bit confused about racks

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paleo12

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Hi,

I'm new on this forum, and hope I can get some help about choosing a rack.

I am considering buying an Esoteric K03xd to replace my K05x. This is quite a tall unit, so I will have to buy a new rack to accommodate it. Looking on the internet for racks, and information about racks, I have become a bit confused: lots of contradictory opinions, materials, prices etc.
My living room has a suspended wooden floor, with a layer of very heavy sound proofing underneath a carpet. On this floor stands my present rack, on castors, and spiked PMC Fact 12s and 2 Velodyne DD10 subs.
The internet tells me that racks should provide isolation for the hifi components, but also that energy has to be able to drain away. In my situation, the speakers generate some vibration in the floor, which the components are not isolated from. Some people think that spikes provide isolation, others that they actually couple. I gather that the transport of the K03xd is quite well isolated within the case.
The space for the rack would only be about 55cm (22”) width wise. As the floor is not level, I think it would be a good idea to get a rack that can be levelled.
At present, I am considering three options: an Townshend rack, an Audio Suspension rack, and having a rack made by a joiner. The Townshend rack sits on springs, with its glass shelves held by isolating pads. The Audio Suspension rack has spikes, and is very shiny. It relies on the properties of thick Perspex to provide isolation. All three rack would be custom made.
I would be grateful for suggestions and information.
 
I can only say mechanical isolation is a contributor on sound quality, you are on the right track!

Let us know what you come up with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Thanks. They look amazing. Can't find a UK source immediately; I assume the shipping costs for something that heavy would be prohibitive.

I'm trying to understand the thinking behind their design. They say that the vibrational energy will flow out of the equipment into the floor. Would it not be possible then for vibrational energy generated by, say, subwoofers to flow the other way?
 
what is mechanical isolation?

to my understanding: the units vibration should dissipate by traveling. rather around the footers and the shelves than into the floor.
the other topic is whats coming from the floor. so between the rack and the floor anything that slows the vibration is welcome.
here absorbation is the right thing while the wrong approach close to the unit.
 
paleo12 said:
Hi,

I'm new on this forum, and hope I can get some help about choosing a rack.

I am considering buying an Esoteric K03xd to replace my K05x. This is quite a tall unit, so I will have to buy a new rack to accommodate it. Looking on the internet for racks, and information about racks, I have become a bit confused: lots of contradictory opinions, materials, prices etc.
My living room has a suspended wooden floor, with a layer of very heavy sound proofing underneath a carpet. On this floor stands my present rack, on castors, and spiked PMC Fact 12s and 2 Velodyne DD10 subs.
The internet tells me that racks should provide isolation for the hifi components, but also that energy has to be able to drain away. In my situation, the speakers generate some vibration in the floor, which the components are not isolated from. Some people think that spikes provide isolation, others that they actually couple. I gather that the transport of the K03xd is quite well isolated within the case.
The space for the rack would only be about 55cm (22”) width wise. As the floor is not level, I think it would be a good idea to get a rack that can be levelled.
At present, I am considering three options: an Townshend rack, an Audio Suspension rack, and having a rack made by a joiner. The Townshend rack sits on springs, with its glass shelves held by isolating pads. The Audio Suspension rack has spikes, and is very shiny. It relies on the properties of thick Perspex to provide isolation. All three rack would be custom made.
I would be grateful for suggestions and information.
Click to expand...

Your best solution for providing isolation for your speakers and to keep them from coupling to floors, the walls (yes, the walls, drywall has a resonant frequency of...70 Hz.) and rack are the EVPs from Norm Varney at AV Roomservice. The other thing that is nice is that they are quite affordable compared to other footers or isolation systems. You can get whatever size and specification for supporting the weight of your speakers is here: EVP Equipment Vibration Protectors | A/V RoomService, Ltd.

You'll also find these videos to be informative:


and many more informative videos here:
AV RoomService - YouTube
 
Hi, thanks for that. At this point, I was actually not looking to isolate the speakers, but this product looks interesting. I had a quick look online, and haven't found it in the UK so far.

It certainly has a very different approach to things than the Mapleshade racks, which seems to be all about coupling, not decoupling.

I have come across the idea that speakers should not be able to move, especially not in the same direction as the diaphragms. If they can, this would dissipate the sound energy. Putting the speakers on spikes on a wooden floor anchors them to the floor, but makes the floor into a sounding board. This may or may not produce a more attractive sound, but will obviously mean that vibration may travel into other equipment when that is not isolated from the floor. Putting the speakers on anything soft decouples them from the floor, but may allow movement. Do you find that speakers on the EVPs allow movement in the speakers?

The main culprits when it comes to vibration in my room are the subs. Were I to raise these subs more than an inch or so from the floor, I would also have to buy another rack for my television. The EVPs might well fit, provided they compress.

