Audio Research REF6 vs. REF10 Preamp

I am considering replacing it with the Ref 10. I have not heard the Ref 10 yet, but agree about the character everyone mentions about the Ref 6. It's a bit aggressive for my taste. But I love its ballsyness, openness, and it's very quiet.


highEndguy said:
Nothing beats the REF10
:)
:D


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mep said:
Joe bought the Ref 6. I don't know if he still has it.
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joeinid said:
Ken,

I think so. I'm not 100% sure where I want to end up.

I really like the new McIntosh C1100 but not sure it's my long term preference.
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Hi Joe,

I love the REF10 but I would think the synergy of the Ayre KX-R Twenty and the Ayre MX-R Twenty would be off the charts. I wouldn't discount the synergy of two components that are specifically designed for each other, especially of that caliber.

Best,
Ken
 
Thank you Ken. I think you are right and will need to make a decision next month. My head says KX-R Twenty. I agree with your opinion of the Ref 6.


Alpinist said:
Hi Joe,

I love the REF10 but I would think the synergy of the Ayre KX-R Twenty and the Ayre MX-R Twenty would be off the charts. I wouldn't discount the synergy of two components that are specifically designed for each other, especially of that caliber.

Best,
Ken
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I would never label the Ref 6 as aggressive or sibilant. Maybe by comparison the Ref 10 sounds smoother, and I hope I get the chance to hear it. The Ref 5SE was a damn fine sounding preamp and the Ref 6 has taken that benchmark to a new level that far exceeds the $1000 price difference in my opinion. The Ref 10 is over 2x more expensive than the Ref 6 plus it is pure dual mono with a big, beefy dual mono power supply in a separate chassis from the line stage. It should be something really, really special.
 
I guess that's why it's really important to hear a piece in your own system to make a conclusive decision. I'd love to hear the Ref 10 as well. I am sure it is an amazing preamp.
 
joeinid said:
Thank you Ken. I think you are right and will need to make a decision next month. My head says KX-R Twenty. I agree with your opinion of the Ref 6.
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You're welcome Joe. I've always been a big proponent of having a matching preamp and amps. And when the preamp is the quality of the Ayre KX-R Twenty, I would find it really difficult to look elsewhere. My Vandersteen M7-HPA mono amps are orphans, which means there is no matching preamp. According to Richard Vandersteen, ARC REF10 or REF6 are the best match due to their neutrality, transparency and detail with some tube smoothness and dimension thrown in.

Best,
Ken
 
mep said:
I would never label the Ref 6 as aggressive or sibilant. Maybe by comparison the Ref 10 sounds smoother, and I hope I get the chance to hear it. The Ref 5SE was a damn fine sounding preamp and the Ref 6 has taken that benchmark to a new level that far exceeds the $1000 price difference in my opinion. The Ref 10 is over 2x more expensive than the Ref 6 plus it is pure dual mono with a big, beefy dual mono power supply in a separate chassis from the line stage. It should be something really, really special.
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Hi Mark,

Having recently heard both the REF6 and the REF10 in the same system, I agree with everything you said. The REF6 does not sound edgy or aggressive unto itself. Only modestly so in comparison to the REF10, which is just silky smooth and refined in the mids and treble. The REF6 is a wonderful sounding preamp and a grand slam at its price point!

Best,
Ken
 
mep said:
I would never label the Ref 6 as aggressive or sibilant. Maybe by comparison the Ref 10 sounds smoother, and I hope I get the chance to hear it. The Ref 5SE was a damn fine sounding preamp and the Ref 6 has taken that benchmark to a new level that far exceeds the $1000 price difference in my opinion. The Ref 10 is over 2x more expensive than the Ref 6 plus it is pure dual mono with a big, beefy dual mono power supply in a separate chassis from the line stage. It should be something really, really special.
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Agreed, aggressive and sibilant are two words that wound never enter into my mind when describing the REF 6.


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Interesting to read these reviews and others. I think the Ref 6 is the best and most neutral tube preamp I have used. I think it brings all the benefits of a tube preamp - allows full amplitude and texture of signal to flow through, and it brings to light and to full extent other parts of a system. If a source or cabling or amp or speakers or synergy between any of those bring edginess or sibilance then the arc ref 6 won't fix or smooth it over. This preamp, for me, combines what I loved about my air tight ref 2001 (organic, and spatial) with my previous Ref 40 preamp (quiet, precise, transparent) and brings out even more of what I love about the equipment I have settled on in my system - eg modified Marantz monos "live, dynamic, textured, non electronic" sound raised a few notches.
 
