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  1. #1
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    Help build my list of amps to try

    Would like to try out some amps around a Lumin X1 and Scansonic MB3.5 B. Will do my best to describe my constraints and preferences. Just looking for any subjective thoughts or input, if you're game.

    • Budget ~<$10k, new or used.
    • Form factor is important. Has to be less than 18" deep, around 16" is ideal (width/height don't matter as much). Weight <80 max, prefer <60.
    • Prefer a stereo amp in one chassis, but would consider monoblocks.
    • Not looking for an integrated, but would consider if all else is right. Simpler the better. Lumin out to the amp; I have no other input needs.
    • I listen mostly low-mid volumes, sitting about 9 feet from the front plane of the speakers. Mostly jazz, classic rock, classical (baroque, orchestral, piano), alt-country, world/eclectic. Nothing too heavy really, beyond the occasional Sabbath or Rush disc.
    • I like part of @joeinid 's description of the Enleum: "an open, lit from within sound". Also: big soundstage, placement/separation precision and air, speed, a good thwack of a drum hit, vocals like they're in the room. Organic and musical.


    On the list for possible rotating in:
    Enleum 23r, Bakoon 41/51, NAD M23, T+A Amp 200, Ayre VX-R, Soulution 311, something Gryphon

    (yeah, I suspect these may be very different from each other and some may be challenging to find in budget)
    Lumin X1 | Enleum 23r | Scansonic MB3.5 B
    Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 8 ICs | Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 Ethernet (L1->X1)
    Zu IBIS speaker cable
    Ayre L-x5e Line Filter | Shunyata Alpha ZiTron Digital, Transparent Premium Powerlink MM2 PCs
    Lumin L1 NAS | Qobuz

  2. #2
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Class A AmpCamp amps run as bridged monos availble from the DIYAudio store.

    A whopping, budget-busting $654 for the pair. Gotta build 'em yourself, though.





    Designed by Nelson, so there ya go...

  3. #3
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Those are actually pretty good looking. How do you characterize the sound?
    Lumin X1 | Enleum 23r | Scansonic MB3.5 B
    Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 8 ICs | Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 Ethernet (L1->X1)
    Zu IBIS speaker cable
    Ayre L-x5e Line Filter | Shunyata Alpha ZiTron Digital, Transparent Premium Powerlink MM2 PCs
    Lumin L1 NAS | Qobuz

  4. #4
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by jmusica View Post
    [/LIST]

    On the list for possible rotating in:
    Enleum 23r, Bakoon 41/51, NAD M22, T+A Amp 200, Ayre VX-R, Soulution 311, something Gryphon

    (yeah, I suspect these may be very different from each other and some may be challenging to find in budget)
    Just a quick note - ditch the NAD M22 and replace with the brand new M23. So new it isn't even on the NAD site yet, but one national distributor has it on their site. It uses the excellent Purifi module, as found in the M33 all-in-one.

    NAD M23 – ultimativer High-End Stereo Effektverstarker

    Peter
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33, NAD M12, Consonance Cyber 845 monoblocs (now sold)
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified, Martin Logan Expression 13A (now sold)

  5. #5
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by jmusica View Post
    Those are actually pretty good looking. How do you characterize the sound?
    Well, they are full Class A monoblocks designed by Nelson Pass, so that should give you a clue. They’re wonderful; not the biggest baddest bottom-end, but they sure make beautiful music. Listen to them in the quasi-nearfield and they’re pretty amazing.

  6. #6
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by Puma Cat View Post
    Class A AmpCamp amps run as bridged monos availble from the DIYAudio store.

    A whopping, budget-busting $654 for the pair. Gotta build 'em yourself, though.





    Designed by Nelson, so there ya go...
    Are those yours , I would Suggest any one interested to try and give those a listen , they are not for everyone..!


    Regards
    * An Audiophile is only as old as his tweeters ..!!

  7. #7
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    I would suggest adding Bryston to your list of choices, of which the 3B3 or 4B3 would be good options based on your criteria. I think they would provide clarity, detail, and realism considering your inclusion of jazz and classical.
    Neko Audio
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  8. #8
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    What speakers ?
    TUBEZATOR

    preamp ML26
    amps ML No.33
    Infinity IRS-V speakers with Xover redone by Arie Nudell.




