ARC REF6SE Review

Unfortunately this is one of the worst written reviews I have read in Stereophile. Honestly I am surprised that it was published.
 
Audio 1 said:
Unfortunately this is one of the worst written reviews I have read in Stereophile. Honestly I am surprised that it was published.
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And I thought it was me. I agree 100% with Audio 1. It seemed like the reviewer could only get the Ref 6SE to perform when he tricked and tweaked it up.

So, ... my new Ref 6SE should be shipped to me this week. The Ref 6SE replaces my Ref 6. After the new unit breaks in, I will share comments. I have no intention of tricking and tweaking the Ref 6SE up. It will be a play and listen exercise. To be honest, I am somewhat dubious that the hype around upgraded caps and wires will make all that much of a difference, ... but I look forward to being pleasantly surprised.

I will report back soon.

BIF
 
Bifwynne said:
And I thought it was me. I agree 100% with Audio 1. It seemed like the reviewer could only get the Ref 6SE to perform when he tricked and tweaked it up.

So, ... my new Ref 6SE should be shipped to me this week. The Ref 6SE replaces my Ref 6. After the new unit breaks in, I will share comments. I have no intention of tricking and tweaking the Ref 6SE up. It will be a play and listen exercise. To be honest, I am somewhat dubious that the hype around upgraded caps and wires will make all that much of a difference, ... but I look forward to being pleasantly surprised.

I will report back soon.

BIF
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My Ref 6SE was delivered a few days ago. I only have 10 hours on it. Was streaming music with the volume turned down. At this point, so early in, all I can say is that the sound is changing and it is "getting interesting." Clearly different from the Ref 6, ... just not sure where it will wind up.

I'll post more comments as the Ref 6SE breaks in. I suspect it will not begin settle down until I rack up at least 50 to 100 hours of play.
 
Bifwynne said:
My Ref 6SE was delivered a few days ago. I only have 10 hours on it. Was streaming music with the volume turned down. At this point, so early in, all I can say is that the sound is changing and it is "getting interesting." Clearly different from the Ref 6, ... just not sure where it will wind up.

I'll post more comments as the Ref 6SE breaks in. I suspect it will not begin settle down until I rack up at least 50 to 100 hours of play.
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Buddy of mine who pops on here now and then upgraded his 6 to the SE and loves it saying it’s not a subtle difference.

Hope you get the same from it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
UltraFast69 said:
Buddy of mine who pops on here now and then upgraded his 6 to the SE and loves it saying it’s not a subtle difference.

Hope you get the same from it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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UltraFast69, ... I racked up over 100 hours of play time on my ARC Ref 6SE. Yes, ... it sounds great and brings a lot more of everything out of the music. I hear details that I missed before. Soundstage is deeper and more 3D. Low end is much tighter.

For the sake of full disclosure, the transport in my 9 year old (not counting the former owner's use) ARC CD-8 started to glitch out. I reluctantly decided to replace the CD-8 with an ARC Ref CD 9SE because repairs to the CD-8 transport would not have been cost effective.

So, ... yes, I hear significant SQ improvements across the board. My dilemna is I can't tell which unit (i.e., the Ref 6 or Ref CD-9) accounts for the SQ improvements. But taken together, the 2 units sound fantastic; clear improvement over my legacy Ref 6 and CD-8.

I will post more comments if there is more to report as break-in continues.
 
I thought the same thing and thought I was missing something. Agree. Surprising.
 
I just upgraded to SE on my Ref 6. I’ll add that the difference is clear. The most stringing observation so far is that it sounds “quicker” — a couple of times the music attack had me almost jumping out of my seat. Whether the change is worth the cost and hassle is of course a personal decision. I missed me Ref 6 during the upgrade but ARC turned it around quickly for me. I’d do it again.
 
The REF6SE (and REF3SE phono) are two substantial upgrades REF6/REF3 owners can make. If buying new, these two products really get you eerily close to their REF10 siblings. It reminds me of the REF5 to REF5SE upgrade, but frankly, even more of a significant improvement.
 
It takes so long to burn in the ARC preamps. My REF10 took 600 hours before it even started sounding good. At 1,000 hours I heard no further improvement, just exquisite!

Ken
 
Alpinist said:
It takes so long to burn in the ARC preamps. My REF10 took 600 hours before it even started sounding good. At 1,000 hours I heard no further improvement, just exquisite!

Ken
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I bought the Ref 5SE brand new and later upgraded to a brand new Ref 6. Both the Ref 5SE and the Ref 6 sounded really good right out of the box. Now of course both came with a yellow piece of paper that said it would take 600 hours for the units to burn in so this settles in people's minds and they think their new preamp isn't really going to sound good until it hits 600 hours. I talked to Dave Gordon from ARC about the long burn in and I told him it doesn't take 600 hours to break in from my experience. Dave agreed and said they should change the 600 hour piece of paper. I don't know if that ever happened.