Elem79 said:
Agreed, aggressive and sibilant are two words that wound never enter into my mind when describing the REF 6.

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MEP used the word "sibilant", not I. IMHO, the REF10 has a smoother and more refined midrange and treble and a wider and deeper soundstage than the REF6. I would expect this at more than double the price. Other sonic characteristics I observed with the REF10 were less forward imaging and a smoother leading edge on attacks. I also said the REF6 is a wonderful sounding preamp and a grand slam at its price point.

Ken
 
Alpinist said:
MEP used the word "sibilant", not I. IMHO, the REF10 has a smoother and more refined midrange and treble and a wider and deeper soundstage than the REF6. I would expect this at more than double the price. Other sonic characteristics I observed with the REF10 were less forward imaging and a smoother leading edge on attacks. I also said the REF6 is a wonderful sounding preamp and a grand slam at its price point.

Ken
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I used the word "sibilant" because someone on this forum who bought a Ref 6 claims it sounds sibilant in their system. The bottom line is that the Ref 6 is a great sounding pre and anyone who wants to ascribe descriptors that are less than flattering that you have never heard anyone else use before to describe the sound of the Ref 6 have to have their comments put into perspective. And by that I mean I would chalk it up to the rest of the gear in their systems and their room. Audiophiles love to mix and "match" gear in their systems and when you use a "brand X" preamp with a "brand Y" power amp, it doesn't always result in you being named alchemist of the year.


alchemist.jpg
 
Alpinist said:
MEP used the word "sibilant", not I. IMHO, the REF10 has a smoother and more refined midrange and treble and a wider and deeper soundstage than the REF6. I would expect this at more than double the price. Other sonic characteristics I observed with the REF10 were less forward imaging and a smoother leading edge on attacks. I also said the REF6 is a wonderful sounding preamp and a grand slam at its price point.

Ken
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Sorry didn't mean to mix that up Ken. I generally wouldn't have said anything, but comments like aggressive and edgy are not flattering at all to the REF 6. I felt compelled to comment to ensure that it's clear that isn't the case for me and in every review I've read, those words were never used. I'm using the REF 6 with a GS150 and never in a million years could I describe it this way. To each his own though.


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Mark/MEP,

Have you heard the ARC Ref 10 in your system? Any system? Do you feel the price of admission is worth it?
 
joeinid said:
Mark/MEP,

Have you heard the ARC Ref 10 in your system? Any system? Do you feel the price of admission is worth it?
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Joe-I have not heard the Ref 10 in my system, but I hope to do so at some point.
 
Thank you Mark. I look forward to your thoughts should it ever happen.

Everyone should know that I am/was a committed Conrad Johnson fan. So my Ref 6 to my ear pre break in was a little bit more "lit from within" than I am used to hearing and I will say to my ear, a tiny bit more aggressive/forward (for lack of a better word) than I am used to hearing. ARC is certainly more neutral than my CJ ever sounded to me. Now that the Ref 6 has a lot more time on it (post break in), it absolutely is smoother and dare I say sweeter than when I first got it.

Ken's description of the Ref 10 vs Ref 6 has me intrigued and I want to hear a comparison at some point. Ken's description has me feeling that that is EXACTLY how I want my preamp to sound, like the Ref 10 (based on what he heard). I have some gear churning next month and I hope to get to hear the Ref 10 before I make any plans/decisions.

I've said it before, I can't handle the truth. I love a little smoother/sweeter sound to my music. So I love what I love. It's my system. :peace:

Another data point for everyone. I love Pass amps (sweet and warm and dimensional), don't like their preamps (a bit aggressive, bright to my ear). I love Ayre, both amps and preamps (never aggressive or bright, very sweet and great tone). CJ hands down overall favorite for both amps and preamp. I am getting a taste for ARC and realize how important system matching is for the brand.

mep said:
Joe-I have not heard the Ref 10 in my system, but I hope to do so at some point.
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I'm with Dpod4. If you are a CJ sound guy at heart then ARC, BAT and others of a similar vein that use the "super tube" will never be right for you no matter how much "good press" they get and how much you try to like them. If you want a tube preamp and you need it to have balanced outputs then look for that and forget about the brand name. They are out there and they may not cost over 5 figures or have a major advertising presence. If you are drawn to the sound of CJ, Job, Nord and others then the other side of the voicing will never sound "right" to you for anything but a short time and then you will be looking to sell again and move on. If the Ayre combo sounds right together then stick with it. From my readings the Ayre preamps are the "stars" of the lineup. What your ears hear is all that matters in the end.
 
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