  9. #9

    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Why the M23 when it is practically the same as the NAD C298 (also a Purifi amp) but around $1,500 more expensive. Purifi is actually about to release a somewhat more powerful module, the 7040, which will put out 250 wpc into 8 ohms and stable down to 2 ohms vs. around 200 wpc in the version found in the M33/C298.

    Here’s info on the new Purifi module:

    Purifi presents Pure Sound amplifier module - Alpha Audio NET

  10. #10
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    Are those yours , I would Suggest any one interested to try and give those a listen , they are not for everyone..!


    Regards
    Yes, they're mine and I built them myself, too. They sound quite wonderful.

  11. #11
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by Alrainbow View Post
    What speakers ?
    Scansonic MB3.5 B
    Lumin X1 | Enleum 23r | Scansonic MB3.5 B
    Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 8 ICs | Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 Ethernet (L1->X1)
    Zu IBIS speaker cable
    Ayre L-x5e Line Filter | Shunyata Alpha ZiTron Digital, Transparent Premium Powerlink MM2 PCs
    Lumin L1 NAS | Qobuz

  12. #12

    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    Are those yours , I would Suggest any one interested to try and give those a listen , they are not for everyone..!


    Regards
    Besides that, these amps when configured as monoblocks put out 15 watts at clipping with 3% distortion and he is recommending them for use with speakers that have a sensitivity of 89dB 1w/1m and with a nominal impedance of 5 ohms.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

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  13. #13
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by mep View Post
    Besides that, these amps when configured as monoblocks put out 15 watts at clipping with 3% distortion and he is recommending them for use with speakers that have a sensitivity of 89dB 1w/1m and with a nominal impedance of 5 ohms.
    And beside that 90 audiophile dB and physical reality are two separate things.
    No feedback = amp "sounds" like the speakers impedance. JMusica would have to decide if that sort of business is to his liking, as the dice rolls.
    I'd suggest an amp with some cajones.
    YMMV.

    cheers,

    AJ

  14. #14

    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Soundfield View Post
    And beside that 90 audiophile dB and physical reality are two separate things.
    No feedback = amp "sounds" like the speakers impedance. JMusica would have to decide if that sort of business is to his liking, as the dice rolls.
    I'd suggest an amp with some cajones.
    YMMV.

    cheers,

    AJ
    That was my point. A 15 watt amp won't cut it with his speakers.
    Micro Seiki SX-8000 air bearing table, SME 312s arm, SME 3012R arn, Dynavector XV-1s cartridge, Lyra Etna SL cartridge, ARC Ref 3 phono stage, Otari MX-55 2 track R2R, Ampex 350 tape repros, Roon Nucleus Plus music server, PS Audio DSJ DAC, ARC Ref 6, ARC Ref 75 with KT-150s, JBL 4345 speakers, Viero Equilibro Level 3 speaker cables, and Definitive Technology Ref subs.

    Reviewer for Positive Feedback

  15. #15
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    Just a quick note - ditch the NAD M22 and replace with the brand new M23. So new it isn't even on the NAD site yet, but one national distributor has it on their site. It uses the excellent Purifi module, as found in the M33 all-in-one.

    NAD M23 – ultimativer High-End Stereo Effektverstarker

    Peter
    Or save a little $$$ and get the C 298... same amp that is in the M33 but in a basic black box. I'm just checked out the M23. You are paying a lot for the casing and the M series premium. The C 298 has many more usable features such as being able to bridge it and a pass-through function to run subs directly off it (with a gain control).

    This past year the C 298 won about every award that an amplifier can win. It is the first Class D amp that sounds as good as any other tech I have tried. None of the other Class Ds ever worked out for me. Obviously, I would also consider the T+A Series 200. A lot more $$$ but I do like T+A. I think the Purifier amps are proving themselves with companies like NAD and T+A licensing the tech!