Based on personal experience, a much bigger concern than fretting over burn in is not waiting until the 6550 in the power supply reaches 2,000 hours before you replace it in accordance with the owner's manual. I was told that I should replace them at 1,000 hours. When they blow, they make a spectacular noise with a big flash of light and they take out some parts on the circuit board adjacent to the 6550. Having paid for a round trip to ship my Ref 6 back to ARC plus parts and labor, I'm a firm believer in replacing the 6550s in my Ref 3 phono and Ref 6 line stage when they hit the 1,000 mark. The good news of sending my Ref 6 back is that I received an upgrade to the sensitivity of the remote control and I was given a new thicker top cover which is now standard. The original covers could/would sag from the heat of the 6550. My top cover on the Ref 5SE sagged. When it did, I would just flip it over and the heat would pull the cover back to being flat. That never happened with my Ref 6, but I'm glad to have a new thicker top cover.
 
mep said:
I bought the Ref 5SE brand new and later upgraded to a brand new Ref 6. Both the Ref 5SE and the Ref 6 sounded really good right out of the box. Now of course both came with a yellow piece of paper that said it would take 600 hours for the units to burn in so this settles in people's minds and they think their new preamp isn't really going to sound good until it hits 600 hours. I talked to Dave Gordon from ARC about the long burn in and I told him it doesn't take 600 hours to break in from my experience. Dave agreed and said they should change the 600 hour piece of paper. I don't know if that ever happened.

Based on personal experience, a much bigger concern than fretting over burn in is not waiting until the 6550 in the power supply reaches 2,000 hours before you replace it in accordance with the owner's manual. I was told that I should replace them at 1,000 hours. When they blow, they make a spectacular noise with a big flash of light and they take out some parts on the circuit board adjacent to the 6550. Having paid for a round trip to ship my Ref 6 back to ARC plus parts and labor, I'm a firm believer in replacing the 6550s in my Ref 3 phono and Ref 6 line stage when they hit the 1,000 mark.
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Mep,

So how many hours do think break-in takes. Based on reviews and some ARC buzz, I think a lot (maybe most??) of break-in occurs at the 100 hour mark. Not sure how much more after that. What is your opinion?

Also, your advice regarding the 6550 power supply tube is very important. I must confess that in all the years I owned a Ref 5SE, Ref 6 (before SE upgrade), and Ref CD-8, I would replace the 6550 tube around the 2000 hour mark, ... maybe a few hundred hours less. Never have I heard or thankfully experienced a catastrophic blow out in the power supply section. That said, when I owned the VS-115, the 6550 power supply tubes blew a couple of times and took out a bias resister.

Did someone from ARC advise you to replace the 6550s at the 1000 hour mark? Your post implies that a 6550 blew on your watch. Is that so?

Thanks

Bruce
 
I had an ARC 40th anniversary preamp with the REF250 monos. The sound did not change considerably after the first 40-50 hours and I certainly lost track of it after that. 600 hrs is difficult to keep track of and my ears never picked up on anything significant anyways. I did not find the synergy I was looking for with that setup so I sold it to a friend with perhaps 300, maybe 400 hrs on the set. Shortly thereafter, one of the amps blew a fuse and it was not just a fuse... Some manufacturers drive their tubes pretty hard, I think ARC might be one of them?
 
Bifwynne said:
Mep,

So how many hours do think break-in takes. Based on reviews and some ARC buzz, I think a lot (maybe most??) of break-in occurs at the 100 hour mark. Not sure how much more after that. What is your opinion?
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In my personal experience, all of my ARC gear sounded great out of the box and I never suffered any of the ups and downs some other people claim to hear during the break-in process. I personally don't think that past 100 hours that any miracles are going to arrive.

Bifwynne said:
Also, your advice regarding the 6550 power supply tube is very important. I must confess that in all the years I owned a Ref 5SE, Ref 6 (before SE upgrade), and Ref CD-8, I would replace the 6550 tube around the 2000 hour mark, ... maybe a few hundred hours less. Never have I heard or thankfully experienced a catastrophic blow out in the power supply section. That said, when I owned the VS-115, the 6550 power supply tubes blew a couple of times and took out a bias resister.

Did someone from ARC advise you to replace the 6550s at the 1000 hour mark? Your post implies that a 6550 blew on your watch. Is that so?

Thanks

Bruce
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Yes, the 6550 in my Ref 6 blew in spectacular fashion. And yes, the tech at ARC that repaired my Ref 6 advised me to replace the 6550s used in the power supplies at 1,000 hours. I have to assume he came to that conclusion based on how many times he has had to repair gear because a 6550 blew before it hit 2,000 hours. I used to have my Ref 3 phono and Ref 6 sitting side by side on the same shelf on my rack. They put out a lot of BTUs together because each has a 6550 in the power supply.
 
mep said:
In my personal experience, all of my ARC gear sounded great out of the box and I never suffered any of the ups and downs some other people claim to hear during the break-in process. I personally don't think that past 100 hours that any miracles are going to arrive.