Your post, and the one about the Mappleshade racks, has been instructive, and while my confusion about coupling/decoupling remains, I feel it has moved to a different level.

At present, I am thinking that isolating the subs and leaving the main speakers be, while either getting a rack that isolates, or isolating just the cd player on a non-isolating rack, may be the way to go.
 
Very much available in Europe, Artesania racks from Spain are excellent for isolation. Also, for consideration the Rack Of Silence from Solid Tech May be a good option at a more reasonable price.
 
Thanks for that; they both look like excellent racks. Unfortunately, they won't fit in the available space.
 
I am confused about the use of glass shelves. Doesn't glass windows and sliding doors suck the bass and life out of the sound? Why don't Glass shelves do the same? When I was a younger AudioTyke, I was always told to never get a rack or cabinet with glass shelves.
 
Hi, I had not come across the idea that glass windows "suck the bass and life out of the sound". When I am in a busy room, a restaurant for example, I am sometimes aware of the acoustics of the room: when there are few soft surfaces, there is a lot of sound reflection, making it quite hard for me to hear what my friend is saying. This is an age thing, up to a point I imagine. Glass, being hard, might well cause that to occur.

Glass shelves, according to some, are prone to "ringing". I have not found out whether this would be an audible effect or a sympathetic vibration with the music that cannot necessarily be heard, but might affect the device sitting on it.

For me, I find the whole audiophile endeavour interesting but baffling: one reads of the quantum processes in cables and the psycho-accoustic characteristics of large sofas. Debates between the "engineers" and the "subjectivists" can become quite heated. I am not a scientist, nor do I have the money or the inclination to experiment with a great many racks, say, in my living room. All I can do is try to assess the plausibility of various claims to the best of my ability, seek advice, and then take the plunge, based on a necessary incomplete understanding, and some kind of cost/benefit approach, while keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best.
 
My .02 cents is "hardwood". It dissipates vibration, isolates, looks goddamn nice & nine times out of ten it's cheaper than some jumped up rack with the latest greatest. Do some experimenting & go to your nearest building supply store. get cork, rubber, soft wood, hard wood, all very small off-cut/coasters that cost a pittance to put your speakers on. Within a week your learning curve will have accelerated through the roof
 
bzr said:
My .02 cents is "hardwood". It dissipates vibration, isolates, looks goddamn nice & nine times out of ten it's cheaper than some jumped up rack with the latest greatest. Do some experimenting & go to your nearest building supply store. get cork, rubber, soft wood, hard wood, all very small off-cut/coasters that cost a pittance to put your speakers on. Within a week your learning curve will have accelerated through the roof
Click to expand...

I like hardwood, thick hardwood. Adona is built here in my hometown and comparing a rack with granite shelves, and those isolation suspension points against my Timbernation maple hardwood rack, well I took the hardwood., Case in point, I have a Seismometer app on my phone., Its sensitive. I can lay my phone on my TT, and jump all 238 lbs of me up and down on my concrete slab with tile and a wool rug, and the needle doesn't move. , The other rack, the needle moves on the app even setting on Hebbies. I'll take thick hardwood any day. Of course just my opinion.
 
Hardwood may be the way to go. I had a chat with a joiner I know, and we're thinking of building a rack. Possibly putting EVPs from AV Roomservice under it. I gather they may become available in the UK in the near future. This idea would produce a combination of mass and isolation.
 
CPP said:
I like hardwood, thick hardwood. Adona is built here in my hometown and comparing a rack with granite shelves, and those isolation suspension points against my Timbernation maple hardwood rack, well I took the hardwood., Case in point, I have a Seismometer app on my phone., Its sensitive. I can lay my phone on my TT, and jump all 238 lbs of me up and down on my concrete slab with tile and a wool rug, and the needle doesn't move. , The other rack, the needle moves on the app even setting on Hebbies. I'll take thick hardwood any day. Of course just my opinion.
Click to expand...

interesting feedback. i apologize for all the questions below, but there are so many rack issues of context that i'm wanting to fully understand.

Adona makes a number of racks. to my knowledge Adona does not have racks with isolation suspension points (maybe it's something new). it would be helpful to know which model you used? and with the Adona did you use spikes? and did those spikes get through your carpet into the concrete?

does your wood rack weigh more than the particular Adona rack you tried? and does your wood rack have flat feet, or spikes?

and can you provide a link to the 'Hebbies'? thanks. did you use the 'Hebbies' with your wood rack too? it appears that the VPI Classic 1 turntable uses integral decoupling footers. did you bypass those footers with the Hebbies? or place the VPI footers on top of the Hebbies?

the idea of a solid steel/aluminum rack (Adona) is to provide a solid base for footers you would use between the granite shelves and your gear. in essence the footers are then an impedance layer. solid wood will add lots of mass, but also will have it's own resonance too. do you use decoupling footers under your gear on your wood shelves?
 
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