    I too am sick of huge heavy amps. To me 50-60 pounds is very much my upper limit, which eliminates McIntosh .
    McIntosh C49, MR85, MC7100W, R778 | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM740ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQ Player) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | HeadAmp GS-X Mini | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
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  16. #16
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by RDSChicago View Post
    Why the M23 when it is practically the same as the NAD C298 (also a Purifi amp) but around $1,500 more expensive. Purifi is actually about to release a somewhat more powerful module, the 7040, which will put out 250 wpc into 8 ohms and stable down to 2 ohms vs. around 200 wpc in the version found in the M33/C298.

    Here’s info on the new Purifi module:

    Purifi presents Pure Sound amplifier module - Alpha Audio NET
    Thanks for the update on a new Purifi module.

    The NAD C range is simply not as good as their Master Series - and it's not just the casework.

    It may have nominally the same Purifi module, but the one used in the M33 and M23 are built under license by NAD, so one has to presume that they do this with surerior components to achieve the sound quality they do. Whether the module in the C series is an OEM from Purifi or the bespoke version, I have no idea. The socketry at the back panel is obviously better in the M series and probably the internal wiring too. Whether the power supply to the amp module is common to M and C series, again I don't know, but I suspect that theae are the areas where NAD can economise in the C series and still offer "good" though perhaps not the "exceptional" sound quality they achieve with the M serios. Whichever way you look at it, the M series offers exceptional value too, when compared with other amps costing far more.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33, NAD M12, Consonance Cyber 845 monoblocs (now sold)
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified, Martin Logan Expression 13A (now sold)

  17. #17
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    Or save a little $$$ and get the C298... same amp that is in the M33 but in a basic black box. I'm just checked out the M23. You are paying a lot for the casing and the M series premium. The C298 has many more usable features such as being able to bridge it and a pass through function to run subs directly off it (with a gain control).

    This past year the C298 won about every award that an amplifier can win. It is the first Class D amp that sounds as good as any other tech I have tried. None of the other Class Ds ever worked out for me. Obviously, I would also consider the T+A Series 200. A lot more $$$ but I do like T+A. I think the Purifier amps are proving themselves with companies like NAD and T+A licensing the tech!

    I too am sick of huge heavy amps. To me 50-60 pounds is very much my upper limit, which eliminates McIntosh .
    Randy - I've just read your post, but my post #16 should answer your questions of M23 vs C298. You mention bridging. Take a look at the M23 back panel and you'll see that it is designed to be bridged, probably in conjunction with the M33 or M12 plus 2 x M23. As far as Awards are concerned, take a look at the M33's trophy cabinet! 3 from Stereophile alone - Best Amp, Best Component of the Year and Editor's choice.
    Sources - NAD M50.2 (streamer, CD player, CD ripper, hard drive music store)
    Amplification - NAD M33, NAD M12, Consonance Cyber 845 monoblocs (now sold)
    Speakers - Avantgarde Duo XD, Avantgarde Duo (2006) - both aesthetically modified, Martin Logan Expression 13A (now sold)

  18. #18
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Yes, exactly, the M33, which was out first has won all kinds of awards. Then C 298 came out later and could be used with the M33. It is built the same as the M series according to NAD and several reviews that I have read, only the C 298 is only an amplifier while the M33 does a whole lot more.

    By saying that the C 298 won about every award an amplifier could did not insinuate that the M33 had not. It did win tons a year or two before the C 298 came out. Therefore, the models that NAD offer where they license the Purifier technology are all fantastic. All NAD's do not use these amps though for the remainder of their lineup, only the M33, M28, C 298 currently, and it appears that the M23 will be also when it is released to the US market. I searched and there is absolutely no information about the M23 available. I believe the ad you linked is the only info anywhere at this time.

    I agree, simply using a Purifier model is not the same as NAD and T+A are doing. They are licensing the tech and building their own amps from what I understand. The sound quality in the M33 and C 298 are both exceptional. This is exactly what every single review out there is saying. I also can attest for how wonderful the C 298 sounds.

    "Redefining the State of the Art with Purifi Technology
    NAD has introduced some of the most innovative amplifier technology in its nearly 50 year history, starting with the 3020 on through such cutting edge models as the 2200, the 208, and the M2. Now we are making the amazing new Eigentakt™ (self-clocking) technology, recently introduced to the world in the EISA Award winning Masters M33, available to a wider audience with the very affordable C 298. We are thrilled to provide this unprecedented level of performance. In short, a perfect companion for the C 658 BluOS Streaming DAC pre-amp."