Yes, the 6550 in my Ref 6 blew in spectacular fashion. And yes, the tech at ARC that repaired my Ref 6 advised me to replace the 6550s used in the power supplies at 1,000 hours. I have to assume he came to that conclusion based on how many times he has had to repair gear because a 6550 blew before it hit 2,000 hours. I used to have my Ref 3 phono and Ref 6 sitting side by side on the same shelf on my rack. They put out a lot of BTUs together because each has a 6550 in the power supply.
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Thanks Mep, ... this is definitely an important issue. Blown tubes ... happen all the time, but for me, never a 6550 PS tube. I will follow up on this issue. Heck, 6550 tubes ain't all that expensive. I'm cool switching the 6550 PS tubes out at 1000 hours.
 
Bifwynne said:
Thanks Mep, ... this is definitely an important issue. Blown tubes ... happen all the time, but for me, never a 6550 PS tube. I will follow up on this issue. Heck, 6550 tubes ain't all that expensive. I'm cool switching the 6550 PS tubes out at 1000 hours.
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Replacing the 6550 at 1,000 hours is much cheaper than just the cost of the round trip shipping. Never mind the cost of parts and labor. I also recommend buying the 6550 for the the power supply from ARC even though they are more expensive than other vendors. ARC knows the stress they are putting on the 6550 in the power supply and I’m sure they are testing and grading 6550s that will be used in the power supplies.
 
Here's my report from two days of testing the Ref6 versus the Ref6SE with four people, which includes myself: My initial impressions were that the Ref6SE was more laid back sounding and slightly smoother especially in the mids versus the Ref6, which had a more forward presentation in the mids. However this was comparing 6n6p tubes in the Ref6 against the factory tubes in the Ref6SE.

I tested with Person A on the next day, and he liked the Ref6SE better in every test and had no idea which unit was which. He does not have an audiophile background, but played several instruments and was in the radio industry for quite some time. He described the Ref6SE as "clearer."

Person B and C had the same thoughts as each other and were also tested blind on the same day as Person A but in a separate session. They thought the Ref6 with the factory tubes sounded the best. Unlike Person A, Persons B and C thought the Ref6 was more transparent, but that the Ref6SE had more density. They thought the Ref6SE sounded more tubey. Interestingly, they suspected that they liked the Ref6SE better with the 6n6p tubes and the Ref6 better with the factory tubes, which I ended up testing after they left, but couldn't really notice any differences probably due to fatigue at that point.

Ultimately, we all agreed that the upgrade was not worth the cost, and I was not even sure if I could distinguish between the two if blind-tested once we used the same tubes. Ideally, I like to test blind and sighted with short A/B comparisons and by listening to full albums and on multiple days and over a long period, but since this was a dealer demo, unfortunately, we didn't have the luxury of doing that. I will also say that I know that components can yield different results in different systems but just wanted to provide my experience with the two preamps in my system as a data point for others.
 
limniscate said:
Here's my report from two days of testing the Ref6 versus the Ref6SE with four people, which includes myself: My initial impressions were that the Ref6SE was more laid back sounding and slightly smoother especially in the mids versus the Ref6, which had a more forward presentation in the mids. However this was comparing 6n6p tubes in the Ref6 against the factory tubes in the Ref6SE.

I tested with Person A on the next day, and he liked the Ref6SE better in every test and had no idea which unit was which. He does not have an audiophile background, but played several instruments and was in the radio industry for quite some time. He described the Ref6SE as "clearer."

Person B and C had the same thoughts as each other and were also tested blind on the same day as Person A but in a separate session. They thought the Ref6 with the factory tubes sounded the best. Unlike Person A, Persons B and C thought the Ref6 was more transparent, but that the Ref6SE had more density. They thought the Ref6SE sounded more tubey. Interestingly, they suspected that they liked the Ref6SE better with the 6n6p tubes and the Ref6 better with the factory tubes, which I ended up testing after they left, but couldn't really notice any differences probably due to fatigue at that point.

Ultimately, we all agreed that the upgrade was not worth the cost, and I was not even sure if I could distinguish between the two if blind-tested once we used the same tubes. Ideally, I like to test blind and sighted with short A/B comparisons and by listening to full albums and on multiple days and over a long period, but since this was a dealer demo, unfortunately, we didn't have the luxury of doing that. I will also say that I know that components can yield different results in different systems but just wanted to provide my experience with the two preamps in my system as a data point for others.
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Sounds like it was a very confusing/fatiguing test and further complicated by using different input tubes for the Ref 6SE.
 
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