Benz LPS (new cartridge incoming!) , AMG v12 turntable with ‘12JT turbo’ tonearm’, Einstein Turntables' Choice phono-pre (dual mono version), dCS Rossini, Audio Research Ref10 pre, Audio Research REF 160M, Wilson Alexia speakers. Transparent Ref MM2 & Gen5 signal cables, Shunyata SigmaNR, AlphaNR,
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  19. #19
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Randy


    Over time I have come to realize that many people enjoy their audio systems like having a sweet of which the taste is soon forgotten. Call it a "Oh that is nice", reaction.

    Then you sometimes by accident find certain products that recreates sound in such a manner than it repeatedly somehow stirs something deep inside you. At that point price really becomes irrelevant.

    Take care.

    J



    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    If I could comfortably afford one I would probably give one a try. Even if it didn't sound any better then the Stage 2 I think the prestige and history of ARC might win out.

  20. #20
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Hmmmm... I don't think I will live long enough by cutting my steak intake in half to "save" for a ref 10.... $30,000 divided by lets say $20 for a good steak. So 1500 less steaks.... hmmm.... Now we have to talk about two steaks an evening.... I know I am big.... but dam .....
    I like that idea. Now if I can only convince my wife it should be retroactive. I quit eating red meat 48 years ago so, even if I ate a steak once a week that would be 2,496 steaks x $20 = $49,920.

    Hopefully she won't bring up eating Stone Crab, Alaskan Halibut or Ahi Tuna. Well it seemed like a good idea for a couple of minutes.
    Synology 1019D+ - SGC Sonictransporter I9 w Roon/HQ Player- UltraRendu- PBD Stream IF to Playback Designs MPS5 via fiber optic - ARC 40th Anniversary Pre - ARC 610 T's - Martin Logan CLX's - 4 Martin Logan Depth i Subs - Shunyata Hydra, IC's and PC's. Audio Quest Vodka CAT 7's. Acoustically treated room with one permanent chair.

  21. #21

    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobvin View Post
    50 years in this industry is a BFD... I completely expect ARC will take full advantage of the marketing opportunity to an even greater extent than they did with 40th anniversary. I think maybe we’ll see the end-of-production of Ref10 phono, Ref10 line stage, possibly REf250se, (each of which is at or beyond typical product life-cycle anyway) to be replaced with Anniversary models of each. No way a company passes up this monumental achievement (50 years) without producing statement products.
    REF250SE is already out of production. Looks like they recently dumped all the remaining stock to certain dealers. Can probably get them NIB for a screaming bargain (16K-18K)
    Amps: D'agostino M400 Mono's, ARC REF 160M, Audio Note Jinro, First Watt SIT-3, Pass XA25, Valvet E2 SE, ARC 150M.

    Pre-Amps: ARC REF 10, Ayre KXR Twenty, Luxman 900U, ARC MP-1 Multi-Channel, Conrad Johnson Met-1 Multi-Channel

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  22. #22
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobvin View Post
    50 years in this industry is a BFD... I completely expect ARC will take full advantage of the marketing opportunity to an even greater extent than they did with 40th anniversary. I think maybe we’ll see the end-of-production of Ref10 phono, Ref10 line stage, possibly REf250se, (each of which is at or beyond typical product life-cycle anyway) to be replaced with Anniversary models of each. No way a company passes up this monumental achievement (50 years) without producing statement products.
    Well put!
    TIDAL Audio Agoria Loudspeakers; Bricasti M28 Monoblocks; VAC "Master" preamplifier; Merrill Audio Christine Reference preamplifier; Bricasti M12 Source Controller/ network player & DAC; Merrill Audio "Jens" Phono Preamplifier, VAC Renaissance Phono Stage; Spiral Groove SG-2 TT with Centroid Arm & Transfiguration Proteus Diamond Cartridge; Ampex ATR-102 Tape Deck; Tape Project/Technics RS1500 reel-reel with BottleHead Tube Repro tape preamp; Sonore Signature RenduSE network player; PS Audio PWT Transport; Ansuz DTC, D2 & C2 cables and DTC power distribution; Symposium Racks and Rollerblocks; Vicoustic, ASC, GIK & MSR room treatments

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  23. #23
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Gents

    The local ARC agent gave me a Ref10 to audition at home. Needless to say, the result was a speedy divorce with the LS 27.

    It is hard to imagine it can get better so I am very keen to see the outcome of the friendly wager between Mike and me ... ?

    Seasons greetings to all.

    Jozua
    Cape Town
    South Africa

  24. #24
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jozua View Post
    Gents

    The local ARC agent gave me a Ref10 to audition at home. Needless to say, the result was a speedy divorce with the LS 27.

    It is hard to imagine it can get better so I am very keen to see the outcome of the friendly wager between Mike and me ... ?

    Seasons greetings to all.

    Jozua
    Cape Town
    South Africa
    What was the date for the replacement we bet on?


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  25. #25

    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Start Tube rolling with some Black Plates from the 1950's and it will get better.
    Amps: D'agostino M400 Mono's, ARC REF 160M, Audio Note Jinro, First Watt SIT-3, Pass XA25, Valvet E2 SE, ARC 150M.

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  26. #26
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    I owned the REF10 for several years before I purchased the MSB Select 2, which sounds better with its own preamp module. The REF10 is a tremendous sounding preamp with amazing dynamics and ease. It utilizes four 6H30 tubes per channel, two input and two output. Everything in the REF6 has trickled down from the REF10. The REF6 uses three 6H30 tubes per channel, one input and two output, as it was designed to straddle between the REF5SE and REF10. Of course, the dual mono power supplies of the REF10 really sets it apart from their other models.