    The C 298 won the most recent EISA award for amplifiers and it also recently won The Absolute Sounds Product of the Year Award, among other awards that have been bestowed to NAD for this amplifier.
    McIntosh C49, MR85, MC7100W, R778 | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM740ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQ Player) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | HeadAmp GS-X Mini | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000

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  19. #19
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Great discussion, thanks for all the information.

    I’ll add the C298 to the list. I’m not opposed to trying both out - M23 and C298
    Lumin X1 | Enleum 23r | Scansonic MB3.5 B
    Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 8 ICs | Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 Ethernet (L1->X1)
    Zu IBIS speaker cable
    Ayre L-x5e Line Filter | Shunyata Alpha ZiTron Digital, Transparent Premium Powerlink MM2 PCs
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  20. #20
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by jmusica View Post
    Great discussion, thanks for all the information.

    I’ll add the C298 to the list. I’m not opposed to trying both out - M23 and C298
    Nice... I doubt you can hear a difference between the two, however I would certainly be interested if you do get a chance to compare them.
    McIntosh C49, MR85, MC7100W, R778 | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM740ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQ Player) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | HeadAmp GS-X Mini | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  21. #21
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by RDSChicago View Post
    Why the M23 when it is practically the same as the NAD C298 (also a Purifi amp) but around $1,500 more expensive. Purifi is actually about to release a somewhat more powerful module, the 7040, which will put out 250 wpc into 8 ohms and stable down to 2 ohms vs. around 200 wpc in the version found in the M33/C298.

    Here’s info on the new Purifi module:

    Purifi presents Pure Sound amplifier module - Alpha Audio NET
    Dam that is way too much power for me . The C 298 is ALOT, probably way more than I need... but with each of the subs have 1000W of power, it certainly is not bad having some extra .
    McIntosh C49, MR85, MC7100W, R778 | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM740ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQ Player) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | HeadAmp GS-X Mini | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  22. #22
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    doubt you can hear a difference between the two
    Most likely true. Although I’m also not against spending more for aesthetics or build quality if there’s enough of a difference, or even holding value over time.
    Lumin X1 | Enleum 23r | Scansonic MB3.5 B
    Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 8 ICs | Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 Ethernet (L1->X1)
    Zu IBIS speaker cable
    Ayre L-x5e Line Filter | Shunyata Alpha ZiTron Digital, Transparent Premium Powerlink MM2 PCs
    Lumin L1 NAS | Qobuz

  23. #23
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by jmusica View Post
    Most likely true. Although I’m also not against spending more for aesthetics or build quality if there’s enough of a difference, or even holding value over time.
    I certainly wouldn't argue with that. I think build quality is about the same. One real difference is that the C 298 is a simple plain metal black box. That does not bother me a bit.
    McIntosh C49, MR85, MC7100W, R778 | KEF LS50 Meta w/S2, KC62 (x2) | Rega RP8, Ania Pro, NEO PSU | Technics SL-1500C | Audio Technica VM740ML | Hexmat Eclipse, Yellow Bird, Molekula, Molekula Mini | Pro-Ject VC-E | Falcon NW PC Server (Roon Core & HQ Player) | Microsoft Surface Pro 6 (Roon Controller) | Abyss Diana Phi | HeadAmp GS-X Mini | Astell&Kern SE200 | Oppo BDP105 | AudioQuest Niagara 1000

    “One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong”
    ― Neil deGrasse Tyson

  24. #24
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Maybe have a look at Coda, the amps are a good value.
    Cary Audio direct, you can try their gear with return option.

    I've sort of been looking in your price range, haven't heard these, waiting to maybe hear something at a show, here's what I've been looking at;
    Constellation 07
    MBL Corona 9800
    Bel Canto E1X
    Luxman has an amp around $10k, forgot the model#, maybe 700u

    Not sure, some of these may be ruled out due to your space constraint. The Bryston models with haf chassis front to bak is a good suggestion.
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB,
    Mark Levinson #526, 532h, JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
    All Clarus Crimson cabling, AC to binding post. Surgex
    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
    Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
    Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
    Parasound P6, Coda CSX, Artisan speakers

  25. #25
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    Maybe have a look at Coda, the amps are a good value.
    Cary Audio direct, you can try their gear with return option.

    I've sort of been looking in your price range, haven't heard these, waiting to maybe hear something at a show, here's what I've been looking at;
    Constellation 07
    MBL Corona 9800
    Bel Canto E1X
    Luxman has an amp around $10k, forgot the model#, maybe 700u

    Not sure, some of these may be ruled out due to your space constraint. The Bryston models with haf chassis front to bak is a good suggestion.
    I'd go with the Constellation....😉

  26. #26
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Took a look at the Constellation website for the "07" but don't see anything called that?
    Lumin X1 | Enleum 23r | Scansonic MB3.5 B
    Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 8 ICs | Wireworld Platinum Starlight 8 Ethernet (L1->X1)
    Zu IBIS speaker cable
    Ayre L-x5e Line Filter | Shunyata Alpha ZiTron Digital, Transparent Premium Powerlink MM2 PCs
    Lumin L1 NAS | Qobuz

  27. #27
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Sorry about that, the Inspiration 1.0
    From the front, the Inspiration Stereo 1.0 is a rectangular block of aluminum 8.5" high by 17 wide by 19" deep; it weighs 55 lbs. Its matte brushed-aluminum finish is relaxing to the eye and perfectly smooth to the touch—except for two ridges that gradually emerge from the surface as they ascend the height of the faceplate, then just as gradually disappear into the surface of the top plate as they run from front to back. The only control is a bar that runs most of the width of the front panel. This functions as a Power/Mute switch and has a single central LED. On each side panel are 9 rows and 22 columns of circular vents, offset from similar holes in a second panel under the first. This design creates a unique pattern of interlocking ports that provide ventilation for the internal heatsinks.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmusica View Post
    Took a look at the Constellation website for the "07" but don't see anything called that?
    Aurender ACS10 w/Audioquest Diamond USB,
    Mark Levinson #526, 532h, JBL 4367's
    Clearaudio Performance DC w/Maestro cart
    All Clarus Crimson cabling, AC to binding post. Surgex
    HT: Marantz AV8003, Linn 5125, JBL SAM3ha, Revel s30,
    SVS PC13 Ultra
    Transparent, Analysis Plus & Tributaries. PS Audio filtering
    Sony XBR-75X940D & BDP
    Parasound P6, Coda CSX, Artisan speakers

  28. #28
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by jmusica View Post
    Would like to try out some amps around a Lumin X1 and Scansonic MB3.5 B. Will do my best to describe my constraints and preferences. Just looking for any subjective thoughts or input, if you're game.

    • Budget ~<$10k, new or used.
    • Form factor is important. Has to be less than 18" deep, around 16" is ideal (width/height don't matter as much). Weight <80 max, prefer <60.
    • Prefer a stereo amp in one chassis, but would consider monoblocks.
    • Not looking for an integrated, but would consider if all else is right. Simpler the better. Lumin out to the amp; I have no other input needs.
    • I listen mostly low-mid volumes, sitting about 9 feet from the front plane of the speakers. Mostly jazz, classic rock, classical (baroque, orchestral, piano), alt-country, world/eclectic. Nothing too heavy really, beyond the occasional Sabbath or Rush disc.
    • I like part of @joeinid 's description of the Enleum: "an open, lit from within sound". Also: big soundstage, placement/separation precision and air, speed, a good thwack of a drum hit, vocals like they're in the room. Organic and musical.


    On the list for possible rotating in:
    Enleum 23r, Bakoon 41/51, NAD M23, T+A Amp 200, Ayre VX-R, Soulution 311, something Gryphon

    (yeah, I suspect these may be very different from each other and some may be challenging to find in budget)
    I think Hear Here has very sensible suggested the NAD M23 or the C298. Both of these are based on Purifi "Eigentakt" class D technology developed by Bruno Putzeys and collaborators.

    I went from a Pass amp, (X150.5), to a Purify 1ET400A module-based stereo amp and was frankly shocked at the increase transparency and dynamics I heard with the Purifi amp.