    So, where can they go from here? It’s difficult to improve on the REF10’s brilliant design. Perhaps higher end tubes. Another possibility is to eliminate the coupling capacitors like VAC, which would be a real departure for ARC. I hope ARC offers a tangible improvement rather than change just to put out a newer more expensive model. Time will tell.

    Ken
    "No summit worth climbing is easily attained."
    --------------------------------------------
    Source: MSB Select II DAC with Two Mono Powerbases, Femto 33 Clock, Renderer V2 Digital Input Module and Roon Nucleus Plus
    Amps: Vandersteen M7-HPA Mono Amps
    Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7 Mk2
    Power: Two AudioQuest Niagara 5000’s with AudioQuest Dragon and Hurricane Power Cords

  27. #27

    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    I believe someone posted in the Ref 6SE thread that the new Ref 6SE comes very close in SQ to the Ref 10. Does anyone have any more info on the Ref 6SE? I own a Ref 6 and am thinking about having ARC do the SE upgrade.

    Mike, any thoughts?

    Bifwynne
    System description: VPI Classic "2.7" (basic Classic turntable plinth, with Classic 3 tone arm base and SS wand; upgraded stock Classic 600 rpm motor for 300 rpm motor); Lyra Kleos cartridge; VPI periphery ring and SS clamp; 35 pound maple TT slab base; ARC PH-8 phono pre; ARC Ref 6 linestage; ARC Ref CD-8 CD player; ARC Ref 150 SE power amp; Paradigm Signature 8 (v3)speakers w/ BE dome tweeters; Kimber Hero I/Cs; Kimber speaker cables.

  28. #28
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bifwynne View Post
    I believe someone posted in the Ref 6SE thread that the new Ref 6SE comes very close in SQ to the Ref 10. Does anyone have any more info on the Ref 6SE? I own a Ref 6 and am thinking about having ARC do the SE upgrade.

    Mike, any thoughts?

    Bifwynne
    Mine shipped yesterday. I’ll let you know once I get it and get some hours on it.


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  29. #29
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jozua View Post
    Mike!

    Fine, a good bottle of Cape Wine for you if I am misinformed.. for three SACD's as I suspect the transport cost will be high.

    Unless there is visiting forum member who can pop it in his bag...then only one SACD

    We set the deadline June 2020 for Arc to show their hand.

    J
    Jozua - you got my bottle of Cape Wine picked out yet? Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Mike


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  30. #30
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Mike

    I would not count my chickens until they have hatched... miracles do happen.

    Take care


    Jozua

  31. #31
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jozua View Post
    Mike

    I would not count my chickens until they have hatched... miracles do happen.

    Take care


    Jozua
    You waiting until June 30? Double or nothing and we extend until end of July?



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  32. #32
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Ha!

    Wharfedale Linton w/ stands, Avantgarde Duo XD, Klipsch RB-75, Klipsch RP-160M.

    Luxman 590AX Mark II, Job INTegrated.

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    Misho Myronov Wooden amp, First Watt SIT-3 (x 2 - one as backup), First Watt F7, Job 250 Monos, Valvet E2se, NuForce STA200, AkitikA GT-102 amp, ASL Wave monos, Dennis Had 45 monos. Absolute Audio Labs PCF 25 amp (improved First Watt F7 super clone)

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  33. #33

    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    I'm eating a little crow here... just goes to say maybe my marketing instincts are, well, total crap.

    Actually, I spoke with an ARC guy late winter here in Portland, before the ChinaVirus. He said the ARC focus would be towards their more middle-tier offerings and offered several explanations related to R&D, budgets, etc. Several reference models are end-of-life'd but no mention of replacements (yet).
    —Bob V.

    My system: Benz LPS (new cartridge incoming!) , AMG v12 turntable with ‘12JT turbo’ tonearm’, Einstein Turntables' Choice phono-pre (dual mono version), dCS Rossini, Audio Research Ref10 pre, Audio Research REF 160M, Wilson Alexia speakers. Transparent Ref MM2 & Gen5 signal cables, Shunyata SigmaNR, AlphaNR,
    Zitron Python power cables. Shunyata Hydra Triton v3, Stillpoints. HRS. Acoustic environment optimized by Dr. Bonnie Schnitta of SoundSense.

  34. #34
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Mike

    It seems to me Warren has given you a heads up - and that the gods are looking favourably upon you... not even the birth of a new Ref 80 is going to be good enough for me to forgive ARC.

    Let's see, miracles can still happen D-9

    Take care.

    Jozua

  35. #35
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jozua View Post
    Mike

    It seems to me Warren has given you a heads up - and that the gods are looking favourably upon you... not even the birth of a new Ref 80 is going to be good enough for me to forgive ARC.

    Let's see, miracles can still happen D-9

    Take care.

    Jozua
    Double or nothing for 7/31/20?

    Psst, I doubt you’ll see anything in the world or a REF10 replacement for a year!

    But I don’t know for sure. They are pretty tight lipped. Just a hunch.


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  36. #36
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Double or nothing for 7/31/20?

    Psst, I doubt you’ll see anything in the world or a REF10 replacement for a year!

    But I don’t know for sure. They are pretty tight lipped. Just a hunch.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    Could be true. They don’t say peep.


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  37. #37
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    Re: Ref 10 Replacement in Feb 2020 ?

    Mike

    Congratulations ! I was pretty certain ARC was going to deliver - now the seeds of possible divorce papers have been sown and I waiting for the G -Essence to land on our shores.

    Keep an eye on your mailbox..

    Take care

    Jozua

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