    I my case I went with the bargain-basement VTV Purfi stereo amp with VTV buffers and Sparkos SS3602 op amps. (Advice if you're considering the VTV Purifi: don't get the Hypex buffers which sound bad in the high treble.)
    ~ Bill

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  29. #29
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    I think Hear Here has very sensible suggested the NAD M23 or the C298. Both of these are based on Purifi "Eigentakt" class D technology developed by Bruno Putzeys and collaborators.
    In fact, I'd hesitate in suggesting the new M23 as the M33 all-in-one offers so much better value for money. Both share the Purifi Eigentakt Class D amp module, but in the case of the M23, that's it.

    With the M33 you get a streamer, preamp, phono stage, DAC, Dirac Live room correction, a very nice front panel touch screen and a great IR remote control - and you can still use it as a simple power amp of course.

    UK prices - M23 £3K - M33 £4K. An aweful more for the extra £1000 - much less in fact as you save on a bundle of cables too. However if you only need a power amp, or want to bridge your amps, then the £1K saving could find another home I'm sure!
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by Hear Here View Post
    In fact, I'd hesitate in suggesting the new M23 as the M33 all-in-one offers so much better value for money. Both share the Purifi Eigentakt Class D amp module, but in the case of the M23, that's it.

    With the M33 you get a streamer, preamp, phono stage, DAC, Dirac Live room correction, a very nice front panel touch screen and a great IR remote control - and you can still use it as a simple power amp of course.

    UK prices - M23 £3K - M33 £4K. An aweful more for the extra £1000 - much less in fact as you save on a bundle of cables too. However if you only need a power amp, or want to bridge your amps, then the £1K saving could find another home I'm sure!
    I can only agree that the NAD M33 is the better value being a remarkably inclusive one-box solution. But of course it's up to the OP to decide whether that's what he wants.
    ~ Bill

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  31. #31

    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Query whether NAD will come out with a model using the newer, more powerful Purifi module?

  32. #32
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by RDSChicago View Post
    Query whether NAD will come out with a model using the newer, more powerful Purifi module?
    Here's a YouTube where for DIY Hifi Life on the subject of the more powerful module. Starting viewing at 2:40 ...


    Don't know about NAD but apparently VTV is experimenting with the new module -- 950 watts @ 2 ohms, (gulp ).

    Question I have is how many people really need that kind of power? Not, I suspect, the vast majority.
    ~ Bill

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  33. #33

    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    I sold my Purifi Eigentakt in anticipation of buying the more powerful version when it is released. My speakers reportedly like gobs of high-current power.

  34. #34
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    Here's a YouTube where for DIY Hifi Life on the subject of the more powerful module. Starting viewing at 2:40 ...


    Don't know about NAD but apparently VTV is experimenting with the new module -- 950 watts @ 2 ohms, (gulp ).

    Question I have is how many people really need that kind of power? Not, I suspect, the vast majority.
    What is it at 8 ohm ..?
    * An Audiophile is only as old as his tweeters ..!!

  35. #35
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by RDSChicago View Post
    I sold my Purifi Eigentakt in anticipation of buying the more powerful version when it is released. My speakers reportedly like gobs of high-current power.
    How does the Purifi compare to say Bel Canto Black series ..??
    * An Audiophile is only as old as his tweeters ..!!

  36. #36
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by a.wayne View Post
    What is it at 8 ohm ..?
    Apparently the 1ET7040SA puts out 240 watts into 8 ohms ... probably that's pretty conservative though.
    ~ Bill

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  37. #37
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    I'm going to have a chance to hear the Bel Canto E1X power amp in my system this weekend. If all goes as planned I'll start a new thread to share my experience. Looks like they are using a version of Ngore. I'm keeping an open mind but part of me suspects it will still have the BC house sound.

    I've yet to hear pure Class D that I liked. I do like what is called Class G which Devialet uses, amongst others now. I said "that I liked, I should have said that I cared to keep for my personal use.
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  38. #38
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    I liked the Devialet mono’s more than any class D i have heard myself ...!!!
    * An Audiophile is only as old as his tweeters ..!!

  39. #39
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    I like the Purifier amplifiers and feel they are vastly better than any other Class D I have heard. I have owned five different ones. I have not heard the Bel Canto E1X but I have owned a lower model. I know the E1X uses a modified version of the Ncore. Both NAD (on all of their Purifier amps) and T+A are offering amplifiers that they licensed the tech, however from my understanding they designed the amplifier with Purifier technology but their own upgrades.
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  40. #40
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    I agree with you Randy the Purifi has been the best of the Class D amps I have. I still think well designed Class AB has it beat in sound quality. Class D probably has some room to improve with new design ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Myers View Post
    I like the Purifier amplifiers and feel they are vastly better than any other Class D I have heard. I have owned five different ones. I have not heard the Bel Canto E1X but I have owned a lower model. I know the E1X uses a modified version of the Ncore. Both NAD (on all of their Purifier amps) and T+A are offering amplifiers that they licensed the tech, however from my understanding they designed the amplifier with Purifier technology but their own upgrades.
    Marty

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  41. #41
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Though I am a big fan of Bakoon…with the current speakers, you might want to demo an amp with some ballz too. Not just for the loud factor but for the ease and effortlessness that can come from that. Of your list, I think an Essence is a very attractive one..even at the very low wattage of 50.

    Edit: forgot about your budget. Can probably find a Diablo 120 and maybe a 300 if you’re patient. Much different sound than your Enleum now though…I came from a Diablo 120 and it did very well with a neutral speaker before, TAD ME-1.
    _______________

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  42. #42
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by nc42acc View Post
    I agree with you Randy the Purifi has been the best of the Class D amps I have. I still think well designed Class AB has it beat in sound quality. Class D probably has some room to improve with new design ideas.
    I agree, with the exception of pricing. What I mean is that a Class AB amp certainly can out distance a Purifier if budget is not a consideration. However, if budget does come in to play, I doubt there is an AB that can stay with the Purifier in its price level.
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  43. #43
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by Low325 View Post
    Though I am a big fan of Bakoon…with the current speakers, you might want to demo an amp with some ballz too. Not just for the loud factor but for the ease and effortlessness that can come from that. Of your list, I think an Essence is a very attractive one..even at the very low wattage of 50.

    Edit: forgot about your budget. Can probably find a Diablo 120 and maybe a 300 if you’re patient. Much different sound than your Enleum now though…I came from a Diablo 120 and it did very well with a neutral speaker before, TAD ME-1.
    If I wait long enough I bet I'll find an Essence I can manage, if I have to stretch the budget a bit.

    How about the Bakoon 41 or 51? The Enleum really sounds great. And I'm somewhat familiar with the sound of higher-powered class A amps, my last amps were Ayre mono-blocks, and before that the Ayre integrated, altho my speakers at the time probably didn't do them justice.
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  44. #44
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by Low325 View Post
    Though I am a big fan of Bakoon…with the current speakers, you might want to demo an amp with some ballz too. Not just for the loud factor but for the ease and effortlessness that can come from that. Of your list, I think an Essence is a very attractive one..even at the very low wattage of 50.

    Edit: forgot about your budget. Can probably find a Diablo 120 and maybe a 300 if you’re patient. Much different sound than your Enleum now though…I came from a Diablo 120 and it did very well with a neutral speaker before, TAD ME-1.
    Note that the speaker manufacturer recommends > 50 watts
    Rob
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by rbbert View Post
    Note that the speaker manufacturer recommends > 50 watts
    Yep, saw it. Enleum is probably close at 5ohms but a little less. Still, sounds great to me. I did query Soo In if he thought the speakers' sensitivity would be ok with his amp and he believed it would be fine, and my ears tell me it is. I had a couple amps before the Enleum with more power that didn't sound as good to me, but there's a lot of variables of course.

    I'll definitely be auditioning 2 or 3 more higher powered amps when it becomes possible.
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody View Post
    I'm going to have a chance to hear the Bel Canto E1X power amp in my system this weekend. If all goes as planned I'll start a new thread to share my experience. Looks like they are using a version of Ngore.
    Bet it sounds bloody good

  47. #47
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    I would consider a pair of Van Alstine DVA 225 monoblocks. They are small and pack a punch. I did a review of them on the AC forum for Frank. There are 2 excellent pro reviews. They only have XLR inputs. Frank has a 30 day money back guaranty to there is no risk.

    Audio by Van Alstine DVA M225 Monoblock Amplifiers | REVIEW - Part-Time Audiophile

    Audio by Van Alstine DVA M225 Mono Block Solid State Amplifiers — Audiophilia

    These are very dynamic, full, rich sounding monoblocks with lots of detail, bass slam and musicality. They present a huge and deep sound stage. They are 9" wide and 10" deep, Class AB. They gave my Pass X250 a run for the money.

    DVA M225 Monoblock Solid State Amplifier – Audio by Van Alstine

    And do not let the price fool you. They would sell for 2 or 3 times that if sold in stores. Franks gear is also built to last and the customer service is excellent. Frank always answers his phone.
    My Gear- Mains System-Pass X250 amp, BAT VK-51se preamp, Luxman DA-06 DAC, Magnepan 1.6's, Thorens TD-145 TT, Dual Martin Logan Subs, Vintage Luxman T-110 Tuner, Other systems- Parasound A21 amp,Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid tube DAC and Preamp, Magnepan MMG's, Monitor Audio S1's, PSB B6's, Def Tech Pro Monitor 1000's, Velodyne sub, Adcom GFR-700 AVR, Music Hall 25.2 modified CDP, Cables by Cardas Parsec, AQ Columbia DBS 72v, Wire World.

  48. #48
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    You’re probably going to get more of the same from the 23R if you try the bigger ones! The important part if you like Enleum/Bakoons presentation, then place the 23R on long term or use it to swap out when you want a different flavor. Its really that good, imo. Soon In did say his amps sound mostly the same, but the bigger ones might sound a bit more relaxed when I inquired before.

    Also, I knew a couple of folks that did the all the Bakoons on home demo, and also felt pretty confident all of them sounded relatively the same…beautiful. . There are also the Japan Bakoons too that seem to get refreshed every couple years or so.

    I could’ve probably just did with the 23R and my Devilles and pocketed some cash, but I’m human, I want more power even if for no other apparent gain, haha.

    If you are still kind of “merry-go-rounding”, I still think the new Gryphon sound is worth a listen to in ones system if they are at that budget and level. The X1 into the Essence have garnered good vibes from other folks…

    Class D GAN from AGD is picking up some popularity….! They have a pretty good trial period. I’m not affiliated in any way btw.

    The more and more I listen to my Bakoon AMP-51R, I feel like I’ve found my anchor for amplification.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmusica View Post
    If I wait long enough I bet I'll find an Essence I can manage, if I have to stretch the budget a bit.

    How about the Bakoon 41 or 51? The Enleum really sounds great. And I'm somewhat familiar with the sound of higher-powered class A amps, my last amps were Ayre mono-blocks, and before that the Ayre integrated, altho my speakers at the time probably didn't do them justice.
    _______________

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  49. #49
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Those DVAs are a good recommendation too. Flies under radar and one I meant to demo. I was waiting for his pre/dac but my plans moved faster than I anticipated.

    Lots of power, XLR, monos, what’s not to like….oh and they’re relative small too.
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  50. #50
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    Re: Help build my list of amps to try

    Quote Originally Posted by Mechnutt View Post
    I would consider a pair of Van Alstine DVA 225 monoblocks. They are small and pack a punch. I did a review of them on the AC forum for Frank. There are 2 excellent pro reviews. They only have XLR inputs. Frank has a 30 day money back guaranty to there is no risk.

    Audio by Van Alstine DVA M225 Monoblock Amplifiers | REVIEW - Part-Time Audiophile

    Audio by Van Alstine DVA M225 Mono Block Solid State Amplifiers — Audiophilia

    These are very dynamic, full, rich sounding monoblocks with lots of detail, bass slam and musicality. They present a huge and deep sound stage. They are 9" wide and 10" deep, Class AB. They gave my Pass X250 a run for the money.

    DVA M225 Monoblock Solid State Amplifier – Audio by Van Alstine

    And do not let the price fool you. They would sell for 2 or 3 times that if sold in stores. Franks gear is also built to last and the customer service is excellent. Frank always answers his phone.
    This looks appealing.
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